BETTER OFF.
NEIL: HE’S OPTIMISTIC THAT THESE
DIFFERENCES COULD BE PUT ASIDE
BUT MY NEXT GUEST HAS HIS DOUBTS
ANDREW YANG WAS A FASCINATING
PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE 2020
AMONG THE MOST FASCINATING
I NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO
BECAUSE HE SPOKE OUTSIDE THE DOT
S AND HE UNITED A LOT OF
REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WITH
IDEAS THAT DIDN’T STICK WITH
LABELS BUT THE PROBLEM IN THIS
ENVIRONMENT IS WE TEND TO
STICK WITH LABELS, ANDREW YANG
JOINS US RIGHT NOW, THE FORMER
PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN 2020,
THAT IS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF
BUZZ, RAN FOR NEW YORK MAYOR,
DIDN’T WIN, BUT HE QUIT THE RACE
WHEN IT WAS LOOKING LIKE HE
WOULDN’T RATHER THAN DRAG THINGS
OUT, DELIGHTED TO HAVE HIM RIGHT
NOW, ANDREW GOOD TO HAVE YOU.
>> NEIL GREAT TO BE HERE THANKS
FOR HAVING ME.
NEIL: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF WE’VE
ALWAYS HAD BICKERING WITHIN
PARTIES, I DON’T WANT TO
OVERSTATE IT BUT IT SEEMS LIKE
THEY’RE APART WITHIN EACH PARTY
AND I’M JUST WONDERING WITHIN
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, DID YOU
QUIT ON IT OR DID IT QUIT ON
YOU?
>> [LAUGHTER]
WELL THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS
GOING ON THAT AMERICANS, FIRST
POLARIZATION BETWEEN THE PARTIES
IS AT RECORD HIGHS, AND IT’S
DRIVING POLITICAL STRESS AND
ANXIETY, MAKING AMERICANS FEEL
LIKE OUR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN
AREN’T EVEN LIKE ON
THE SAME PAGE OR IN THE SAME
NATION, AND THEN WITHIN EACH
PARTY, YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF
FACTIONS THAT, IN MY VIEW, OUGHT
TO COMPRISE SEPARATE PARTIES
INSTEAD OF TRYING TO HAVE THEM
UNDER THE SAME TENT, WHERE IF
YOU HAD A GENUINE MULTI-PARTY
SYSTEM IN AMERICA, AND MY VIEW
THERE BE FIVE PARTIES,
PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS, MODERATE
DEMOCRATS, A GROUP OF CENTRISTS,
MODERATE REPUBLICANS AND
CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS AND
I’LL SUGGEST THAT SYSTEM WOULD
WORK BETTER.
NEIL: MORE LIKE A PARLIAMENTARY
SYSTEM WHERE
PARTIES HAVE TO FORM ALLIANCES,
OF COURSE I’M GOING TOO FAR
THERE, BUT IS THE PROBLEM THE
TWO PARTY SYSTEM AS WE KNOW
IT IS JUST GETTING A LITTLE LONG
IN THE TEETH?
>> IT REALLY IS AND IF YOU GO
WAY BACK, NEIL, TO OUR FOUNDING
FATHERS, THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE
WANTED A TWO-PARTY SYSTEM.
JOHN ADAMS SAID TWO PARTIES BE A
GREAT EVIL.
GEORGE WASHINGTON WAS ANTI-
PARTISAN FOR GOOD REASON.
THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM IS AN
INVENTION THAT NOW HAS RUN
ITS COURSE, BUT WE HAVEN’T BEEN
ABLE TO MOVE ON FROM IT, EVEN
THOUGH WE CAN SEE THAT IT IS NOT
WORKING AND HAS NOT BEEN WORKING
FOR QUITE SOMETIME.
NEIL: BUT YOU KNOW I WAS
THINKING WHEN YOU WERE COMING
OUR INFLECTION POINTS WHERE IT’S
DEEMED THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM
FAILS AND A NEW PARTY EMERGES,
ABRAHAM LINCOLN WHAT BECAME
KNOWN AS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
BUT IT’S RARE.
WHY IS IT SO RARE?
>> IT’S RARE BECAUSE THE DUOPO
LY SUPPRESSES
COMPETITION.
IF YOU’RE AN INDEPENDENT, RIGHT
NOW INDEPENDENTS OUT NUMBER THE
REPUBLICANS OR DEMOCRATS.
LET’S SAY YOU’RE A LIBERTARIAN.
IF YOU TRY AND CONTEST A
PARTICULAR RACE, YOU FIND
YOURSELF SHUT OUT.
THERE ARE THESE PRIMARIES THAT
CONTROL THE PROCESS WHERE IT
DISENFRANCHISES LITERALLY
MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, 10% OF
AMERICANS ARE DECIDING 83% OF
RACES WHICH MEANS THE OTHER 90%
ARE ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN.
NEIL: YOU HAD THE TROUBLE OF NOT
BEING A WELL-FINANCED CANDIDATE
SO YOU TOOK ON LIKE PEOPLE WERE
REALLY INTRIGUED BY YOU, BUT THE
SYSTEM, THE MONEY CANDIDATE
TENDS, NOT ALL THE TIME, BUT I’D
SAY LIKE 99% OF THE TIME TO HAVE
THE ENGINE AN IUORIO AND NEW
HAMPSHIRE AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT
, IT WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT
FOR JOE BIDEN WHERE HE GOT HIS
ABOUT TOGETHER, I THINK IN SOUTH
CAROLINA, BUT IS IT THE
STRUCTURE OF THE PRIMARY
SYSTEM THAT DOES IT, OR IS IT
JUST THE WAY ITS EVOLVED?
>> THE PRIMARY SYSTEM DOES
ADVANTAGE CERTAIN CANDIDATES AND
IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY YOU CAN
TELL THAT THERE’S A BIT OF A
THUMB ON THE SCALE BEING APPLIED
FROM FOLKS IN D.C. VERY OFTEN.
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS ACTUALLY
A LITTLE BIT MORE OPEN, WHERE
WHOEVER WINS THE MOST VOTES ENDS
UP IN WASHINGTON BUT YOU SAW IT
WITH THE WAY THAT THE DNC SAND
BAGGED BERNIE IN
BOTH OF THE LAST CYCLES THEY
WERE LIKE LET’S TRY AND HAVE THE
RIGHT CANDIDATE WIN.
NEIL: BUT BERNIE MIGHT BE
GETTING THE ADVANTAGE, RIGHT?
WHAT YOU HEAR AGAINST BIDEN IS
HE CAMPAIGNED AS A MODERATE BUT
PROGRESSIVES ARE CALLING SHOTS
AND BERNIE SANDERS IS LEADING
THE PARADE.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
>> AGAIN IN MY VIEW THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY SHOULD
PROBABLY BE TWO SEPARATE PARTIES
AT THIS POINT AND YOU CAN SEE
THE TENSIONS WITHIN THEM AND
YOU CAN SAY WELL, TRYING TO GET
THEM IN THE SAME TENT MIGHT
FACILITATE THEM WORKING TOGETHER
, AND IN MY VIEW THE
REAL PROBLEM IS THERE ARE A
NUMBER OF MODERATE REPUBLICANS
WHO WOULD SUPPORT ASPECTS OF,
FOR EXAMPLE, THE INFRASTRUCTURE
PACKAGE, BUT BECAUSE OF
POLITICAL PRESSURES, THERE’S
SUCH A FISHER THAT IF THEY
CROSSOVER THEN THEY WIND UP
GETTING CRITICIZED BY TRUMP,
EVEN THOUGH HISTORICALLY, THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS BEEN
FOR REBUILDING BRIDGES AND ROADS
NEIL: YEAH, IN FACT I REMEMBER
DISTINCTLY PRESIDENT TRUMP
WANTING --
>> WANTED TO REBUILD BRIDGES
AND ROADS.
NEIL: WANTED TO GO BIG AND NOW
HE’S CRITICIZING THAT IT WAS A
THIRD O OF THAT BUT BE THAT AS
IT MAY HE MIGHT RUN AGAIN,
LOOKS LIKE HE IS, AND HE MIGHT
WIN, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?
>> I THINK THAT TRUMP IS
PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE
REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, AND I
THINK THAT JOE BIDEN IS PROBABLY
GOING TO BE THE DEMOCRATIC
NOMINEE AND I’M GOING TO SUGGEST
THAT A LOT OF AMERICANS MIGHT
WANT SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT
DIFFERENT, THAT THIS MIGHT NOT
BE A MOVIE YOU WANTED THE SEQUAL
TO.
I MEAN, IT’S PRETTY SIMILAR TO
THE FIRST MOVIE AT LEAST FROM
THE BEGINNING.
NEIL: BUT WHY DON’T THIRD PARTY
CANDIDATES I REMEMBER YOU AND I
CHATTING DURING THE BREAK, THERE
WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WATCHED
YOU AND MARVELED YOU IN DEBATES
AND VERY SKILLFUL, AND SAID YOU
KNOW, I’D VOTE FOR HIM, BUT, YOU
KNOW?
IS IT A WASTED VOTE, DOES HE
HAVE A CHANCE?
I ALWAYS THOUGHT PEOPLE WHO
ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT VOTED THAT
WAY, JUST AS WHEN WE HAD THIRD
PARTY CANDIDATES IN PRESIDENTIAL
RACES, REMEMBER JOHN ANDERSON IN
1980 I GUESS IT WAS, I LIKE HIM
BUT HE DOESN’T HAVE A CHANCE, OR
WHETHER YOU LIKE OR DISLIKE, I
LIKE HIM BUT HE DOESN’T HAVE A
CHANCE, RALPH NADER, LIKE HIM,
HE DOESN’T HAVE A CHANCE THAT
MORE AND MORE PEOPLE THOUGHT
THAT THAT PERSON WAS ON EQUAL
FOOTING IT BE DIFFERENT.
>> IT’S ONE REASON I APPRECIATE
YOU SO MUCH, NEIL BECAUSE A LOT
OF THAT HAPPENS IN THE MEDIA,
AND I THINK THE MOST PROMINENT
RECENT EXAMPLE IS ROSS PEROT IN
1992, AND THE WAY WE MAKE THIS
HAPPEN, IN REAL LIFE, RIGHT
NOW IN THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA IS SHIFT TO NON-PARTISAN
OPEN PRIMARIES SO THAT ANYONE
CAN RUN FOR ANY POSITION YOU
COULD VOTE FOR ANYONE YOU WANT,
AND HAVE A PROCESS THAT GETS RID
OF THIS SPOILER EFFECT WHERE
RIGHT NOW, THE KUDULE THAT GETS
USED IS IF YOU VOTE FOR THIS
PERSON IT SCREWS IT UP
FOR THIS PERSON.
NEIL: EXACTLY.
>> SO THAT’S AN ARCHAIC VOTING
SYSTEM.
IF YOU SHIFT TO SOMETHING MORE
MODERN, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE,, YOU
CAN VOTE FOR WHOMEVER YOU WANT,
LEAD WITH THE LIBERTARIAN AND
THEN PUT THE REPUBLICANS SECOND
AND NO ONE CAN ACCUSE THE
LIBERTARIAN OF MESSING
ANYTHING UP.
ALL IT TAKES IS A MODERNIZATION
OF THE VOTING SYSTEM WHICH IS
WHAT MY PARTY THE FORWARD PARTY
IS NOW CHAMPIONING.
THIS IS A MOVEMENT TO ENABLE
INDEPENDENTS TO HAVE A SEAT AT
THE TABLE.
NEIL: AND TO GET EVERYONE IN.
YOU KNOW, TO GET EVERYONE INTO
THE PROCESS.
>> YES, AND THE GREAT THING,
NEIL, IS THAT EVEN IF THE SAME
PEOPLE WIN, THEIR INCENTIVES TO
BE BETTER IF YOU HAD NON-PARTY
SAN OPEN PRIMARIES BECAUSE RIGHT
NOW THE FACT IS YOU’LL ANSWER TO
THE 10% OF THE MOST PARTISAN
VOTERS THAT CONTROL WHETHER YOU
GET RE-ELECTED.
YOU’RE NOT ACTUALLY DELIVERING
FOR 51% OF THE POPULATION, IT’S
JUST A 10%.
AS A BUSINESS PERSON, THOSE ARE
BAD INCENTIVES LIKE YOU WANT
INCENTIVES WHERE IT’S LIKE LOOK
IF I MAKE 51% OF YOU HAPPY THEN
I COME BACK.
NEIL: YOU NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT
IT WHEN YOU WERE RUNNING, BUT
I’VE ALWAYS THOUGHT OUR COUNTRY
WAS OPEN TO AN AFRICAN AMERICAN
PRESIDENT, OUR COUNTRY WAS OPEN
TO A FEMALE VICE PRESIDENT.
ASIAN AMERICAN THING?
NOT SO MUCH.
DO YOU THINK THAT WAS AN
IMPEDIMENT?
>> WHAT’S INTERESTING, NEIL, IS
I SPENT YEARS CAMPAIGNING IN
IOWA, OHIO, NEW HAMPSHIRE, OTHER
PARTS OF THE COUNTRY AND I NEVER
FELT THE LEAST BIT UNWELL COME
AS A RESULT OF WHO I AM BEING
ASIAN AMERICAN, TO THE EXTENT
THAT I THINK THAT THERE WAS LIKE
SOME KIND OF DIFFERENT TREATMENT
, IT WAS IN THE MEDIA,
TRULY.
NEIL: EXACTLY RIGHT.
YOU’RE EXACTLY RIGHT.
AMERICANS ARE MUCH MORE OPEN
ABOUT THIS SORT OF THING THAN
THE TRADITIONAL MEDIA IS.
ON THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT.
>> YES, I HAD THOUSANDS OF
INTERACTIONS WITH AMERICANS AND
THEY WERE VERY VERY OPEN TO MY
CAMPAIGN, THEY WERE OPEN TO A
DIFFERENT FORM OF LEADERSHIP AND
THEY SAW IN ME A FAIRLY REGULAR
PERSON WHO WANTED TO DO RIGHT
FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES TO
THE EXTENT THERE WAS A FIXATION
ON RACE THAT ENDED UP BEING AN
IMPEDIMENT TO MY CAMPAIGN IT
WAS MORE LIKELY TO COME FROM
CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF THE NATIONAL
MEDIA.
NEIL: DID THAT BOTHER YOU THOUGH
AND THAT KIND OF VIEW ESCALATED
AFTER YOU THINK ABOUT IT COVID,
IT’S HARD TO SAY IN THIS DAY AND
AGE THAT CONTINUES BUT IT DID,
BUT TO YOUR POINT, IN THE MEDIA.
>> ONE OF THE INTERESTING
THINGS, NEIL, IS THAT WHEN
YOU’RE OUT IN THE ARENA, YOU
DON’T WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE
REFEREES OR WHAT NOT.
[LAUGHTER]
NEIL: I’D NEVER TAKE THE BLAME.
>> NO, SO, YOU KNOW, I WAS
ALWAYS JUST TRYING TO MAKE MY
CASE DIRECTLY TO THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE AND I WAS GRATEFUL FOR
THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WERE
OPEN TO IT, REALLY, AND I SAW
THAT EVERYWHERE I WENT.
NEIL: AND I THINK THAT MOST OF
THE AMERICANS, THAT IS THE CASE.
WHAT ABOUT YOUR FUTURE,
OBVIOUSLY SUCCESSFUL
ENTREPRENEUR, A LOT OF THE IDEAS
YOU HATCHED ARE COMING TO
REALITY IN THIS MEASURE BY THE
WAY.
YOU MUST TAKE SOME PRIDE IN THAT
WHETHER PEOPLE LIKE IT OR NOT,
RIGHT?
>> YEAH, I DO TAKE A LOT OF
PRIDE IN THE FACT THAT THE IDEAS
THAT ANIMATED MY CAMPAIGN ARE
NOW VERY VERY MAINSTREAM AND
AMERICA THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO
MAINSTREAM NOW, OPEN PRIMARIES
SO THAT DIFFERENT PEOPLE CAN
VOTE IN EVERY SINGLE RACE.
WE GET THAT RIGHT, THEN ALL OF A
SUDDEN --
NEIL: HOW WOULD THAT BE IF YOU
HAVE A PRIMARY NIGHT AND
DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS AND
EVERYONE CAN VOTE, EVERYONE CAN
DO THAT.
HOW IS THAT, HOW DOES EACH PARTY
THEN, OR IS IT EACH PARTY,
DECIDING ON IT’S NOMINEE?
HOW WOULD THAT GO?
>> I’LL USE NEW YORK AS AN
EXAMPLE.
NEW YORK IS A ONE-PARTY TOWN.
SO IF YOU’RE AN IN OR
REPUBLICAN YOU’RE SHUT OUT,
BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY
HAPPENS WITHOUT YOU AND THEN BY
THE TIME IT GETS TO THE GENERAL
IT’S ALREADY, YOU KNOW, A DONE
DEAL, SO IF YOU HAD OPEN PRIMAR
IES IN THE NEW YORK
MAYORAL RACE, FOR EXAMPLE, THEN
INDEPENDENTS AND REPUBLICANS
COULD VOTE FOR THAT CANDIDATE
AND THEN EVEN IF I DIDN’T AGREE
WITH YOU I’D HAVE TO HEAR YOU
OUT, YOUR POINT OF VIEW WOULD
GET INCORPORATED.
NEIL: YOU’D BE IN THAT BUNCH AS
WELL AS A CURTIS LEE, WHERE
EVERYONE IS IN THE MIX AND
EVERYONE WOULD HAVE A CHANCE TO
STATE HIS OR HER CASE.
>> YEAH, AND IT WOULD BOOST
TURNOUT, BECAUSE I GUARANTEE AND
I MET THEM A LOT OF INDEPENDENTS
AND REPUBLICANS ARE CHECKED OUT
BECAUSE THEY ARE LIKE HEY I
DON’T HAVE A MEANINGFUL SAY AND
DO YOU KNOW WHAT?
THEY’RE RIGHT.
IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE COUNTRY,
83% OF THESE RACES ARE BEING
DECIDED IN THE PARTY PRIMARY AND
IT’S ONE REASON WHY SO MANY OF
US ARE SO CYNICAL ABOUT POLITICS
BECAUSE WE KNOW OUR VOTES DON’T
MATTER SO YOU MAKE THAT CHANGE
ALL OF A SUDDEN THE INCENTIVES
OF OUR LEADERS WOULD IMPROVE
OVERNIGHT.
NEIL: PRESIDENT BIDEN DIDN’T
HAVE A ROLE FOR YOU IN HIS
ADMINISTRATION, SEEMED LIKE
ALMOST ALL OF THE OTHER
CANDIDATES GOT SOMETHING OUT OF
IT.
>> I ENDED UP RUNNING FOR THE
MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY.
NEIL: I HEARD.
>> AND NOW, I’M INCREDIBLY
EXCITED ABOUT THIS FORWARD PARTY
MOVEMENT THAT WE’RE BUILDING
BECAUSE THIS IS --
NEIL: YOU GOING TO RUN AGAIN?
>> I’M GOING TO DO WHATEVER I
CAN TO HELP THE COUNTRY, NEIL.
RIGHT NOW, I AM CONVINCED THAT
THE BEST WAY I CAN HELP IS BY
TRYING TO FREE US FROM THE
TYRANNY OF HIS DUOPOLY THAT
WE CAN SEE IS CRUMBLING AROUND
US BUT IT CAN’T GET OUT OF THE
WAY IN TIME.
NEIL: WELL PUT, ANDREW YANG,
FORMER NEW YORK CITY CANDIDATE,
PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE WANTED TO
GET PAST YOUR BLINDERS WHEREVER
YOU ARE POLITICALLY AND JUST