A LOT OF HEADLINES EARLIER
TODAY ABOUT PROGRESS BEING MADE
IN PEACE TALKS BETWEEN RUSSIA
AND UKRAINE, WITH EVEN RUSSIA'S
FOREIGN MINISTER SAYING TODAY
THERE WAS SOME HOPE OF A
BREAKTHROUGH IN TALKS.
BUT RUSSIA'S LEADER HAD SOME
DIFFERENT THOUGHTS.
VLADIMIR PUTIN STRUCK A DEFIANT
AND DARK TONE, SAYING THAT HIS
SPECIAL OPERATION WAS DEVELOPED
ESPECIALLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH
PREAPPROVE PLANS.
HE CLAIMED THE INVASION WAS A
FIGHT FOR RUSSIA'S SOVEREIGNTY
AND SAID THE WEST IS TRYING TO
SPLIT RUSSIA INTO PARTS.
THE AUTHORITARIAN LEADER WANTED
TO MAKE SURE HE WAS CLEAR.
QUOTE, WE WILL NEVER ALLOW
UKRAINE TO BECOME A STRONGHOLD
OF AGGRESSIVE ACTIONS AGAINST
OUR COUNTRY, AND QUOTE.
HE ALSO DELIVERED THE STARKEST
THREATS TO RUSSIANS WHO OPPOSE
HIM AND HIS SO-CALLED SPECIAL
MILITARY OPERATION.
PUTIN SAID, QUOTE, THE RUSSIAN
PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO
DISTINGUISH TRUE PATRIOTS FROM
SCUM AND TRAITORS AND SIMPLY
SPIT THEM OUT LIKE A FLY THAT
ACCIDENTALLY FLEW INTO THEIR
MOUTHS.
I AM CONVINCED THAT SUCH A
NATURAL AND NECESSARY SELF
PURIFICATION OF SOCIETY WILL
ONLY STRENGTHEN OUR COUNTRY.
THERE WAS STARTLING COMMENTS
COME AFTER THE U.S. SENATE FORM
RELATIONS COMMITTEE HELD A
HEARING YESTERDAY ON COMBATTING
AUTHORITARIANISM.
THE COMMITTEE CALLED THE
PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING
HISTORIAN ANNE APPLEBAUM, AN
EXPERT ON AUTHORITARIANISM, TO
TESTIFY.
SHE SAID THAT THE U.S. NEEDS TO
DO MORE TO COMBAT RUSSIA'S
AUTHORITARIAN LEADER.
>> WESTERN SANCTIONS ALONE HAVE
NO IMPACT ON AUTOCRATS WHO KNOW
THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO TRADE
WITH ONE ANOTHER, ACCUSATIONS
FROM HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS
MEAN NOTHING TO DICTATORS.
--
INSTEAD OF ALWAYS REACTING TO
THE LATEST OUTRAGE, WE NEED TO
CHANGE THE RULES OF THE GAME
ALTOGETHER.
>> JOINING ME NOW IS ANNE
APPLEBAUM, A STAFF WRITER AT
"THE ATLANTIC" AND PULITZER
PRIZE-WINNING HISTORIAN.
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH, US
MS. APPLEBAUM.
YOU SAID CHANGE THE RULES OF
THE GAME, THAT WE HAVE TO STOP
BEING REACTIVE.
IN THIS CONTEXT OF THE RUSSIAN
INVASION OF UKRAINE, HOW WOULD
YOU HAVE SEEN IT GOING
DIFFERENTLY AND HOW, IN THE
MIDDLE OF THE GAME, DO YOU
CHANGE?
>> SO, THERE IS THE FAMOUS
IRISH JOKE ABOUT, IF YOU WANT
TO GET TOO DONE LEERY YOU DON'T
START FROM HERE.
SO I WOULD HAVE PUSHBACK NOT
JUST AGAINST RUSSIAN
KLEPTOCRACY BUT ALSO RUSSIAN
KLEPTOCRACY MANY YEARS AGO.
WE COULD HAVE CHANGED OUR LAWS
TO MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO BUY
AND SELL PROPERTY ANONYMOUSLY
IN OUR COUNTRY AND IN OTHER
COUNTRIES, WE COULD'VE THOUGHT
DIFFERENTLY ABOUT HOW WE
COMMUNICATE THE RUSSIANS AND
OTHERS.
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WAR, IT'S
A MUCH MORE DIFFICULT PROSPECT,
THOUGH I DO HOPE THAT THIS WAR
IS GOING TO GIVE US SOME IDEAS
FOR HOW TO PROCEED IN FUTURE.
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WAR WOULD
I THINK WE NEED TO DO IS CHANGE
OUR THINKING.
I THINK THAT'S MADE BEGINNING
TO HAPPEN IN WASHINGTON.
WE NEED TO BEGIN TO THINK THAT
JUST ABOUT DAMAGE LIMITATION OR
ABOUT HOW TO GRIND DOWN THE
RUSSIANS SLOWLY.
BUT ABOUT HOW WE ARE GOING TO
HELP UKRAINE WIN.
AND BY WINNING I MEAN EXPEL THE
RUSSIAN TROOPS FROM THEIR
COUNTRY AND GREAT SOME KIND OF
STABLE, LONG LASTING PERMANENT
PEACE.
AND THAT IS A VERY LARGE ASK
FROM --
BUT IF WE MAKE THAT OUR GOAL
AND THEN WORK BACKWARDS, WHICH
ARMS DO WE NEED TO GIVE THE
UKRAINIANS IN ORDER FOR THEM TO
PUSH OUT THE TROOPS --
WHAT KIND OF FINAL SETTLEMENT
WILL ACHIEVE WHAT WE WANTED TO
ACHIEVE?
WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR A SECOND
BEST OUTCOME.
WE ARE LOOKING FOR THE BEST