Congressman, thanks for joining us.
I want to start with the issue
of gun reform,
because Tennessee's
Republican governor,
Bill Lee, as you heard
there, is calling on the REPUBLICAN-LED
state legislature to take action
in the wake of that horrific
Nashville school
shooting, the Christian School Covenant.
Take a listen to
some of what Governor Lee had to say.
It is important that we find a way
to remove
individuals
who are a threat to themselves
or to our society
to remove them from access to weapons.
I'm asking the legislature to bring forth
thoughtful, practical measures
to do that,
to strengthen our laws,
to separate
those dangerous people from firearms.
Congressman,
what might be a practical measure
to separate people from guns
that that shouldn't have guns,
shouldn't have access to guns
because they're in some sort of distress
that you might support?
Well, Jake, it's good to be with you.
This has been a question
that's been coming up
in various state legislatures
when I was in the Florida legislature.
Similar question came up.
The default position became red flag laws
for risk protection orders
or whatever you want to call them.
The issue with red flag laws
is that the U.S.
citizen who somebody thinks
might have mental health issues,
their property is taken from them
and then they have to go to court
to get their property back.
If it's found out that the mental health
claims are actually invalid.
So in short, you're actually violating
the constitutional rights
of an American citizen.
And then they have to prove to the court
that their rights should be in state,
be reinstated.
That's the issue
with red flag laws as they exist today.
If you're going to talk about
a different situation
where you're saying
if somebody in the family said
or in a community
said, it's
talking about the mental health issues
that exist
and then there is a procedure
that goes through to a test to that
to figure that out,
you go through
a legal procedure around that
and then something is talked
about about firearms
that might be palatable,
but the way
red flag laws operate
today
violate the rights of American citizens.
And at the end of the day,
we are a nation of laws.
We are a nation by the US Constitution.
Constitutional rights
have to be protected at all times.
So as you noted,
you voted when you were in the Florida
legislature against red flag laws
or risk protection orders.
That was in the wake
of the Parkland School shooting
that was passed
by the Republican
led legislature
and signed by Republican Governor
then Rick Scott
CNN's Leyla Santiago,
our reporter in Miami.
She interviewed
the Polk County sheriff last year,
a conservative Second Amendment guy
I want you to listen to what
the sheriff had to say.
Listen, I'm a strong Second
Amendment guy.
I'm a conservative.
I believe risk protection orders work.
He said they work.
We saw we Leila went into the courtroom.
We saw individuals
who had guns taken away from them
on a temporary basis
from the judge
because they were in a time of distress.
This conservative
sheriff says that law saves lives.
Look, Grady
Judge is a great sheriff in our state.
But on the implication
about protecting constitutional rights,
that's where he and I disagree.
Like I said,
if there is a process upon
which people have to go
and adjudicate their mental health
first before their property is taken,
taken away from them, that's one thing.
But that's not what risk
protection orders do.
Risk protection orders
take away your property
and then you have to go to court
to get your property back
That is a fundamental
taking under the United States
Constitution.
That's why
I believe that the actual
taking of property is unconstitutional.
But that's something
we're even conservative this disagree.
That's no disrespect to Grady, Judge.
That's my position
and that's my way of looking at the U.S.
Constitution
and the property of people
who are citizens in our country
who until a tragedy occurs,
they actually have
not run afoul of the law.
And so you have to adjudicate
the mental health stuff
first before you can go
and take property.
That's my point. That's my stance.
I understand your point.
But what about the constitutional rights
of those 39 year olds at Covenant School
in Nashville
or the three faculty and staff members
or the six individuals killed or I'm
sorry, five individuals killed
at the Louisville Bank?
They have a constitutional right to life.
And you I understand your concern
about the Second Amendment rights
of an individual, but
don't those rights matter less
than the individual right to live
and not be gunned down in their school?
Well, actually, Jake,
and I think you're conflating
life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness
is in the Declaration of Independence,
not the United States Constitution.
We all want to protect life at all times.
But that doesn't mean you get to abridge
rights of American citizens.
You don't get to do that.
If you want to go
through the legal process
and adjudicate mental health,
I'm all for that.
But you can't take
somebody's property from them.
And then they have to petition the court
to get their stuff back.
That's the wrong way to go.
That's always been my disagreement
with red flag laws.
It's my disagreement today.
And look for the children
who lost their lives in that church.
That is horrific.
But what you're dealing with
there is somebody who knowingly went
about breaking the law.
And so the law
is designed to protect us all.
If somebody
an assailant chooses to break the law,
That's what
the criminal proceeding is for
the Constitution is to protect the lot,
to protect the rights of all law
abiding citizens. Right.
I guess my my last point here
and I understand the difference
between the Declaration of Independence
and the Constitution, but certainly
the right to exist is
an untrammeled from being shot
in one's place of work
or one's place of education
is fundamental as well.
I guess my point is,
what solution do you propose this
this kid, this 23 year old who shot up
the bank
or the
other person
in their twenties
who shot up the Covenant School
These were individuals that had not
broken any law.
They had not done
anything to run afoul of the law.
But they were people
obviously in mental distress.
I'm not sympathizing with them,
but they were in mental distress.
What can we do
to keep guns out of their hands?
Well, look,
and that's why I'm saying
what I think the key thing is
we have to try to find better ways
of adjudicating and understanding
the mental health
capability of certain individuals
who are falling through the cracks.
That's paramount. That's step one.
Then step two,
if you can get
that mental health evaluation understood,
then you could start talking about
whether they should possess
firearms or not.
That is step two.
And I think all we're talking about
is which step goes first.
You're saying that
because of the tragedy
that has struck it,
we should just take their property
from them first
and then figure off
the rest on the back end.
And all I'm saying is
let's figure out the actual mental health
issues first
and then go through the process
of taking away guns
if it is adjudicated that, yes,
they are a danger to themselves.
In their community. Right.
I'm actually not advocating
for one law or another.
I was just quoting the Pasco
County sheriff, who you know
better than I
who said that
that red flag law
that you voted against works
in saves lives.
And I'm just I'm just somebody
who is sick.
I'm sorry, Polk County, not Pasco County.
I'm just someone who's sick and tired
of reporting
about innocent people
being gunned down by people
with with mental problems.
And obviously,
not everybody who has a mental
problem is a danger to themselves
and others,
but there needs to be something done.
Don't you agree?
Well, Jake,
I think you said you hit the
nail on the head.
Not everybody who is dealing with
mental health issues is violent.
Most of them are not.
The vast majority are not. Jake, right.
If you're an American citizen
who's dealing with mental health issues,
we all sympathize and empathize.
And we want to make sure you get the help
that you
that you need in order
for your life to get back on track.
But because that is occurring,
that doesn't mean your property
should be taken from you.
And that is the
that's the crux of this issue.
Like,
I don't really think we're too far apart.
All we're saying
is all I'm saying is really is
let's adjudicate
the mental health issues.
If that is clear and apparent,
then we can talk about ways
to restrict you from having guns.
But don't take American
American citizens property from them.
And then they have to go to the court
to petition for it back.
That doesn't
protect their constitutional right,
even when the vast majority of people
who do have mental health
issues are not even contemplating
violence whatsoever.