Hi Everyone - I have a question for you today ...
How similar are the Thai and Indonesian languages?
The other day I woke up at about 4am - yeah, I know
And when I woke up, I had the thought running through my head
If a Thai wanted to learn Indonesian or an Indonesian wanted to learn Thai
How much from the existing foundation that exists from one's mother tongue
From Thai or Indonesian as a mother tongue,
That could be used / exploited to help learn the other language
So for an Indonesian, how much would it help when learning Thai
And for Thais, vice versa learning Indonesian
Actually, this isn't just for Thai and Indonesian
It also applies to Lao, Malaysian, Malay, Javanese, Balinese etc.
You'll usually see me in my other clips speak in and about Chinese, Thai, English - and the similarities between
between Thai for example and Chinese
Or other dialects of China
Or maybe Thai and Vietnamese, but how could there be resemblances between
Thai and Indonesian?
It's because of Sanskrit
If you look at the histories of both Thailand and Indonesia
And the history of regional dialects and languages in Indonesia,
There is a lot of influence from Sanskrit flowing into the language
This is a tool that I made
to help anyone who can already read one Indic script
'Aksara Indic'
Like Hindi, Devanagari - Sanskrit, Thai, Lao
Khmer - Cambodia, or Balinese - Hanacaraka - The name used to call the Javanese and Balinese scripts
To help them learn another script using the same system like Thai
So these are Balinese consonants
It's all the same system - it's a map of the Human Mouth.
The top row is the back of the mouth - k kh g gh ng
Then the palate -c ch j jh ny
cerebral t th d dh n, and then the dental t th d dh n
and finally the lips p ph b bh m
So all of these scripts from India, Thailand, Tibet, Balinese Hanacaraka
Javanese Hanacaraka are all based on this very cool system.
It's really extraordinary,
because once you know where a given letter is located in this map,
then you know exactly how it's pronounced, because you know
the point of articulation within the mouth.
So why am I introducing this system in this clip today?
Because if you really want to understand properly
what's the same between Thai and Indonesian, then
you need to understand the sound shifts that are happening for the same words.
Because the spelling using the Hanacaraka system in Balinese, Javanese
and the spelling in Thai
are the same - they use the same letters as the root words in Sanskrit.
Or in Pali
In Thai, Indonesian, Balinese, Javanese - it's not just Sanskrit that influenced the vocabulary
There are also many words from Pali
which was the language used by the Buddha
So maybe there are some slight spelling differences for the same word
For example, the letter 'V' व in Sanskrit - 'Varga' (member) becomes 'Warga' in Indonesian.
If in Pali (not Bali), but in Pali,
The word 'Varga' वर्ग becomes 'barga' बर्ग
So sometimes both in Indonesian / Javanese / Balinese
and also in Thai, there are words that perhaps
enter into the language from BOTH sources
From both Sanskrit AND Pali
And sometimes the meaning of each of those words might be slightly different.
So here's Balinese Hanacaraka, and then Javanese
There really almost the same, and then we can see
Lao letters
Why am I showing Lao?
Because there are changes that happened with the Lao letters
That mirror the changes (reduction in use) of letters in Balinese and Javanese (Letters who's sounds weren't in the language were cut)
Okay, so let's go back to the words that are similar between the languages
So now if we look at the spelling,
we will know whether or not a given word despite the way it sounds, is in fact the same word or not (or origin)
So in Thailand, in the past where Sanskrit had ka kha ga gha nga where the inherent vowel was 'a'
Thai is like Javanese where a's turn into o's - ko kho kho kho ng ก ข ค ฆ ง
It's similar to Javanese right? If in Balinese
Balinese Ka kha ga gha nga - Javanese Ko Kho Go Gho Ngo
In Sansrit ka kha ga gha nga क ख ग घ ङ - in Thai becomes ko kho kho kho ngo ก ข ค ฆ ง
So usually, Sanskrit
or Pali has a short 'a' and Thai turns it into an 'o'
For example - 'negara' नगर 'city / state', becomes นคร nakhon - 'city / state' in Thai
Bangsa in Indonesian (nation) from Sanskrit वंष vangsha or Pali बंष bangsha becomes วงษ์ / พงษ์ 'wong' or 'phong' in Thai
A->O just like in
Balinese and Javanese - A becomes O, but in Thai
There isn't the heavy 'MEDOK' sound we have in Javanese.
I started to try and write down all the Sanskrit words that I could think of that were common between Indonesian and Thai
And after I exhausted my own brain
I sought out a list of Sanskrit words in Indonesian
And then I filtered out all the words that I knew were common words in Thai that most Thais would know
(Note that some of the Sanskrit you see in This list didn't parse properly, so some of the incorrect meanings were pulled into the sanskrit column)
And so I generated this table - there are so many
So for this clip, there are actually TOO many to cover
So instead, what I'll do is show a few examples of words
And we can see some characteristics of these words that can help Thais learn Indonesian and vice versa
Indonesians learning Thai - and we can see
What exactly is 'similar' or 'common' between the two or three languages
Indonesian, Javanese, Balinese and Thai
And Lao, because the difference between Thai and Lao
Is similar to the difference between Malaysian or Melayu and formal Indonesian
The difference isn't that great
So today we can see a few
examples - the first word
Why in Thai, do we say 'phasa' ภาษา and in Indonesian we use 'Bahasa' for Language?
In Balinese, basa and in Javanese Boso
Actually, in Sanskrit
This litter is भ 'bh' - B+H - not 'BH' (Indonesian uses Dutch word 'BH bustehouder' for 'Bra')
So that's BHASHA - so BH भ in Indonesian
is Bahasa, but in Thai,
They can't cluster this 'h' sound with a 'b',
So the 'h' gets lost, as does the voiced 'b' becoming 'phasa' ภาษา
ภาษา phasa (Thai) -> bahasa (Indonesia)-> basa (Bali) -> boso (Java)
But the root is the same from Sanskrit - 'Bhasha' - and the 'sh' sound
Moves forward in all, so 'sh' becomes 's'
Bahasa - Phasa
So this is an example of a Sanskrit word
that has the same meaning in all Sanskrit, Thai, Indonesian
Same - Same - Same
But there are some words that aren't like that
Maybe there's a word where the original Sanskrit meaning shifts when it's used in one or more of these other languages
In Thai or Indonesian
So the next word is 'bangsa' - it comes from
The word 'vangsha' वंष 'nation' / 'tribe' in Sanskrit
So Vangsha in Sanskrit by the time it gets to Pali is Bangsha बंष
So 'v' turns into a 'b' in Pali
So Vangsha -> Bangsa
And the meaning is 'nation' / 'tribe'
or 'race'
So in Thai, there are two words from two different flows
One from Sanskrit and one from Pali
So the Sanskrit Vangsha - 'a' becomes 'o', so that's Vongsha
but in Thai, there's a characteristic where
If there is a final Sanskrit vowel
It's usually cut off, because
usually the throat will close at the end of each syllable, and when it closes
It cuts the voice and no sound can follow that closing.
So Vangsha becomes
Vangsh- but then 'sh' won't happen either because the throat kills it and the 'ng'
So we have 'vang', and then we know that 'a' turns into 'o'
So Vangsha becomes 'Wong' - V turns into W
So, Vangsha - > Wansa
Wongsa -> Wong
So the word 'Bangsa' which we have in Indonesian, in Thai is pronounced 'wong'
And we also have the same word coming in from Pali -
Bangsa (Pali) just like Indonesian 'Bangsa'
So in Thai, we don't have the same 'B' as in Pali
It becomes 'ph', so Bangsa
Phangsa, phang, phong พงษ์
So there are both the words วงษ์ wong and พงษ์ phong in Thai
We will often see one of these words at the end of Thai surnames
or when describing the names of races
Ethnic groups
You can use พงษ์ phong
You will usually see this one as a component of family names.
In Indonesian, there are too both Bangsa and Wangsa - maybe the meanings are slightly different
but they actually originally all flow back
to Pali Bangsa and Sanskrit Vangsha
What else do we have?
Varga वर्ग - This is really interesting again because we have the same word coming in from both Sanskrit
and Pali - Barga
In Thailand, it's impossible to have this consonant cluster of 'r' and then another consonant
So r+g will never happen because the throat cuts it off at the first consonant pronounced
So rg won't happen, so here, the 'r' in varga
is lost (but retained in spelling) and it is pronounced as วรรค 'wak'
Varga - Wak - the 'a' isn't pronounced either
Because as we learnt, the final 'a' gets cut off so
Varga -> Warg -> Wak and then from Pali - Barga -> Phak พรรค
So from Pali,
Barga बर्ग turns into 'pharga' , turns into 'pharg'
and then finally 'phak' พรรค
Varga (warga) - Wak วรรค, barga - phak พรรค
So we can start seeing now that in Indonesian
there are many words that are actually the same - the word 'warga' means from a 'group of people' or a 'family member'
We often see this word 'wak' วรรค in Thai
for a group or even พรรค 'phak' for a 'group'
For example, political parties use the word 'phak' พรรค (warga)
Remember Thaksin's political party - พรรคไทยรักไทย phak thai rak thai 'Thais love Thai'
Thais who love the nation of Thailand (or anything Thai)
So 'phak' พรรค (from warga) means a 'group / party' of people, and 'wak' วรรค
Is also 'group', with a slightly different meaning - but the root is the same
From Sanskrit and Pali
It originated from the same Sanskrit word.
Warna वर्ण (varna in Sanskrit) in Indonesian means 'colour'
And in Thai it can also mean 'caste' as in the Indian caste system
The word 'Varna' - Warna
The 'r' cluster isn't possible in Thai
In the vocal system, the 'r' is lost, so Warna becomes
'wan-na' วรรณ or just 'wan'.
The meaning is the same 'caste / colour' (but usually caste in Thai)
That's the position within the caste system.
The social system of India (not Indonesia)
So we have the same word in Thai as in Indonesian, but the meaning is slightly changed
and the next one, bicara 'speak' in Indonesian comes from
'vicara' विचार in Indonesian means to speak 'vac' वच in Sanskrit is 'word'
But in Thai, 'vicara'
the 'r' at the end in Thai - gets the closed throat, and so
r becomes an 'n' and so Vicara becomes 'wichan' วิจารณ์
The meaning means to critique or analyse
There's also another word from Pali 'พิจารณา' 'phicharana' which means to 'consider' (have internal words).
So Indonesian, Vicara became 'bicara' speak
In Thai, we have a word from that same root - but here the word means to analyse or consider วิจารณ์ พิจารณา
So this is an example of where the original Sanskrit / Pali meaning changes.
'Kunci' meaning 'keys' in Indonesian
In Sanskrit, also means 'key'
In Thai Kunci becomes กุญแจ 'kuncae' meaning also 'key'
Garuda - is 'khrut' ครุฑ
There is no 'g' sound in Thai - the original Sanskrit 'g' ग becomes ค 'kh'
So Garuda -> Khrutha
Then the end is cut off so Garuda
becomes 'Khrut' ครุฑ and for SOME people might even be pronounced 'khut'
Because the 'khr' คร cluster again is difficult
So the 'r' is lost - Garuda - Khrut
Khut - so Thai people will see Garuda and think
that's 'khut' - very abbreviated.
Next, 'Jaya' जय 'victory' become ชัย 'chai' (victory)
The voicing of 'j' is lost in Thai so it becomes ch
Jaya - Chai, Dewa देव (god) becomes เทวะ 'thewa' - a god or เทพ thep (like in the end of Bangkok - กรุงเทพ krungthep - city of gods)
And desa देश (village or town) becomes Thet เทศ
Because the original Sanskrit word 'desha' - sh turns into 's' like we have in indonesian 'desa'
And then in Thai, the d द in Sanskrit turns into a 'th' ท
So in Thai, desa is
tesa-> and then the final 'a' is cut
so it becomes 'thet', because the throat closes off and kills it at the end.
So Desa becomes 'Thet'
Prathet ประเทศ means 'nation' or 'country' in Thai
The word नगर negara in Thai becomes 'nakhon' นคร (city)
It's the same.
Dana (Dhana) धन (money) in Sanskrit / Indonesian becomes 'thon' ธน in Thai
The 'a' at the end is cut - so 'Dana' as we know means 'money'
Becomes 'Thon' ธน - and the word for 'Bank'
In Thai - ธนาคาร 'thanakhan' comes from Dana धन Aagara आगार (money building)
So Dana Aagara - Money Building is the building where you keep money or finances ธนาคาร Thanakhan 'Bank'
Dharma धर्म / Darma becomes ธรรม 'tham-ma'
Because the 'r' and 'm' cluster can't happen
So Dharma or Darma becomes Thamma
or just Tham ธรรม - Warna-> Wan (colour / caste) , Negara -> Nakhon (city / state)
Putra पुत्र (son) is 'but' บุตร (notice the 'r' stays in Thai spelling)
Sometimes the 'p' in Sanskrit becomes 'b' in Thai
Actually the 'b' บ in Thai is NOT the same b that we have in Indonesian
B and D in Thai didn't come from the corresponding 'b' and 'd' in Sanskrit, but rather came from
a stopped 'm' where the throat is 'closed' at the beginning of an 'm'
So ma became 'ba
So sometimes if you see a 'p' प
in Sanskrit or Indonesian, it MIGHT become a 'b' บ in Thai
'but' บุตร 'child' or 'son'
The meaning is Putra or Puteri 'son' or 'daughter'
The next one 'Bisa' as in 'snake venom बिष 'bisha' becomes 'phit' พิษ in Thai
Bisa - Phisa - Phit
It comes from the Sanskrit word 'bisha' meaning 'venom' or 'poison'
So Sanskrit bisha becomes 'phit' พิษ in Thai, but in Indonesian, 'bisa'
There are two more - 'Bahaya' (dangerous in Indonesian) is just like the word 'Bahasa' (Language)
भाषा 'bhasha' - the 'bh' consonant from Sanskrit
is the same one in 'Bahaya' भय 'bhaya' (Sanskrit) meaning 'dangerous'
But the end is lost and the 'bh' turns into a ph - so in Thai ภัย phai 'something dangerous'
The meaning is a little different - but the meaning in Indonesian
'Dangerous', is a little different from Thai ภัย 'phai' which means something that IS dangerous or brings peril
Something that IS dangerous - but
'Dangerous' in Indonesian is just 'bahaya'
In Thai, ภัยธรรมชาติ 'phai tham-ma-chat' is actually 'bahaya dharma jati'
It means 'natural disaster'
Natural - ธรรมชาติ tham-ma-chat - Dharma+Jati घर्मजाति
So - 'Phai' ภัย to 'Bahaya' danger
Natural disaster - so if an Indonesian was learning Thai
And they know the spelling
AND if that Indonesian actually knew how to read Hanacaraka in Balinese or Javanese
They could see exactly what the meaning was, because the spelling
is the same as the original Sanskrit / Pali words which are shared in Indonesian / Javanese / Balinese
Bahaya Dharma Jati is not a word in Indonesian
But if an Indonesian heard that, they'd have a good idea (gut feeling) of what it might mean
From the root. And finally, the word 'Mitra' मित्र มิตร 'mit' (Friend)
Mitra - 'friend' or 'friendly' like we have the word 'teman' also in Indonesian
But in Thai, the 'r' is not pronounced because it's at the end
the 'a' at the end doesn't get pronounced either as we know that the end is cut off when the throat closes
So 'Mitra' becomes 'Mit' มิตร (but notice how the spelling still retains the 'r' at the end ร)
Mitra - Mit - and the meaning is the same
It means 'Friend' in Thai or 'Friendly.
There are actually so many words that are common between both languages - this is just the tip of the iceberg - a few samples
That can show you how many commonalities there are and how they may or may not resemble each other when rendered in the language
Indonesian and Thai
I hope in the future, I will be able to do a clip
That can help both Thais and Indonesians learn the Javanese and Balinese writing system 'hanacaraka'
It's actually very easy.
It's not too difficult if you understand the system.
If you understand the system of Javanese or Balinese writing,
Then learning Thai or Lao scripts will be extremely easy.
Because it's based on the same system - and there are many letters
That look similar - so the system is similar, letter shapes are similar, the sounds are similar
So THIS is the 'sameness' that we have between these four or five languages
Thai, Lao, Indonesia
Bali and Javanese - and even Malay
There are so many, but we've taken so much time today
Please click like and Subscribe (and go to Mindkraft.me - and visit Jcademy.com)
I'm Stuart Jay Raj - I'll see you on the other side - Sampai ketemu lagi