NOT ABLE TO GET THROUGH A
SENTENCE WITHOUT REVEALING HIS
INNER MOST THOUGHTS OF ULTIMATE
POWER.
>> LET’S BRING IN STAFF WRITER
AT "THE ATLANTIC" BARTON GELMAN,
WHOSE LATEST PIECE IS TITLED
"THE ELECTION THAT COULD BREAK
AMERICA".
ALSO WITH US PROFESSOR OF
GOVERNMENT BRENDON NYAN.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU BOTH ON BOARD
THIS MORNING.
>> BARTON, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT
YOUR REPORT THAT TRUMP WILL
FIRST CLAIM VICTORY BEFORE MAIL
BALLOTS ARE TABULATED AND
PREVAIL IN A REPUBLICAN STATE
LEGISLATORS TO APPOINT THEIR
ELECTORAL VOTES TO TRUMP.
THAT’S YOUR CHIEF CONCERN.
TALK ABOUT HOW THAT WOULD
HAPPEN.
>> WE’RE USED TO THE IDEA THAT
WE CAST VOTES AND THEN THE
POPULAR VOTE WINNER IN A STATE
GETS THAT STATE’S ELECTORAL
VOTES BUT THE CONSTITUTION
DOESN’T SAY IT HAS TO BE THAT
WAY.
TRUMP AND HIS PEOPLE ARE AWARE
OF THIS.
THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS THE
POWER, ACCORDING TO THE SUPREME
COURT, TO SEIZE BACK FROM THE
PEOPLE THE DECISION OVER WHO THE
ELECTORS WILL BE.
AND TRUMP’S PEOPLE ARE TALKING
ABOUT A STRATEGY IN WHICH THEY
WOULD GO TO THE LEGISLATURES IN
SOME OF THE SIX SWING STATES
THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY
REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATOR IN
BOTH CHAMBERS AND SAY YOU SHOULD
REJECT THE VOTE COUNT BECAUSE
IT’S CORRUPT, BECAUSE IT’S
RIGGED, BECAUSE IT’S FILLED WITH
FRAUD, AND YOU SHOULD THEREFORE
APPOINT ELECTORS THAT WOULD BE
TRUMP ELECTORS REGARDLESS OF THE
VOTE.
>> LET’S BE CLEAR HERE IN THE
SWING STATES OF MICHIGAN,
WISCONSIN, PENNSYLVANIA, YOU
HAVE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS BUT
YOU HAVE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURES
THERE.
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURES IN OHIO
AND FLORIDA AS WELL.
ARE YOU SAYING THAT DONALD
TRUMP’S -- DONALD TRUMP’S
CAMPAIGN AND HIS LAWYERS ARE
TALKING TO SOME IN THIS THOSE
LEGISLATURES AND TELLING THEM TO
OVERTHROW THE WILL OF THE VOTERS
IN THOSE STATES?
>> WELL, I KNOW THAT THEY’VE HAD
THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE HEAD
OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN
PENNSYLVANIA, WHO TOLD ME SO.
AND I KNOW THAT THE PENNSYLVANIA
SENATE MAJORITY LEADER AND
SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE ARE AWARE
OF THIS TALK AND HAVE TALKED
AMONG THEMSELVES ABOUT THE
POSSIBILITY.
TRUMP IS RUNNING A CAMPAIGN
PREMISESED ON THE IDEA THAT HE
CAN’T WIN ENOUGH VOTES IF ALL
THE VOTES ARE COUNTED AND HE HAS
TO CHANGE VENUES.
HE HAS TO CHANGE TO A DIFFERENT
WAY OF COUNTING.
THE THING ABOUT A PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION IS THAT IT DEPENDS ON
THE CONSENSUS OF THE LOSER.
IF THE LOSER WON’T CONCEDE,
PARTICULARLY IF THE INCUMBENT
WON’T CONCEDE HE HAS REPS HE CAN
WORK, THERE’S NO SINGLE UMPIRE
WITH THE ABILITY TO SAY THE GAME
IS OVER, WE CALLED IT.
THE AMERICAN SYSTEM ISN’T BUILT
A SINGLE EFFICIENT UMPIRE THAT
WAY.
>> LET ME ASK, IT SEEMS TO ME
WE’VE ALREADY HAD A SUPREME
COURT RULING EARLIER THIS YEAR
ON ELECTORS THAT DIDN’T FOLLOW
THE WILL OF THEIR -- OF THE
PEOPLE IN THEIR STATES.
WOULD IT THEN GO TO THE SUPREME
COURT OF THE UNITED STATES TO
FORCE THE STATE LEGISLATURES TO
FOLLOW THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE IN
THEIR STATES?
>> THEY WERE DIFFERENT KINDS OF
CASES AND IT’S NOT NECESSARILY
THE COURTS IT WOULD GO TO, IT
WOULD PROBABLY GO TO THE COURT
AS WELL.
BUT THE ELECTORAL COUNT ACT THAT
WAS PASSED AFTER THE ONLY OTHER
TIME E IN HISTORY WE HAD A
DEBACLE LIKE THIS WITH
POSSIBILITY OF THE MULTIPLE
COMPETING SLATES OF ELECTORS
WHERE TWO GROUPS OF PEOPLE SAID
I’M THE STATE OF ELECTOR FOR THE
STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA, FOR
EXAMPLE, IT’S SUPPOSED TO GO TO
CONGRESS.
CONGRESS IS SUPPOSED TO DECIDE
WHO ARE THE LEGITIMATE ELECTORS,
IF ANY, FROM THE STATE.
AND THE PROBLEM IS THE
ELECTORATE COUNT ACT IS ONE OF
THE MOST GARBLED STATUES EVER
PASSED BY CONGRESS, WHICH IS
SAYING A LOT, AND THERE ARE A
NUMBER OF SCENARIOS, LIKELY
SCENARIOS IF YOU HAVE A SPLIT OF
CONTROL BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND
THE SENATE, IN WHICH CONGRESS
CAN’T MAKE THE DECISION.
IN WHICH YOU HAVE BOTH SIDES
DEADLOCKED.
THEY SORT OF CHECKMATE EACH
OTHER ON WHO ARE GOING TO BE THE
PEOPLE WHO CAST THE VOTES FROM,
IN THIS CASE, PENNSYLVANIA, AND
THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHEN YOU
HAVE CHAOS GOING ON FOR A LONG
TIME, WHICH IS TRUMP’S STRATEGY
HERE, THEN AS TIME PASSES, THE
PRESIDENT -- THE PERSON WHO’S
GOT THE TROOPS UNDER HIS COMMAND
AND HAS THE APPARATUS, OR THE