IT IS.
>> TYRUS, SUSAN, SORRY FOR THAT
PAUSE.
WE HAVE THE VERDICT NOW.
WE HAVE A GUILTY VERDICT ON FIVE
OF THE SIX CHARGES.
ON COUNTS ONE, GUILTY.
THAT IS CONSPIRACY TO ENTICE AN
INDIVIDUAL UNDER THE AGE OF 17
TO TRAVEL IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE
WITH INTENT TO ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL
SEXUAL ACTIVITY.
THAT WAS FIVE YEARS IN PRISONS.
COUNT TWO, THIS IS THE NOT
GUILTY.
ENTICEMENT OF AN INDIVIDUAL
UNDER THE AGE OF 17 TO TRAVEL
WITH INTENT TO ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL
SEXUAL ACTIVITY.
STATE MAXIMUM FIVE YEARS.
SO GUILTY OF CONSPIRACY, NOT
GUILTY OF THE ENTICEMENT ITSELF,
AND THEN COUNTS THREE, FOUR,
FIVE, AND SIX ARE ALL GUILTY,
CONSPIRACY TO TRANSPORT
INDIVIDUALS UNDER THE AGE OF 17,
MINOR, TO TRAVEL IN INTERSTATE
COMMERCE WITH INTENT TO ENGAGE
IN ILLEGAL SEXUAL ACTIVITY,
TRANSPORTATION OF AN INDIVIDUAL
UNDER THE AGE OF 17 WITH INTENT
TO ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL
SEXUAL ACTIVITY, SEX TRAFFICKING
CONSPIRACY, AND SEX TRAFFICKING
OF AN INDIVIDUAL UNDER THE AGE
OF 18.
COUNT SIX.
THAT BRINGS WITH IT A MAXIMUM OF
40 YEARS IN PRISON.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL FOUND GUILTY
ON FIVE OF HER SIX FEDERAL
CHARGES TONIGHT.
FIVE OF THE SIX MEANS SHE COULD
FACE A TOTAL OF 65 YEARS IN
PRISON.
THAT IS GHISLAINE MAXWELL ON
YOUR SCREEN RIGHT THERE.
BUT TONIGHT WAS FOUND GUILTY BY
A FEDERAL JURY ON 5 OF 6 COUNTS,
INCLUDING TRANSPORTATION OF AN
INDIVIDUAL UNDER THE AGE OF 17
WITH INTENT TO ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL
SEXUAL ACTIVITY, AND IN
SEX TRAFFICKING CONSPIRACY.
JASON CHAFFETZ, YOUR THOUGHTS ON
THIS 5 OF 6 GUILTY VERDICT
RETURN THERE.
>> YOU KNOW, THE BEST BUY LEAF I
HAVE IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS
THE JURY, AND THE JURY LISTEN TO
IT AND THEY CAME TO THIS
CONCLUSION AND HALLELUJAH. THERE ARE A LOT OF WOMEN WHO
THERE ARE A LOT OF WOMEN WHO
WENT THROUGH HELL, AND HOPEFULLY
HAVE SOME SENSE OF JUSTICE.
I DON’T THINK IT WILL MAKE UP
FOR WHAT WAS DONE TO HER THAT
JEFFREY M SIN AND WETNESS WAX
WILL DATE IS ONE OF THE MOST DISGUSTING THINGS
THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE FOR THESE
YOUNG WOMEN.
BUT I’M GLAD SHE IS GOING TO
ESSENTIALLY SPEND THE REST OF
HER LIFE IN JAIL.
AND I HOPE THAT IS A GOOD HOPE
FOR THOSE THAT HAVE SUFFERED
THESE TYPES OF INJUSTICES, THAT
HAVE BEEN ASSAULTED, WHETHER BY
THEMSELVES OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT
BE, THAT JUSTICE CAN PREVAIL.
IT IS HARD FOR THESE WOMEN.
I CAN’T EVEN IMAGINE WHAT IT IS
LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND HAVE TO
TESTIFY.
I HOPE THE 100 OR SO THAT THEY
DIDN’T TESTIFY ARE ABLE TO SPEAK
OR SHOW THE JUDGE AND TALK TO
THE JUDGE IN THE SENTENCING
PHASE IF THEY WANT TO COME
FORWARD AND TALK ABOUT THIS.
BUT THERE IS ALSO A LOT MORE TO
THE STORY.
THIS GUY DIDN’T GET PROSECUTED
EARLIER AND IT SEEMED LIKE HE
PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE AND THERE
ARE OF OTHER PEOPLE THAT WERE
COMPLICIT AND IT’S THE FEDERAL
MEANT HIS GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO
DO THE JOB COME THE NEED TO GO
AFTER THOSE PEOPLE AS WELL.
>> FOR MORE IN THIS DEVELOPING
CASE, LET’S GO TO ALEXIS
McADAMS, A REPORT OUTSIDE
COURTHOUSE IN NEW YORK CITY
RIGHT NOW.
ALEXIS.
>> EMILY, WE HAVE BEEN WAITING
HERE FOR SEVERAL DAYS STANDING
BY FOR ANY DEVELOPMENTS --
SHE WANTED THEM TO STICK AROUND
AT LEAST THROUGH 6:00 TODAY DUE
TO MAJOR COVERT CONCERNS.
SHE WANTED TO MOVE THINGS ALONG
AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT
PUSHING THEM TOO MUCH.
AND THEY DID COME TO A DECISION
IN THE LAST 20 MINUTES OR SO AS
HE READ.
GUILTY, GHISLAINE MAXWELL, ON
FIVE IS SIX COUNTS HERE THAT
COMING OUT OF THE FEDERAL
COURTHOUSE JUST BEHIND THE SIX
TO MAKE MOMENT AGO.
ALL GUILTY EXCEPT FOR COUNTY
WHICH IS ENTICING A MINOR TO
TRAVEL TO ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL ACTS
WHICH CARRY A MINIMUM SENTENCE
OF FIVE YEARS IN PRISON.
THAT WAS THE CHARGE THAT THOSE
JURORS IN THAT ROOM EVEN ASKED
FOR A WHITE BOARD, MARKERS,
HIGHLIGHTERS AND THEY WETNESS
THE JUDGE IF HE COULD CLARIFY
WHAT ENTICEMENT MEN ON THOSE
CHARGES.
AND THIS COMES AFTER ABOUT 40
HOURS OF DELIBERATION TODAY ON
DAY SIX, THAT VERDICT FINALLY
COMING OUT HERE FOR THE JUDGE
TELLING THE JURORS THAT WITH THE
EXTRA MONOCLE SPIKE IN CUBBY
CASES IN NEW YORK, SHE WANTED
THINGS TO MOVE ALONG, ONE OF THE
JURORS WAS GOING TO HAVE TO GO
INTO CORE TEAM WHICH WOULD
DISRUPT THE TRIAL.
THE JURY DID HAVE SEVERAL
QUESTIONS A FEW NOTES THAT WERE
SENT OUT AS WELL BUT -- THEY HAD
ASKED 13 QUESTIONS TO THE JUDGE
SENDING OUT THOSE NOTES, ASKING
FOR MORE TESTIMONY, ASKING TO
SEE ME SOMEWHERE AT THE
EVIDENCE.
SO A LOT OF US OUT HERE
WONDERING IF THIS WOULD HAPPEN
ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THEY ENDED
YESTERDAY AROUND 5:00 WHEN SHE
ASKED HIM TO STAY NEXT OR HOUR
AND SAY I THINK WE’RE IN A GOOD
SPOT, GOING TO HEAD HOME FOR THE
NIGHT.
IN THE JURORS STILL HAD A LOT OF
QUESTIONS EVEN THOUGH TODAY
PROSECUTORS TELLING US THAT SHE
HAD GROOMED AND TRAFFIC UNDERAGE
GIRLS TO BE SEXUALLY ABUSED BY
HER FORMER BOYFRIEND, JEFF
EPSTEIN, AND AFTER THE LONG
HOLIDAY WEEKEND, THEY CAME BACK
ASKING FOR THE TESTIMONY FROM
ALL FOUR ACCUSERS AND WANTED THE
JUDGE ONCE AGAIN TO CLARIFY THE
DEFINITION OF ENTICEMENT.
THE JURORS WERE DELIBERATING FOR
HOURS BUT FINALLY COMING OUT AND
WITH SOME NEW PEOPLE THAT WERE
ON CHANNEL AS WELL TALKING ABOUT
AND LEGAL EXPERTS SAYING AS TIME
CONTINUED TO PASS, THEY WERE
SAYING THIS COULD BE GOOD FOR
THE DEFENSE BECAUSE IT LOOKS
LIKE THEY WERE HAVING A LOT OF
QUESTIONS STILL AT THIS POINT.
BUT THAT JURY MAKING THE
DECISION HERE AFTER 40 HOURS OF
DELIBERATIONS IN MANHATTAN
INSIDE OF THAT FEDERAL COURTS.
GUILTY, GHISLAINE MAXWELL ON
FIVE TO SIX CHARGES.
>> THANK YOU FOR THAT WRAP-UP,
AND I WANTED TO CIRCLE BACK WITH
YOU ON ONE THING THAT YOU
MENTIONED.
SO AS THE JURY ASKED QUESTIONS
DURING THEIR DELIBERATIVE
PROCESS, THEY KEPT ASKING
QUESTIONS, WHERE ARE THE
TRANSCRIPTS THAT THEY ASKED FOR.
WHAT IS OF THE MEMORY AS SPIRITS
THAT THE DEFENSE BROUGHT IN.
FAMOUS PSYCHOLOGICAL EXPERT
TESTIMONY WITNESS HAS TESTIFIED
IN EVERY TRIAL FROM KOJI SIMS INTO TED BUNDY DIFFERENT DOORS
WHAT WAS
THE ASKED FOR THAT TRANSCRIPT IN
THE COURTROOM AND AMONG THE POOL
OF REPORTERS THAT PEOPLE EXPECT
A VERDICT THAT MIGHT NOT GO THE
WAY THAT IT WENT TONIGHT.
>> I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU
ASK AND HOW LONG PEOPLE WERE IN
THEIR WATCHING THINGS MOVE ALONG
PIER THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME
THEY’D ASKED FOR TENTATIVE MONEY
AND TRANSCRIPT OF THE DEFENSES
WITNESS.
I CAME TODAY.
AS YOU MENTION, THE EXPERT SAID
THAT WHEN PEOPLE GO THROUGH
TRAUMA THAT THEY CAN SOMETIMES
REMEMBER THINGS, EVEN THOUGH
THEY ARE VERY VIVID, AS
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN REALLY
WHAT HAPPENS.
SO WHEN THEY DID ASK FOR THAT
TODAY, I’M SURE MANY PEOPLE IN
THE COURTROOM AND THE PEOPLE WHO
HAVE BEEN WATCHING THIS CASE ARE
MULTICOUNTRY AND ALL OVER THE
WORLD THOUGHT HOW ARE THINGS
GOING TO BE PLAY OUT HERE. BIG GUILTY RIGHT NOW, GHISLAINE
MAXWELL COMING COMING OUT OF
THAT FEDERAL COURT JUST MOMENTS
AGO.
HER FAMILY MEMBERS SHOWING UP.
AS WE MENTIONED, IT WAS SILENT
OUT HERE.
PEOPLE WAITING AND THEN ALL THE
SUDDEN WE GOT WORD THAT THERE
WAS A VERDICT, PEOPLE WERE ALL
OVER THIS PLACE AND THAT’S WHERE
WE SAW THE MAXWELL FAMILY AS
WELL.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT.
WE ARE NOW GOING TO BRING IN
FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
PROSECUTOR JEN WHO JOINS US.
INC. YOU FOR JOINING US RIGHT
NOW.
TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ON MAXWELL
BEING GUILTY ON FIVE OVER SIX
FEDERAL CHARGES TONIGHT.
>> COUPLE OF THINGS.
THE FIRST IS THAT EVEN THOUGH
THIS TOOK A WHILE, THE JURY HAD
A LOT OF QUESTIONS, IT STRUCK ME
AS BEING A COHESIVE GROUP.
THEY WERE ASKING QUESTIONS IT.
IT SOUNDED LIKE THEY WERE VERY
COMFORTABLE AND METHODICALLY
PLOWING THROUGH THE EVIDENCE AND
HEARING EACH OTHER OUT.
IT WAS REALLY NO SIGN OF THEM
BEING DEADLOCKED ARE STRUGGLING
ON THE OUTSIDE.
I AM NOT TOTALLY SHOCKED THAT WE
HAVE A VERDICT TODAY.
THE OTHER THING IS, DRIVES THE
SENTENCING IN THE FEDERAL SYSTEM
IS NOT GOING TO BE THE MAXIMUM
PENALTY OR EVEN THE DASHED
CHARGES.
IT’S GOING TO BE SENTENCING
GUIDELINE.
IN JUST A QUICK COCKTAIL NAPKIN
REVIEW OF THE GUIDELINES, IT IS
VERY QUICK TO GET THEM UP TO AN
OFFENSE LEVEL OF 34, WHICH
TRANSLATES TO ABOUT 12 AND A
HALF TO 15 AND A HALF YEARS OF
NONCURABLE TIME AS A GUIDELINE
FOR THESE OFFENSES.
THEY COULD GET HIGHER THAN THAT.
SHE IS LOOKING AT A WEIGHTY
SENTENCE.
A LOT OF FIGHTING ABOUT THESE
GUIDELINES, BUT IS GOING TO BE
PRETTY INESCAPABLE AND SHOULD
CARRY A LOT OF TIME.
>> HUMERUS IS NOT THE RIGHT
WORDS, BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT
HER FACING 65 YEARS, BUT -- THAT
SEEMS NOT A LOT FOR THE WEIGHTS,
THE GRAVITAS OF THE SIX FEDERAL
CHARGES THAT WHICH YOU FOUND
GUILTY OF THAT INCLUDE ENTICING
MINORS ACROSS STATE LINES TO
ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ACTS.
DO YOU THINK THAT THAT SENTENCE
WOULD SEEM DISAPPOINTING AFTER
THE WEIGHT OF THESE FIVE GUILTY
COUNTS?
>> GUIDELINES ARE JUST THE
STARTING POINT, NOT THE
END POINT ANYMORE LIKE THESE TO
BE IN THE OLD DAYS.
THERE IS ROOM FOR A JUDGE TO
VARY UPWARDS, TO GO HIGHER
APPEARANCE ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT STRUCK ME THAT THE TRIAL
AND ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK IS
IMPORTANT FOR THE JURY WAS THAT
THE ENTICEMENT WAS NOT LITERALLY
JUST ENTICEMENT, PERSUASION,
TALKING.
THE TESTIMONY OF THE WOMEN ABOUT
HER ROLE IN THE DEFENSE INCLUDED
HER SEXUALLY ABUSING THEM.
SO IS A VERY ACTIVE, VERY
AGGRESSIVE, VERY CRIMINAL LEVEL
OF CULPABILITY THAT MISS MAXWELL
HAD JUST BEEN ON THE ENTICEMENT.
THAT IS THE TYPE OF THING THAT
CAN AGGRAVATE THE SENTENCING AND
ALLOW THE JUDGE TO GO HIGHER.
BUT YOU FALL INTO THE TRAP OF
TALKING ABOUT MAXIMUM PENALTIES
AS THE STARTING POINT AND A
VERILYRARELY IS.
COULD BE 50 OR 60 YEARS PAIRED
>> JASON CHAFFETZ HAS A QUESTION
FOR YOU. >> JIN
, HAVE TO BE PLEASE GETTING FIVE
AND SIX COUNTS TO GET THIS TO
GUILTY, BUT WHAT DID YOU THINK
THE STRATEGY BY THE PROSECUTORS
TO ONLY BRING FOUR OF THE
VICTIMS.
THE ACTUAL VICTIMS THEMSELVES
COME IT SEEMS LIKE A BIT OF A
RISKY STRATEGY, BUT MAY BE GIVEN
THE VERDICT, PROSECUTORS COULD
SAY THEY MADE THE RIGHT
DECISION.
>> IT IS ALWAYS EASY AFTERWARDS.
TO ANNOUNCE THAT WE WERE THE
SMARTEST PEOPLE IN THE ROOM.
BUT I THINK IT’S A GREAT
QUESTION.
I THINK THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF
A TURNING POINT, A POINT OF
DIMINISHING RETURNS, AND WE HAD
THIS ISSUE WITH THAT TRIAL TOO.
HOW MANY VICTIMS ARE GOING TO BE
ALLOWED IN.
AND THE KEY IS MULTIPLE VICTIMS
ARE CERTAINLY SELF BOLSTERING.
THEY MAKE THE CASE A LOT EASIER
FROM THE GOVERNMENT WHEN IT IS
NOT SIMPLY ONE PERSON GIVING A
STORY LIKE THIS.
SO FOR COATS ROOM AMONG
CERTAINLY SEEM TO WORK WELL
HERE.
THE OTHER THING, WHEN YOU GET
INTO DOZENS OF WITNESSES
TESTIFYING ABOUT SIMILAR
INCIDENTS, THERE IS ROOM FOR
INCONSISTENCIES.
IT MAY NOT BE ANYTHING
NEFARIOUS, AND MAY JUST BE THAT
THEY HAVE DIFFERENT MEMORIES,
DIFFERENT ABILITIES TO PERCEIVE
THINGS, BUT EVEN A BLIND
SQUIRREL STARTS FINDING A NOT
WHEN YOU GET UP TO TEN OR 15 OR
20 WITNESSES TOPPING OHMIC
TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING.
THEY WILL DISCOVER
INCONSISTENCIES TO ARGUE
REASONABLE DOUBT TO THE JURY
WHEN YOU GET THAT HIGH NUMBER OF
WITNESSES.
>> WEAVE A STATEMENT OF U.S.
ATTORNEY ON THIS VERDICT WHICH
READS A UNANIMOUS JURY HAS FOUND
GHISLAINE MAXWELL L.T. OF ONE OF
THE WORST CRIMES IMAGINABLE,
FACILITATING AND PARTICIPATING
IN THE SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN,
CRIMES THAT SHE COMMITTED WITH
HER LONGTIME PARTNER AND
COCONSPIRATOR, JEFFREY EPSTEIN.
THE ROAD TO JUSTICE HAS BEEN FAR
TOO LONG, BUT TODAY, JUST AS HAS
BEEN DONE.
I WANT TO COMMEND THE BRAVERY OF
THE GIRLS, NOW GROWN WOMAN, WHO
STEPPED OUT OF THE SHADOWS AND
INTO THE COURTROOM.
THEIR COURAGE AND WILLINGNESS TO
FACE THEIR ABUSER MADE THIS CASE
AND TODAY’S RESULT POSSIBLE.
I ALSO WANT TO THANK THE CAREER
PROSECUTORS OF NEW YORK WHO
EMBRACED THE VICTIM’S QUEST FOR
JUSTICE AND HAVE WORKED
TIRELESSLY DAY IN AND DAY OUT TO
ENSURE THAT MAXWELL WAS HELD
ACCOUNTABLE FOR HER CRIMES.
THIS OFFICE WILL ALWAYS STAND
WITH VICTIMS, WILL ALWAYS ALL
THE FACTS WHERE THEY LEAD, AND
WE WILL ALWAYS FIGHT TO ENSURE
THAT NO ONE, NO MATTER HOW
POWERFUL OR WELL-CONNECTED IS
ABOVE THE LAW.
THE STATEMENT IN THE VERDICT.
AND WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT
THAT IS THAT IT REFLECTS
SQUARELY ON THE CULPABILITY AND
ACCOUNTABILITY OF GHISLAINE
MAXWELL HERSELF.
SHE PARTICIPATED HERSELF
PHYSICALLY IN THE ABUSE.
PART OF THE INSIDIOUS NATURE OF
THE ENTICEMENT AND WHAT WAS
CALCULATED WITHIN THAT.
AND THAT BEGS THE LARGER
QUESTION THAT JASON BROUGHT UP
EARLIER, WHICH WAS DO YOU SEE
ANY TYPE OF ADDITIONAL WORK TO
PROSECUTE, TO GO AFTER THOSE
OTHERS WHO WERE COMPLICIT, OR DO
YOU SEE THAT THE BUCK STOPS ON
HER SHOULDERS PAIRED WITH THE
PUBLIC BE ABLE TO LOOK FORWARD
TO MORE BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE?
>> THAT’S A GREAT QUESTION.
AND I DON’T KNOW IS THE SHORT
ANSWER.
BUT I WILL TELL YOU THIS.
A LOT OF CAREER PROSECUTORS THAT
I KNOW THAT IF SPECIALIZED IN
CHILD ABUSE OR SEX OFFENSE CASES
ARE VERY KEEN ON GOING AFTER THE
JOHN’S AS WELL, AS THEY CALL
THEM, THE MEN THAT PARTICIPATED
IN THE ACTS WITH THESE YOUNG
WOMEN OR SOMETIMES CHILDREN.
IN THE NATURAL TENDENCY FOR
PROSECUTORS IS TO KEEP GOING.
AND FRANKLY, THERE IS EVEN A
POSSIBILITY OF MAXWELL STILL
COOPERATING.
PARTLY BECAUSE SHE DIDN’T
TESTIFY AND COMPLICATE THINGS BY
PERJURING HERSELF.
SO THERE IS STILL ROOM FOR THE
INVESTIGATION TO ROLL FORWARD TO
TRY TO TIE IN TO MAY BE VERY
HIGH-PROFILE INDIVIDUALS THAT
HUNG OUT WITH EPSTEIN AT ISLAND
AND HAVE TO SEAT -- MAYBE THEY
BEEN TRYING THAT, MAY BE RESIGN
THEMSELVES TO THIS BEING THE END
GAME PAIRED THERE IS CERTAINLY A
HIGH LEVEL OF CULPABILITY FROM
THIS MAXWELL BUT IT IS A SHAME
IF THEY FROM THE POSSIBILITY OF
PURSUING OTHER PEOPLE TOO.
>> DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR
JIN.
>> WHAT I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT
NOT BEING A LAWYER OF ANY KIND
MYSELF.
RELEGATED TO INTERPRET DATING
DOCUMENTARIES AND KNOW WHAT WE
HAVE THIS.
THE BIGGEST QUESTION IS YOU HAVE
A LOT OF HIGH-PROFILE
INDIVIDUALS HAVE BEEN EITHER
OUTRIGHT ACCUSED LIKE CHRIS
PRINCE ANDREW OR BRIAN AT THE
PUBLIC EYE ON THIS.
MY QUESTION IS, WHAT SENTENCING
COMPENSATES A 50 YEAR SENTENCE.
SHE STILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY
TO TURN EVIDENCE AND TESTIFY
AGAINST OTHERS TO REDUCE HER
SENTENCE OR DOES THIS GUILTY
VERDICT SOLIDIFY WHATEVER THAT
SENTENCE BECOMES?
>> THAT’S A GREAT QUESTION.
THERE IS STILL A MECHANISM UNDER
THE FEDERAL RULES TO ACTUALLY
ALLOW FOR REDUCTION OF SENTENCES
BASED ON COOPERATION.
FEDERAL RULE OF CRIMINAL
PROCEDURE 35 AND SOME OFFICES
USE AND MORE FREQUENTLY THAN
OTHERS.
SOME OFFICES MIGHT SAY SHE WENT
TO TRIAL, WE ARE DONE WITH THIS.
BUT OTHER TIMES BECAUSE SHE
DIDN’T TESTIFY, THEY MIGHT AT
LEAST ENTERTAIN HAVING A PROFFER
WHERE THEY SIT DOWN AND LISTEN
TO HER AND SEE WHAT YOU MIGHT BE
ABLE TO DO IN TERMS OF MOVING AN
INVESTIGATION FORWARD.
TO LEGALLY, THE MECHANISM IS
STILL THERE.
IT’S A QUESTION OF THE
PROSECUTORS AND U.S. ATTORNEY’S
OFFICE IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT
OF NEW YORK, WHETHER THEY’VE
ARTIE HAD ANY PROFFERS WITH HER
WHICH WE DON’T KNOW, THAT WERE
FAILED, IF THEY ARE WILLING TO
LISTEN OR AGAIN IF SHE IS EVEN
WILLING TO DO IT.
A BUNCH OF IFS, BUT PRACTICALLY,
THERE’S AT LEAST A POSSIBILITY
THAT AT SOME POINT AFTER HER
SENTENCING, SHE WOULD BE A
GOVERNMENT WITNESS AND WOULD BE
LOOKING AT A POTENTIAL FOR SOME
SORT OF REDUCTION IN THAT
SENTENCE.
>> JIM, LESLIE HAS A QUESTION
FOR YOU.
>> HI, JIM.
TWO QUESTIONS, JASON ASKED MY
FIRST ABOUT THE VICTIMS, BUT
SECONDLY TO THE VICTIMS, AS A
VICTIM OF SEX CRIMES, I ALWAYS
LOOK AT SITUATIONS LIKE THIS
BEING A POSITIVE IN MAKING IT
EASIER FOR PEOPLE IN THE FUTURE
TO COME FORWARD FOR THOSE THAT
FEEL THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE
VICTIMIZED AGAIN OR DEMONIZED BY
DEFENSES, THAT THE SYSTEM WILL
WORK AND THAT IT WILL BE A WASTE
OF TIME.
CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT BRIEFLY.
>> THAT’S A GREAT POINT.
I HANDLED AS A PROSECUTOR BACK
IN THE DAY.
HANDLED SEX OFFENSE CASES NOT IN
A PROFILE OF THIS TOPIC IS, BUT
YOU ALWAYS HAD THIS DYNAMIC OF
RELUCTANCE, SOMETIMES COMPOUNDED
BY CULTURAL DIVIDES, LANGUAGE
DIVIDES, INTELLIGENCE ISSUES,
ALL SORTS OF THINGS THAT MAKE
THESE VERY TOUGH CASES.
AND I TO SAY THAT THERE IS NO
SUCH THING AS PERFECT CLOSURE.
THESE VICTIMS ARE STILL CARRYING
SCARS THAT THEY WILL SCARY FOR THE
FOUL
BUT THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THE
REVERSAL OF POWER THAT IS A GOOD
THING, WHEN THE PEOPLE SITTING
IN THE DEFENDANT’S CHAIR HAVE TO
SWEAT OUT THE POWERFUL TESTIMONY
OF THESE LONG-VICTIMIZED YOUNG
WOMEN.
IT’S A GREAT MOMENT.
I HOPE IT HAS THAT KIND OF
UNIVERSAL EFFECT.
I DON’T KNOW IF THERE IS ANY WAY
TO MEASURE THIS, BUT IT IS A
GOOD MESSAGE THAT THE CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM, FOR ALL OF ITS
FLAWS, FOR ALL OF ITS
IMPERFECTIONS, IT CAN GET IT
RIGHT ALONG AND IT TAKES IT TO
KNOW THAT IN THE HIGHEST PROFILE
CASES, THAT THE VICTIMS WERE
BELIEVED AND SUPPORTED THESE
CONVICTIONS, THAT’S A GOOD
MOMENT.
>> A QUESTION FROM TYRUS.
>> HOW ARE YOU, JIM.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT POPPED MY
HEAD, BECAUSE I THINK THE WORD
CONSPIRACY IS REALLY APROPOS
BECAUSE SHE CONSPIRED TO SET UP
THESE THINGS IS A WILLING
PARTICIPANT AND I THINK IT WAS A
SLAM-DUNK FOR THE PROSECUTION.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DOES
CONCERN ME IN THIS NEW ERA OF
PANDEMICS AND COVID EFFECTS, I
KEEP HEARING THE JUDGE WAS
CONCERNED ABOUT COVID, WAS
CONCERNED ABOUT A BREAKOUT, WAS
CONCERNED ABOUT A JUROR.
IS THERE A LEG FOR AN APPEAL
HERE SAYING THE JURY WAS RUSHED,
THAT THEY WOULD TRY TO PUSH
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I COVID
BECAUSE THE JURY NOT TO -- CAN
YOU SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS ARE
TO HAPPEN IN OUR COURTROOMS?
>> LOOK, I THINK THE APPEAL IS
GOING TO BE UPHILL.
WHEN IT COMES TO MANAGING THE
JURY IN THE DELIBERATIONS, WERE
TALKING ABOUT AN ABUSE OF
DISCRETION STANDARD, WHICH MEANS
THE TRIAL JUDGE HAS TO REALLY DO
SOMETHING PRETTY BAD TO GET
REVERSED ON APPEAL.
BUT THE TIMING OF THIS IS
INTERESTING IN THAT SHE
BASICALLY LET THEM KNOW I WOULD
RATHER YOU STAY LONGER BECAUSE
COVID IS ON THE HORIZON, MIGHT
HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WITH YOU, AND
YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO SIT
THROUGH NEW YEAR’S EVE,
NEW YEAR’S DAY.
ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU HAVE A
VERDICT.
SO IT IS GOING TO MAKE ITS WAY
INTO THE DEFENSE BRIEF I WOULD
THINK, BUT THAT DOESN’T REALLY
GIVE IT ENOUGH LEGS NECESSARILY
WIN.
SO THERE IS ALWAYS AN ISSUE WHEN
IT COMES TO THINGS LIKE JURY
SELECTION AND ALSO THE
DELIBERATIONS AND DECISIONS
ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE JURY IS
SEQUESTERED.
I THINK THIS COULD MAKE ITS WAY
INTO A BRIEF, BUT I DON’T THINK
IT IS GOING TO BE ALL THAT