Christine in case, you’re wondering no. She has no Mexican descent whatsoever but
we’re going to talk to her
anyway as we begin today’s show
I want to start as I have
the last few programs on the
issue of abortion
which is not the cherry us of
subjects but it is an
important. Thorny
complicated issue and it is
front and center in our
political debate because of
this leak out of the Supreme
Court. And that leak has
touched off. Quite
a firestorm on social media.
Within the news media. People
in their everyday lives talking
with one another.
And I’m trying to at least
contribute to that conversation
in a way that is thoughtful and
responsible.
My pro-life believes
in ways that will hopefully
help persuade some people
because I think ultimately this
comes down to hearts and minds.
Persuasion and yes, even some
compromise even on an issue
where it’s sometimes difficult
to find compromises it’s not
impossible.
Just briefly on the show
yesterday.
Responded to one of these
arguments that I’ve seen a lot.
It’s sort of a snappy little
slogan that people are posting
on instagram stories are what
have you that I thought really
is weak.
And belies pretty shallow
thinking about the issue
and I mentioned it in passing
on the show and then I expanded
on it. Later on
last evening in a whole twitter
thread and then I wrote about
it today at Town Hall dot com
as well. So in case you missed
it just very briefly, what we
hear is this talking point if
you oppose abortion, don’t have
one. And that seems.
Kind of on
its face simple easy to
understand they make the point
I think it is simplistic and in
fact thats aisle.
Because the same type of
argument would not apply in
would not be accepted
on a whole host of other
issues, especially from a
progressive standpoint, I gave
a few examples. If you oppose
rape, don’t commit one.
If you oppose a war don’t
enlist to fight it. If you
don’t like the AR fifteen’s.
Or weapons of war or whatever
they’re going to call them.
Don’t buy an AR 15. Don’t buy
an assault rifle.
If you don’t like to smell
cigarettes in a bar, don’t
smoke.
If you want to limit carbon
emissions don’t drive. Or don’t
fly.
And you can see on each of
those issues, no one would
actually say well if your
personal preferences and your
values are that rape is bad the
only thing you should do about
that is just commit yourself to
not raping someone else.
Right if you believe like.
That rape is evil and should be
illegal.
The argument would be your
bodily autonomy your personal
Liberty does not allow you to
violate someone else’s bodily
autonomy or personal Liberty.
He’s a guy that’s not the same
thing except actually.
The question is the same
question. At
what point does abortion
violate someone else’s rights.
You have competing
liberties here. The right of a
woman to control her body and
the right of another human
being not to be killed.
When that unborn child becomes
a human being is a
difficult question. When is
that life, worthy of legal
protection. That is the heart
of this whole debate. Some
people say it should be
conception. Some people say it
should be birth. Most Americans
based on the polls believe that
it lies somewhere in between
maybe after the heartbeat
begins around 6 weeks maybe 12
weeks. 20 weeks
where the child starts to
become viable outside of the
mother can feel pain. Right
that is the discussion that
we’re having.
And it’s just not as simple as
dismissing it is saying well if
you don’t like it don’t have
one right people who would like
to have heavily regulated.
On firearms people who’d like
to confiscate guns, outlaw
certain guns.
Right reimpose an assault
weapons ban.
They wouldn’t accept this
answer like a well if you don’t
like those guns, then you
shouldn’t buy them. They say
except the existence of those
guns, disproportionately this
is their argument.
I’m not endorsing but they say
it disproportionately impacts
society we have to do this for
the greater good.
It’s not enough to say I’m
personally not going to buy
that type of gun if you feel
like those guns
shouldn’t be available to the
general population for whatever
reason.
Right the green people green
new deal environmentalists.
They go out of their way to say
we need collective action.
To limit carbon emissions it’s
not just individual choices
being made we have to do things
broadly as a society and the
government has a role to play.
People who might oppose a war that’s being fought by their government by their country.
I just because they’re not
going to go put on a uniform
and volunteer to go fight in
the war. That’s not the limit
of their opposition to the war.
There are broader wider
implications, there are lives
at stake.
You don’t say okay, well you
just don’t join the Army and
now sit down and be quiet.
It’s not that simple we
wouldn’t.
Really believe that those are
good or persuasive or strong
arguments in other contexts.
So the question as I said
the fundamental question is
when does life begin when is it
worthy of being protected at
what stage of pregnancy.
Reasonable disagreements on
that. As I said
most Americans
or kind of pro life with a
little bit of pro choice,
that’s what the public opinion.
Polls show.
A lot more complicated.
And I think that we
have to have these discussions.
In a
complex way. And sometimes the
results or the compromises will
be messy and an satisfactory I
can see that.
But I also think it’s important
to underscore.
That simply saying oh well if
you don’t like it. Just don’t
do it yourself that doesn’t
really cut it. On
this issue or many other
issues. I’ve just illustrated
the other one that I want to
deal with. It’s something that
I get all the time if I mention
being pro life or
make arguments against abortion
particularly later in pregnancy
which I find particularly
gruesome.
I hear and it’s not just
limited to me all the time.
Well you’re a man you can never
be pregnant.
So sit down and shut up this is
for women to talk about you
shouldn’t really have an
opinion on this.
They’re sort of a snarky joke
to be made here.
Because we just had a big fight
in a big discussion
on trans rights about whether
men can in fact be pregnant
and a lot of people argue.
Yes men can be pregnant but for
this debate
men should be quiet because
they can’t be pregnant, it does
feel a little incoherent but
let’s just set that off to the
side.
The issue here the argument if you can call it that will be generous is that if you cannot
personally be pregnant and have
to deal with. Let’s say an
unplanned pregnancy as a man
your opinion is worthless.
And this is used as a silencing tactic to tell a bunch of pro-life people to
pounds and keep them out shot
because you notice they never
tell pro choice man to be quiet
on the issue. I pro
choice man like hey you’re an
ally good for you please speak
up if you disagree near dude
well then that’s a problem
because you’re a dude. That’s
how the game is played. I don’t
think that’s intellectually
rigorous or honest at all.
Does this standard apply on
other issues.
I’m openly gay I’m
on the lgbt spectrum. I’m Jay
hit that acronym married to
a man, same sex marriage and a
lot of these questions
have been in the realm of
public debate for a long time.
Many straight people have opinions on lgbt rights. In either direction.
So the obergefell decision
which legalized gay marriage
across the country created that
right that was authored that
decision in the Supreme Court
was authored by us straight
white cisgender man justice
Kennedy.
Now was he told to be quiet.
And keep his thoughts to
himself. Because he’s not lgbt
or was he dealing with a
constitutional question.
In more recent decision
Bostock that expanded lgbt
rights was authored by Justice
Neil gorsuch a Trump appointee.
Another white straight
cisgender man should he
not really weigh in on this
stuff on these critical
constitutional questions
because he’s not personally
affected by kuz he’s not lgbt.
No of course not that’s preposterous. If you’re a straight person,
let’s just say you’re a
straight person who strongly
and passionately supports lgbt
rights and same sex marriage.
And there’s a lot of people
like that out there.
Does your voice not matter in
the debate and only
I allowed to talk about it or
people who are gay or whatever
are we the only ones who can
talk about this or debate these
things now because we’re like
what 3 to 5% of the entire
population. These are issues
that effect everyone in
different ways because I think
a lot of the proponents of gay
rights would say it’s not just
about individual people.
It’s about human rights and
human dignity and fairness and
equality and that matters to
everyone. That
exact same argument can apply
to abortion.
Where yes, I of course
understand that it’s a women’s
rights issue and a lot of ways
and I think it’s good
for men talking about this
issue to be self-aware about
that.
And not have a big blind spot
there. But also many pro lifers
are pro life
because they view it as a human
rights issue where at some
point whether its conception or
weeks later or months later.
That life is a human life,
worthy of legal protection,
therefore it is a human rights
issue there for anyone is
welcome. And comment
on it and give
their arguments and try to make
their case and to just try to
backhand. An argument and
dismiss it out of hand because
of the sex of the person making
it.
Is very lazy and demagogic and
is actually a way to avoid
an actual discussion on the
substance. Here’s another
example, taking it out of the
lgbt realm what about war.
The overwhelming majority
of people who are in active
duty combat at the front lines
in war overwhelming majority.
The overwhelming majority of
people who are wounded and
killed in action in war.
N.
Doesn’t mean there are no women
but it’s lopsided. It’s
mostly men. And it’s not really
close.
Would that mean if we were
debating a controversial war in
this country that the United
States was fighting that a
female senator got up on the
floor.
And gave a speech against the
war for her various reasons
about the conduct of the war
the righteousness of the war et
cetera.
Would it be OK if people got up
and said okay little lady,
Pat her on the head to say have
a seat
you earn your Lady parts aren’t
really that. Well represented
on the front lines. So your
opinion doesn’t really matter
very much we’ll take into
consideration, but sort of like
you know 5% 95% were to listen
to them at of course not that
would be insulting and
ridiculous.
Because it’s a matter of
national and international
import.
A lot is at stake lives are at
stake and things are being
done. Policies are being
carried out by our government.
Everyone is welcome to weigh in
on that debate. That’s what we
do in this country.
If you’re spending a lot of
your time trying to disqualify
people from sharing their
opinion and try to boil it down
to their race or their sex or
whatever. I think that says a
lot about you and your
confidence in the actual
arguments beyond all the
identity stuff.
If you have an argument to make
on abortion make it.
Don’t sit around telling other
people that they shouldn’t have
an opinion and really
aren’t allowed to come down one
way or another because they’re
in some other category. Let’s
have the discussion. Let’s
welcome people’s perspectives
on it, let’s weigh which
arguments are good and which
ones aren’t which ones are
persuasive in which ones aren’t
and let’s go through the messy
process of crafting public
policy. Let’s not say oh you
look a certain way you’re born
with this chromosome you have
this Gen Italia and therefore
you be quiet unless you agree
with me.
Intellectually bankrupt to do
that.
So there’s some of the ground
rules that I like to
layout about the debate that we
have on these issues,
especially this one.
And the prevalence of the 2
arguments that I just rebutted.
I felt like required me to come
here and respond to them
because frequently you hear
almost nothing but those 2
types of arguments. And I think
they fail fundamentally they
fail on the merits.
I’m late already we’ve got
to go. Taking our first break