today we get to see some great reminders
of why you got to know when the right
tool to use is and also why i don't like
pepper gel
hi everyone welcome to today's lesson
here at active self protection i'm your
host as always john korea and i am glad
you are here with us today today's video
comes to us from san francisco
california and today's defender is
today's guest on the ask podcast so make
sure that you hit the link in the
description to go hear his story in his
words palm pepper spray has recently
reformulated for even more effect when
you bless the deserving with the hot
sauce palm is what i use between a harsh
word and a gun and encourage everyone to
do likewise guy you see walking out here
is a shoplifter and you're gonna watch
the guy here who comes out who has lost
prevention who is a retired 30-year
corrections officer named jim again he's
today's guest on the podcast go listen
to that you'll get his first person
perspective he's to walk up to this guy
like yo man you just can't steal that
stuff whatever guy's going to get
immediately belligerent and immediately
violent and smack him in the head in the
back of the ear so jim's going to grab
his oc or his pepper gel and gel the guy
doesn't do much and when he feels that
the guy has popped him in the head with
something he draws a gun and points his
firearm at him now the guy doesn't do
anything you notice that that gel hasn't
done anything the second time he gets
him it does and in the interim jim
realized that that guy had a cell phone
in his hand that he had since thrown
away so he put his gun away and now it's
kind of a hand fight and and that oc gel
had a little bit of effect certainly not
a big full-throated effect on this guy
who though is gonna decide man that's
miserable and i've had about enough of
that and he is going to walk off now jim
did say to me that it did get a little
bit back on him his second exposure and
so he was dealing a little bit with that
he was not badly harmed again he got
whacked in the back of the head with
that cell phone uh and we're gonna talk
about the issues of his defensive force
use in just a sec okay what do you think
leave me a comment do you think this was
a good use of force do you think he did
the right thing make sure that you leave
me that and go and listen to the podcast
please man what a great story of a guy
who's got a long history in corrections
and how this event all played out i
think it's got some great lessons now
for your average private citizen for
anybody else involved here i would not
recommend getting involved in a
shoplifting issue quite frankly if it's
not your job to stop this guy it's not
your stuff you're putting yourself at
risk for someone else's money i don't
know that that's a good idea of course
when you're lost prevention that is your
job and you got to go and stop those
guys and at least make an effort do you
have the right to stop someone from
stealing your stuff absolutely i don't
know that you have an obligation to stop
them stealing the
property owner's stuff or the store
stuff or whatever certainly as a private
citizen i think that would be a poor
risk we do ask our law enforcement
officers to do that as part of their job
they accept that responsibility kind of
same thing in law in loss prevention
here so you better have some skills and
i think one of those is having your oc
in your hand already in case i have to
go with this guy i can diminish him and
that's a good thing that i think jim did
here is that he had his oc spray kind of
pre-staged now that said he got close
and the guy decides to attack him and
you see those couple of you know times
he whacked him now i came
come to find out it was with a cell
phone but he didn't know that in the
moment and that guy hit him hard and hit
him right behind the ear and kind of
rang his bell a little bit
from that position so empty-handed
skills very important and i think
emotional fitness of knowing how to
respond when you get hit hard very
important i think jim did this well here
again a long career in corrections i'm
sure he's you know had a couple dustups
will give you some experience with that
so that you can perform on that day now
gets up here and gets a good dose of oc
on the guy however again this is why i
don't like gels i don't like the gel
formulation because if you don't get it
directly in the mucous membranes right
in the eyes right up the nose right in
the mouth it can take up to two minutes
to have effect
the thing with the gel is that it
aerosolizes slowly and because it
aerosolizes slowly
you know because the the gel has to kind
of let it out gas then you can get a
delay in effect that you don't get with
sprays which is why i recommend the
spray i even know some cops like to
carry fog or mist i prefer the spray i
think it's the best all around and this
is why it doesn't really affect the guy
now of course we got to talk about this
here and i know some people are going to
ask this question of the wait a minute
this guy drew a gun on him and he ended
up being unarmed not really not yet so
he hit him very hard in the in the side
of the face and in the back of the head
with what turned out to be a cell phone
but jim couldn't identify it as a cell
phone all i know is this guy's attacked
me with some kind of weapon now it
wasn't a man-made weapon it was an
environmental weapon so so that's you
know we differentiate between something
that's purpose-built to to be used as a
weapon and something that you know
somebody just picks up and uses like a
cell phone so what just happened there
is at very least an assault and could he
reasonably believe that that was an
aggravated assault that it was likely
that that could do him some serious
injury yeah i think that it'd be very
hard to argue otherwise i also like that
he actually didn't shoot him here that
he drew his firearm and started issuing
commands to the guy to back off and get
away from him and i think that makes
this a whole lot more palatable a
defensive firearms use so so having some
skills at being able to issue commands
draw your gun and not fire i think is a
very good skill and i would suggest
backing up a little bit so the guy can't
come and get you now he did end up
apparently then tossing the phone we
can't see there there's not enough
resolution on the camera for us to see
him dropped the stuff and dropped his
phone and so now jim's got to get his
gun put away now a couple things here
that second dose
finally did something okay fine
generally speaking what we say is that
first dose especially if you use a spray
across the nose across the bridge of the
eyes across the eyes should aerosolize
quickly enough couple three four seconds
that that guy's then and again in a
number of three four five seconds gonna
stop doing things but in the gels if you
that's
what you really want to carry and i get
it that somebody's a long-term
corrections officer would be used to
gels because that's what they use in
those environments might have to give
him another one and hope to get it in
his eyes so that he can you know
actually
get some effect out of it and it did
that second one did get some effect
thankfully and i will note here that he
had to put his gun away while he was
still dealing with a bad guy now he had
the space to do so but this is why we
say one of the requirements one of the
things we want a good holster to do is
to stay open is to stay in a place where
hey wait a minute i need to get this gun
put away so i can have both hands
available to do other things because the
threat has changed the dude doesn't have
a gun and doesn't have anything in his
hands anymore recognize he doesn't have
a weapon he probably doesn't have the
ability to do me great bodily harm so i
got to put my gun away and that's why
having a holster that stays open that
you can get to is important and that's
why i strongly recommend that for all
carry now i think he does an okay job
here just kind of keeping away from this
guy and and again
i i do think here that him drawing his
gun given the totality of the
circumstances was justified i think
using the oc spray was really really
good except for it was a gel and that
gel took too long to have any good
effect which is why i recommend spray
formulations and not gel formulations
and and of course palm oc is a sponsor
we have seen it on camera many times
it's very highly effective uh and and so
i'd recommend them and and go get one of
their their sprays guys i think it's
really useful but if that's not it you
know go get another one there's only a
couple that i recommend of the ones that
i think that are good palm is the one
that has is run by a great company that
does good stuff helps us with flint
hills foster teen camps helps us to help
you know abuse and abandon foster kids
and is run by great people with a great
formula and a good product so that's why
i recommend them but otherwise go get a
spray not a gel i think this guy did a
pretty darn good job all things
considered of covering his asp
you