NOW. >>> HI, EVERYONE.
IT’S 4:00 IN WASHINGTON, D.C.
WE COME ON THE AIR WITH BREAKING
NEWS.
NEWS. ANOTHER NORM BUSTED.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES IN A WAR OF WORDS WITH
THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE UNITED
STATES SUPREME COURT.
CHEW ON THAT.
THEY SHARE A POLITICAL PARTY BUT
NOT MUCH ELSE.
IT STARTED WITH ROBERT’S REBUKE
ABOUT A FEDERAL JUDGE WHO
BLOCKED HIS ASYLUM BAN.
>> WHEN PEOPLE FILE EVERY CASE
GETS FILED IN THE 9th CIRCUIT
BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT’S NOT
LAW.
LAW. THAT’S NOT WHAT THIS COUNTRY
STANDS FOR.
STANDS FOR. THIS WAS AN OBAMA JUDGE.
AND I’LL TELL YOU WHAT.
IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN LIKE
THIS ANYMORE.
THIS ANYMORE. >> CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS WRITING
IN A STATEMENT, WE DO NOT HAVE
OBAMA JUDGES OR TRUMP JUDGES.
BUSH JUDGES OR CLINTON JUDGES.
WHAT WE HAVE IS AN EXTRAORDINARY
GROUP OF DEDICATED JUDGES DOING
THEIR LEVEL BEST TO DO EQUAL
RIGHT TO THOSE APPEARING BEFORE
THEM.
THEM. THAT INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY IS
SOMETHING WE SHOULD ALL BE
THANKFUL FOR.
THANKFUL FOR. AND NOTING JUST HOW RARE THE
REBUKE WAS, THE AP REPORTS, IT’S
THE FIRST TIME THE
REPUBLICAN-APPOINTED LEADER OF
THE FEDERAL JUDICIARY HAS
OFFERED EVEN A HINT OF CRITICISM
OF TRUMP WHO HAS PREVIOUSLY
BLASTED FEDERAL JUDGES WHO RULED
AGAINST HIM.
AGAINST HIM. THE PRESIDENT RESPONDING ON
TWITTER, PART ONE.
EAGERLY AWAITING PART TWO FROM
THOSE THREE DOTS AT THE BOTTOM.
SORRY, CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN
ROBERTS BUT YOU, DO INDEED HAVE
OBAMA JUDGES AND THEY HAVE A
MUCH DIFFERENT POINT VIEW OF
THAN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CHARGED
WITH THE SAFETY OF OUR COUNTRY.
IT WOULD BE GREAT IF THE 9th
CIRCUIT WAS AN INDEPENDENT
JUDICIARY.
JUDICIARY. BUT IF IT IS, WHY --
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES STILL THINKING ABOUT
THAT.
THAT. TWO FORMER U.S. ATTORNEYS, JOYCE
VANCE AND CHUCK ROSENBERG, BOTH
MSNBC CONTRIBUTORS.
MSNBC CONTRIBUTORS. "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTER
MIKE SCHMIDT WHOSE BYLINE GOT A
BIG NEW DEVELOPMENT IN THE
MUELLER PROBE WE’LL BE GETTING
TO SOON.
TO SOON. AND AARON BLAKE FOR "THE
WASHINGTON POST."
WASHINGTON POST." NOT ON THE MUELLER PROBE, ON THE
PRESIDENT’S CONDUCT VIS-A-VIS
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
LET ME START WITH YOU JOYCE AND
CHUCK.
CHUCK. THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME
COURT ISSUING WHAT WAS A RARE
CRITICISM OF THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES ON HIS
UNPRECEDENTED ATTACKS ON THE
FEDERAL JUDICIARY AND THE
PRESIDENT RESPONDING ON TWITTER
MOMENTS AGO.
MOMENTS AGO. JOYCE?
JOYCE? >> IS THAT FOR ME FIRST?
>> YES.
>> YES. >> SO THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY
MOMENT TO HAVE THE CHIEF JUSTICE
WHO HAS SHOWN IMPECCABLE
RESTRAINT IN THE FACE OF
CRITICISM OF THE JUDICIARY, WHO
HAS REFUSED TO ENTER THE FRAY.
WHO FINALLY FEELS THE NEED TO
MAKE SURE THAT THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT ALL OF US
AS LAWYERS KNOW, WHICH IS THAT
THE JUDICIARY IS INDEPENDENT.
IT’S STRONG.
IT’S STRONG. FEDERAL JUDGES DON’T THINK OF
THEMSELVES IN TERMS OF THE
PRESIDENT WHO APPOINTED THEM.
BUT THEY BUILDINGELIEVE THEY THE
TO UPHOLD THE RULE LAYOFF AND
LEAVE THEIR POLITICS AT THE DOOR
WHEN THEY ENTER THE COURTHOUSE
EVERY MORNING.
EVERY MORNING. IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT I KNOW
THE JUDGE WHO ISSUED THIS
RULING, JUDGE TIGER, IN SAN
FRANCISCO.
FRANCISCO. HE IS AN OBAMA APPOINTEE TO THE
FEDERAL JUDGE.
FEDERAL JUDGE. BEFORE THAT A TRIAL JUDGE IN
CALIFORNIA.
CALIFORNIA. HE’S AN EXTRAORDINARILY THOUGHT
OF JUDGE.
OF JUDGE. CLERKED IN THE 11th CIRCUIT FOR
MY FATHER-IN-LAW BUT HE’S
STRAIGHT UP THE MIDDLE ON THIS.
I’M GLAD TO SEE THE CHIEF
JUSTICE GO TO BAT TO SHOW THAT
WE CAN RELY ON OUR JUDGES TO BE
A CHECK AND BALANCE, EVEN IN
THIS DAY AND AGE.
>> I KNOW A LITTLE BIT FROM YOUR
APPEARANCES ON OUR NETWORK AND
OUR CONVERSATIONS OFF TV HOW
DIFFICULT IT IS FOR PEOPLE
STEEPED IN THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT, PEOPLE STEEPED IN
THE FEDERAL JUDICIARY TO SPEAK
OUT AT ALL ON ANY QUESTION OF
POLITICS.
POLITICS. THE BAR IS HIGHER THAN IT IS FOR
PEOPLE LIKE ME AND PEOPLE WHO
HAVE SPENT THEIR CAREERS IN
POLITICS.
POLITICS. TALK ABOUT WHAT MUST HAVE BEEN
GOING ON INSIDE CHIEF JUSTICE
ROBERTS’ MIND TO TAKE THIS STEP
OF REBUKING THE PRESIDENT.
>> IT IS EXTRAORDINARY, NICOLLE.
BUT I’M GLAD HE DID IT.
NOBODY WANTS TO ENTER THE
POLITICAL FRAY IF YOU DON’T WANT
TO, AND THE LAST GROUP OF PEOPLE
WHO DON’T WANT TO ENTER THE
POLITICAL FRAY ARE FEDERAL
JUDGES.
JUDGES. CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS IS IN A
SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT POSITION.
HE’S THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE
SUPREME COURT.
SUPREME COURT. HIS WORDS MATTER A LOT.
HE SPEAKS FOR THE FEDERAL
JUDICIARY.
JUDICIARY. BY THE WAY, I COULDN’T AGREE
WITH JOYCE MORE, BUT I HAVE A
POINT TO ADD.
AND I SUSPECT SHE MIGHT AGREE
WITH IT AS WELL.
THIS IS PET PEEVE TERRITORY FOR
ME BECAUSE YOU READ ALL THE TIME
IN VERY GOOD NEWSPAPERS THAT
THIS JUDGE OR THAT JUDGE RULED
ON A PARTICULAR ISSUE IN A
PARTICULAR CASE, COMMA AND, BY
THE WAY, THEY WERE APPOINTED BY
PRESIDENT BUSH OR CLINTON OR
WHAT HAVE YOU.
I’VE SPENT YEARS IN FEDERAL
COURT IN FRONT OF DOZENS OF
JUDGES ON HUNDREDS OF ARGUMENTS.
SCORES OF TRIALS.
AND I NEVER, EVER THOUGHT OF
THEM AS AN OBAMA APPOINTEE OR
CLINTON APPOINTEE.
CLINTON APPOINTEE. THAT’S NOT WHAT THEY ARE.
THERE’S A REASON THEY HAVE
LIFETIME TENURE.
LIFETIME TENURE. THEY ARE INDEPENDENT.
I THINK CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS IS
SPOT ON.
SPOT ON. I’M GLAD HE DID THIS.
>> JOYCE VANCE, IT’S NOT THE
FIRST FIGHT OR DEBATE THAT THE
PRESIDENT HAS HAD WITH A
HIGH-PROFILE JUDGE.
HIGH-PROFILE JUDGE. DURING THE CAMPAIGN, JUDGE
CURIEL WHO HE ATTACKED EDED VICI
AND MADE EVEN HIS OWN SUPPORTERS
UNCOMFORTABLE.
UNCOMFORTABLE. HE NEVER SEES ANYONE IN ANY JOB
AS SEPARATE FROM HIS OWN KWEETS
EQUITIES.
EQUITIES. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT IT MUST
BE LIKE TO BE A FEDERAL JUDGE
UNDER THIS PRESIDENT?
>> MY SUSPICION IS THE FEDERAL
JUDGES DO ABOUT THE SAME THING
THAT BOB MUELLER AND HIS
PROSECUTORS DO.
PROSECUTORS DO. THEY HEAR, THEY LISTEN, THEY’RE
HUMAN, AND THEN THEY SET IT
ASIDE AND GO BACK ABOUT THEIR
WORK.
WORK. ONE THING THAT YOU DO IF YOU ARE
A MEMBER OF THE JUDICIARY OR A
FEDERAL PROSECUTOR IS THAT YOU
LEARN TO KEEP YOURSELF INSULATED
FROM POLITICAL GOINGS ON IN THE
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. THEY DON’T HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY
IN YOUR WORK.
THEY ARE NOT ANYTHING MORE THAN
A PASSING CURIOSITY.
I THINK IT’S HARD FOR PEOPLE TO
BELIEVE THIS SOMETIMES BUT MY
OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE LEADS ME
TO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE JUDGES
ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WHO ARE
SAYING, OKAY, YOU KNOW, THIS,
TOO, WILL PASS.
NOW WE’VE GOT CASES TO DECIDE
AND PARTIES TO SEND ON THEIR WAY
WITH THE DECISIONS THAT WE MAKE
SO THAT THEY CAN GET ON WITH
THEIR LIVES.
THEIR LIVES. >> CHUCK ROSENBERG, THIS, TOO,
SHALL PASS IS WHAT WE ALL SAY
AROUND OUR TABLE EVERY DAY.
BUT DO YOU SEE THIS AS AN
ESCALATION?
ESCALATION? WE SAY THIS, TOO, SHALL PASS
ABOUT THE PRESIDENT’S ATTACKS ON
THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY.
AND THIS WEEK HE DISREGARDED THE
ASSESSMENT ABOUT THE CROWN
PRINCE OF SAUDI ARABIA’S ROLE IN
THE KILLING OF AN AMERICAN U.S.
PERMANENT RESIDENT.
PERMANENT RESIDENT. WE SAY THIS, TOO, SHALL PASS AND
THE ATTACKS ON THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT JUST KEEP GOING.
IS THIS TOO SHALL PASS THE RIGHT
POSTURE OR WAS WHAT ROBERTS WAS
RESPONDING TO WAS A SENSE OF
ALARM?
ALARM? >> I THINK WE WILL NOW SEE A
DE-ESCALATION, AT LEAST WITH
RESPECT TO THIS DISPUTE BETWEEN
THESE TWO MEN.
JUSTICE -- CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS
SAID HIS PIECE.
I’M GLAD HE DID.
FEDERAL JUDGES AROUND THE
COUNTRY, REGARDLESS OF WHO
APPOINTED THEM WILL SHAKE THEIR
HEADS, SIGH AND GO BACK TO WORK.
AND SO I DON’T EXPECT THAT THIS
DEBATE WILL BE JOINED ANY
FURTHER BY THE CHIEF JUSTICE.
HE SAID THAT HE HAD TO SAY.
I’M GLAD HE DID IT.
AND THIS, TOO, SHALL PASS,
NICOLLE.
NICOLLE. >> IT WILL PASS -- I AGREE WITH
THE IDEA THAT, I THINK CHUCK AND
JOYCE ARE SPEAKING WITH THE
MIND-SET AND PERSPECTIVE OF
PEOPLE LIKE CHIEF JUSTICE
ROBERTS BUT IT WON’T PASS FOR
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP. WHEN WE CAME ON THE AIR, THERE
WERE THREE DOTS.
WE’RE AWAITING PART TWO OF HIS
TWEET STORM.
TWEET STORM. SO HOW THERE IS AN ASYMMETRY
WITH TRUMP BECAUSE HE RESIDES IN
THE GUTTER.
THE GUTTER. CHIEF JUSTICE ROESHTSBERTS DOESN
RESIDE IN THE GUTTER.
YOU DID INCREDIBLE REPORTING
YESTERDAY ABOUT ALL THE
HYPOCRISY OF THE PRESIDENT’S
ATTACKS ON HILLARY CLINTON AND
ON OTHERS.
ON OTHERS. AND THIS ISN’T THAT, BUT THIS IS
ANOTHER NORM-BUSTING DAY.
>> AND IT’S A CONTINUATION OF A
WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
WE MENTIONED THE EXAMPLE OF
JUDGE CURIEL DURING THE 2016
CAMPAIGN.
CAMPAIGN. ALSO THE INSTANCE EARLY IN HIS
PRESIDENCY WHEN HE MADE COMMENTS
SIMILAR TO THE OBAMA JUDGE
COMMENTS AND JUSTICE WHO WAS
THEN THE NOMINEE GORSUCH ALSO
REBUKED HIM IN A SIMILAR WAY TO
HOW JUSTICE ROBERTS IS RIGHT
NOW.
NOW. THIS ALSO CONNECTS TO THE STORY
WE’LL TALK ABOUT LATER THAT
MICHAEL WROTE FOR "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" WHERE THE PRESIDENT IS
BASICALLY OVERSTEPPING AND
TRYING TO USE THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT AS HIS OWN POLITICAL
ARM.
ARM. HE IS TRYING TO BREAK DOWN KIND
OF THESE TRADITIONAL BARRIERS.
AND THE FACT THAT HE IS NOW
FEUDING WITH HIS OWN CHIEF
JUSTICE, A GUY WHO COULD RULE IN
HIS FAVOR ON SIGNIFICANT PIECES
OF JUDICIARY BUSINESS IN THE
COMING WEEKS AND MONTHS IS
RATHER REMARKABLE.
RATHER REMARKABLE. AND I THINK SPEAKS TO THE
CONTINUED EROSION OF OUR
INSTITUTIONS.
INSTITUTIONS. >> IT’S HARD TO NOT SEE THIS AS
DONALD TRUMP HAVING AN INFLUENCE
AND AN IMPACT ON YET AGAIN
ANOTHER INSTITUTION, AS YOU JUST
SAID, THE SUPREME COURT THIS
TIME.
TIME. >> IT’S ALSO THIS LARGER THEME
WHERE DONALD TRUMP CAME TO
WASHINGTON AND ALL OF THE
NUANCES AND THINGS THAT PEOPLE
IN WASHINGTON TAKE SO SERIOUSLY,
KEEPING THE FBI AT ARM’S
DISTANCE.
DISTANCE. NOT TALKING ABOUT THE JUDICIARY,
NOT TALKING ABOUT THE STOCK
MARKET.
MARKET. HE CONTINUES TO JUST RUN INTO
THE FACE OF THAT.
HE NEVER WAS GOING TO CHANGE,
AND HE HASN’T CHANGED.
AND HE HAS NOT CHANGED EVEN
THOUGH HE’S BEEN UNDER
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THIS
BEHAVIOR HAS BROUGHT HIM UNDER
INVESTIGATION FOR OBSTRUCTING
JUSTICE.
JUSTICE. AND THIS JUST GOES RIGHT INTO
THAT STORY.
THAT STORY. >> IT IS A DIRECT LINE.
AS YOU MENTIONED, YOU ARE HERE
TO TALK ABOUT A STORY ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT WANTING TO USE DOJ AND
THE FBI ESSENTIALLY THE WAY
OTHER PRESIDENTS OF BOTH PARTIES
HAVE USED THE RNC AND DNC TO
PROSECUTE BASICALLY PUBLIC
RELATIONS CASES AGAINST THESE
POLITICAL OPPONENTS AND ENEMIES.
BUT IT DOES SEEM THAT THE BAR IS
SO HIGH FOR SOME OF THESE PEOPLE
TO ENGAGE.
TO ENGAGE. DO YOU THINK AT THE END OF THE
DAY MORE HARM IS DONE TO DONALD
TRUMP OR TO THE SUPREME COURT?
>> POLITICALLY SPEAKING, I DON’T
SEE ANY REALLY HARM IN -- FOR
DONALD TRUMP IN THIS.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHILE
IT’S A WELL-TAKEN POINT THIS IS
AN IDEAL OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM
THAT THESE JUDGES NOT BE JUDGED
ACCORDING TO WHO THEY WERE
APPOINTED BY, THIS IS SOMETHING
THAT ALL OF US ARE AWARE OF.
AND SO WHEN WE SEE SOME OF
PRESIDENT TRUMP’S EXECUTIVE
ORDERS BEING STRUCK DOWN BY A
JUDGE OUT IN SAN FRANCISCO, WE
ALL KIND OF IMMEDIATELY LOOK AT
THAT AND SAY, WELL, THIS WAS
PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, A MORE
LIBERAL JUDGE OR OBAMA
APPOINTEE.
APPOINTEE. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS
OUTSIDE OF THE POLITICAL
DISCUSSION BUT ONCE IT IS VERY
DELICATE AND ONCE YOU TAKE IT
BEYOND JUST MENTIONING WHO THESE
JUDGES WERE APPOINTED BY AND YOU
SAY THESE ARE BASICALLY DOING
THE BIDDING OF BARACK OBAMA, YOU
ARE STEPPING OVER A LINE AND
TAKING A DELICATE SITUATION THAT
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE GENERALLY
DON’T UNDERSTAND AND CAN BE VERY
EASILY INFLUENCED ON.
AND THAT CAN HAVE A SIGNIFICANT
IMPACT.
IMPACT. >> DO WE HAVE -- THE PRESIDENT
HAS FINISHED HIS THOUGHT.
LET’S SEE IF WE HAVE THAT.
SORRY CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN
ROBERTS, BUT YOU DO HAVE OBAMA
JUDGES.
JUDGES. AND THEY HAVE A MUCH DIFFERENT
POINT OF VIEW THAN THE PEOPLE
WHO ARE CHARGED WITH THE SAFETY
OF OUR COUNTRY.
IT WOULD BE GREAT IF THE NINTH
CIRCUIT WAS AN INDEPENDENT
JUDICIARY BUT IF IT IS, WHY,
DOT, DOT, DOT, ARE SO MANY
OPPOSING VIEW ON BORDER AND
SAFETY CASES FILED THERE.
AND WHY ARE A VAST NUMBER OF
THOSE CASES OVERTURNED.
PLEASE STUDY THE NUMBERS.
THEY ARE SHOCKING.
WE NEED PROTECTION AND SECURITY.
THESE RULINGS ARE MAKING OUR
COUNTRY UNSAFE.
COUNTRY UNSAFE. VERY DANGEROUS AND UNWISE.
SO I GUESS THE CARAVAN RAN OUT
OF ITS POLITICAL USEFULNESS TO
HIM.
HIM. HE’S NOW BEATING UP ON THE 9th
CIRCUIT, CHUCK.
CIRCUIT, CHUCK. THAT DOES SEEM LIKE A TRUMPIAN
TACTIC AND A VERY, VERY
POLITICAL ARGUMENT FROM THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. >> IT SAY POLITICAL ARGUMENT
FROM THE PRESIDENT.
WE SHOULDN’T BE SURPRISED BY
THAT.
THAT. BUT IF I MAY HUMBLY OFFER A
BRIEF HISTORY LESSON, IN U.S. V.
NIXON, THE SUPREME COURT CASE IN
WHICH THE SUPREME COURT RULED
UNANIMOUSLY, ONE JUSTICE
RECUSED, AGAINST THE PRESIDENT,
FOUR OF THOSE JUDGES WERE
APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT NIXON.
IN CLINTON V. JONES IN WHICH THE
SUPREME COURT RULED UNANIMOUSLY,
9-0, AGAINST PRESIDENT CLINTON,
TWO OF THOSE JUDGES WERE
APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT CLINTON.
THIS IS WHAT WE MEAN WHEN WE
TALK ABOUT THE INDEPENDENCE OF
OUR ARTICLE 3 JUDGES.
AND SO THE PRESIDENT IS A
POLITICAL ACTOR AND THE HEAD OF
THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.
BUT THE JUDGES ARE NOT POLITICAL
ACTORS.
ACTORS. REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT
CALLS THEM.
CALLS THEM. THEY ARE SIMPLY NOT THAT.
>> MIKE, YOU ARE REPORTING ON
THE FLASH POINTS AND THE
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
INVESTIGATION REVEAL, AT BEST,
GRAVE IGNORANCE ABOUT WHAT CHUCK
IS, I THINK, DESCRIBING.
THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE
JUDICIARY.
JUDICIARY. GRAVE IGNORANCE OR MALFEASANCE
ABOUT THE FBI AND DOJ.
HOW GOES THE EDUCATION OF DONALD
TRUMP FROM HIS LAWYERS, FROM HIS
WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL’S OFFICE
FROM FIGURES AT DOJ WHO INTERACT
WITH THEM?
WITH THEM? >> THERE’S A THING WE’RE MISSING
HERE WHICH IS THE PRESIDENT
COULD FIND HIMSELF IN A FIGHT
WITH THE SUPREME COURT.
SO IF MUELLER WANTS TO SUBPOENA
HIM AND WANTS HIM TO ANSWER
QUESTIONS, THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN,
TRUMP WILL SEE HIMSELF IN
ADVERSARIAL POSITION WITH THE
SUPREME COURT AND JOHN ROBERTS
IS GOING TO BE IN CHARGE OF
MAKING THAT DECISION.
IF THERE’S A SUBPOENA FIGHT IT
WILL PROBABLY END UP IN THE
SUPREME COURT.
SUPREME COURT. THIS IS AN INTERESTING
FORESHADOW HERE WHERE, YOU KNOW,
THE PRESIDENT DIDN’T GO OUT TO
PICK A FIGHT BUT HE’S PUSHING
BACK AND MAYBE IN SIX MONTHS,
THE FATE OF A SUBPOENA IS
SITTING IN FRONT OF THE CHIEF
JUDGE.
JUDGE. I CAN’T IMAGINE THIS FIGHT WOULD
IMPACT THAT BUT IT ADDS TO THE
DRAMA OF WHAT COULD COME.
>> IT DOES SHOW US HOW DONALD
TRUMP WILL APPROACH ANY FIGHT
WITH THE SUPREME COURT OR ANY
DECISION-MAKING PROCESS THAT
ENDS UP THERE ABOUT A SUBPOENA
FOR HIM.
FOR HIM. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. ANY FIGHT THAT HE LOSES IN COURT
WILL BE THE FAULT OF HIS
POLITICAL ENEMIES.
POLITICAL ENEMIES. JUST LIKE HE WANTED DOJ TO
PROSECUTE HIS POLITICAL ENEMIES,
HE’LL GO AFTER JUDGES.
AND WHEN HE DOES THIS, I DON’T
THINK THAT WE CAN SAY THIS
ENOUGH, NICOLLE.
ENOUGH, NICOLLE. HE CONTINUES TO ERODE THESE
FOUNDATIONAL ELEMENTS OF OUR
CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC THAT ARE
CRITICAL TO OUR SYSTEM OF
FUNCTIONING THE WAY IT’S
SUPPOSED TO.
SUPPOSED TO. TRUMP DOESN’T BELIEVE IN CHECKS
AND BALANCES.
AND BALANCES. HE DOESN’T BELIEVE IN AN
INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY.
INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY. HE DOESN’T BELIEVE IN AN
INDEPENDENT JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
INSTEAD HE WANTS TO BRING THEM
IN AS POLITICAL ARMS OF HIS
ADMINISTRATION.
ADMINISTRATION. AND THAT’S AS DANGEROUS FOR
PEOPLE IN THE FUTURE WHO DON’T
KNOW WHO THE PRESIDENT MIGHT BE
DOWN THE ROAD BUT MIGHT NEED AN
INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY TO SUPPORT
THEM AND ENSURE THEY ARE TREATED
FAIRLY AS IT IS FOR US TODAY AS
WE APPROACH TRUMP TRYING TO
ERODE ALL OF THESE NORMS THAT
ARE SO CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.
>> THE POLITICS OF THIS SEEM
LIKE A GIANT LOSER FOR
REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS. AND I HAVEN’T SEEN -- I -- WE’VE
BEEN ON THE AIR ABOUT 15
MINUTES.
MINUTES. I REPORT IS SEEN IF ANY
REPUBLICANS HAVE COME TO JOHN
ROBERTS’ DEFENSE.
ROBERTS’ DEFENSE. FOR A WHILE, PRE-TRUMP, HE WAS
ONE OF THE -- HIS APPOINTMENT AS
CHIEF JUSTICE WAS ONE OF THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY’S GREATEST
ACCOMPLISHMENT.
ACCOMPLISHMENT. NOW TRUMP THE REPUBLICAN
PRESIDENT ATTACKING HIM.
DO YOU THINK THERE’S ANY
SUSPENSE IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT SIDE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE
COME DOWN ON OR IS THIS TRUMP’S
PARTY EVEN IF THE CHIEF JUSTICE
IS THE TARGET?
>> AS WITH MOST ISSUES WITH
TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY,
IT’S NOT A MATTER OF WHETHER
THEY COME UP OUT AND LINE UP
BEHIND HIM OR AGAINST HIM.
IT’S A MATTER OF WHETHER THEY
SAY ANYTHING.
SAY ANYTHING. TO THE EXTENT A SAY SOMETHING
THAT WILL BE CRITICAL OF THIS,
THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN
THE INSTITUTION OF THE SENATE,
THE INSTITUTIONS OF THE AMERICAN
GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING THE
JUDICIARY.
JUDICIARY. SO IF THEY SAY SOMETHING IT IS
GOING TO BE CRITICAL OF WHAT THE
PRESIDENT IS DOING RIGHT NOW.
BUT WHAT WE’RE SEEING MORE AND
MORE IS THAT THEY ARE JUST NOT
SAYING ANYTHING.
SAYING ANYTHING. THEY DON’T SEE THE FIGHT AS
BEING WORTH IT.
THEY SEE THE PRESIDENT HITTING
BACK AGAINST CRITICS, AND THEY
RECOGNIZE THAT WHATEVER THEY SAY
IT’S JUST GOING TO BLOW BACK ON
THEM WITH THE BASE.
>> THIS SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT EVEN THE PRESIDENT’S
APPOINTEES IN THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT HAVE BEEN SURPRISED
BY.
BY. WHEN DEVIN NUNES GOES AFTER THEM
AND WANTS TO CLASSIFY FISA
APPLICATIONS AND BUST NORMS IN
TERMS OF HOW THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT RUNS INVESTIGATIONS,
THERE’S BEEN SOME SURPRISE THAT
NO REPUBLICANS CAME OUT IN THEIR
DEFENSE AND, IN FACT, WITH
DEMOCRATS TAKING OVER THE HOUSE,
THERE ARE SOME LOOKING FORWARD
TO HAVING A BACKSTOP THERE.
DO YOU PICK UP ANY SENSE OF
SURPRISE FROM FOLKS IN LAW
ENFORCEMENT THAT THERE ARE NO
VOICES IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
THAT GO AGAINST TRUMP ON THESE?
>> IF THIS BEHAVIOR CONTINUES,
AT WHAT POINT WILL THEY SAY
SOMETHING?
SOMETHING? WHAT WILL BE THE BREAKING POINT?
TRUMP CONSTANTLY --
>> YOU’D THINK WE’VE SEEN IT BY
NOW.
NOW. >> HE GOES UP TO THIS LINE.
SEVERAL REPUBLICANS CRITICIZE
HIM BUT IT DOESN’T GO ANY
FURTHER.
FURTHER. WHAT WOULD TRUMP HAVE TO DO TO
PUSH SNEMTHEM?
PUSH SNEMTHEM? WHAT WOULD CHANGE THAT?
IF HE FIRED MUELLER?
IF HE TRIED TO MAKE THE ACTING
ATTORNEY GENERAL THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL PERMANENTLY?
GENERAL PERMANENTLY? I DON’T KNOW.
THAT’S WHAT WE HAVE TO WATCH
GOING FORWARD.
GOING FORWARD. IF TRUMP GOES ANY FURTHER, HE
WALKS UP TO THIS LINE, YOU KNOW,
A LITTLE BIT GRAY ENOUGH FOR THE