I SAID I WANT TO BE A SCIENTIST.
HE SAID GIRLS DON’T DO THAT.
I SAID WELL THIS GIRL IS GOING TO DO THAT.
TO DO THAT.
>> JOINING ME NOW IS WALTER
ISAACSON, AUTHOR OF "THE CODE
BREAKER."
WALTER, IT IS SO GREAT TO SEE
YOU.
I HAVE BEEN SO EXCITED ABOUT
YOUR NEW BOOK AND TO TALK THIS.
YOU, OF COURSE, HAVE WRITTEN
AWARD-WINNING BIOGRAPHIES OF
ALBERT EINSTEIN, STEVE JOBS AND
OTHERS.
WHY DID YOU CHOOSE JENNIFER
DOUDNA?
>> I DO BELIEVE THE SCIENCE IS
IN THE LIFE-SIZE REVOLUTION AND
I DIDN’T EVEN THINK ABOUT
VACCINES, BUT THAT’S ONE THING
AND MAKING MOLECULES, SOMETHING
WE CAN REPROGRAM LIKE
MICROCHIPS, I THOUGHT THAT WOULD
BE THE BIGGEST REVOLUTION OF OUR
TIME, EVEN BIGGER THAN THE
DIGITAL REVOLUTION.
THEN I MET JENNIFER DOUDNA.
AS YOU SAID IN THE INTRODUCTION,
SHE HAS THIS GREAT LIFE STORY.
SHE PERSISTED TO BECOME A
SCIENTIST AFTER HER HIGH SCHOOL
GUIDANCE COUNSELOR TOLD HER
GIRLS DON’T DO SCIENCE AND
FOCUSES ON RNA WHEN A LOT OF
MALE BIOLOGISTS FOCUSED ON DNA.
AND SHE WON THE NOBEL PRIZE FOR
THIS GROUND-BREAKING THING WHICH ALLOWS US TO EDIT OUR OWN GENES.
ALLOWS US TO EDIT OUR OWN GENES.
>> CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT CRISPR
IS IN LAYMAN’S TERMS, INCLUDING
MYSELF, NONSCIENTISTS, SOMETHING
ABOUT BACTERIA FOR MILLENNIA.
>> IF BACTERIA HAD BEEN DOING IT
FOR A BILLION YEARS, IT CAN’T BE
ALL THAT COMPLICATED.
THEY’RE NOT MUCH SMARTER THAN WE
ARE.
WHAT THEY DO IS TAKE A MUGSHOT
EVERY TIME THEY GET ATTACKED BY
A VIRUS, LITTLE SNIPPET OF A
GENETIC CODE, AND THEY WEAVE IT
INTO THEIR OWN DNA AND SEQUENCES
KNOWN AS CRISPRS.
SO IF THAT BACTERIA GETS
ATTACKED BY THAT VIRUS, IT KNOWS
HOW TO CHOP IT UP AND DESTROY
IT.
IN OTHER WORDS, IT’S AN IMMUNE
SYSTEM THAT ADAPTS TO EACH NEW
WAVE OF VIRUS, WHICH IS CLEARLY
SOMETHING WE CAN USE IN THIS
PANDEMIC.
WHAT JENNIFER DOUDNA AND JAY AND
OTHERS FIGURED OUT IS RECAN
REPURPOSE THIS.
BECAUSE IF BACTERIA USE IT THIS
WAY, WE CAN RE-ENGINEER IT SO IT
WILL CUT OUR OWN DNA AT A TARGET
WE SPECIFY.
SO CRISPR IS A GENE EDITING TOOL
USING RNA AS A GUIDE TO CHOP UP
OUR GENES WHEREVER WE TELL IT
TO.
>> LET’S TALK ABOUT THE ETHICAL
CONCERNS, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
HELPING TO CURE VICTORIA GRAY,
THE WOMAN IN MISSISSIPPI WITH
SICKLE CELL BY DOING IT TO
SOMEONE WHO SUFFERED FROM THIS
MUTATION, SICKLE CELL MUTATION,
AND DOING IT IN UTERO WITH A
FETUS FOR INHERITED GENES, IS
THAT THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN
WHAT WAS DONE IN MISSISSIPPI AND
WHAT -- WHAT THESE CHINESE
SCIENTIST DID?
>> ABSOLUTELY, AND IT’S AN
IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.
WHEN JENNIFER DOUDNA HELPED
CREATE THIS TECHNOLOGY, SHE HAD
A NIGHTMARE WHICH SOMEONE WANTED
TO MEET HER AND LEARN ABOUT IT
AND SHE GOES INTO THE ROOM AND
THE PERSON LOOKS UP AND IT’S
HITLER.
AND SHE REALIZES IN THE WRONG
HANDS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DO
INHERITED GENETIC EDITS, ONES
THAT WILL BE PASSED DOWN TO
CHILDREN AND TO ALL OF OUR
DESCENDANTS, EDITING THE HUMAN
RACE, THAT CAN BE DEFINITELY
MISUSED.
SO PART OF THE BOOK IS JENNIFER
DOUDNA, ALONG WITH OTHER
SCIENTISTS, ENVIRONMENT
ETHICISTS, REGIS LEADERS,
INCLUDING THE CHINESE WHO
ARRESTED THE DOCTOR AFTER HE DID
IT, SO THEY CAN FIND RULES OF
THE ROAD AND PROBABLY A LINE
THAT WE DRAW WHICH SAYS UNLESS
SOMETHING IS TRULY MEDICALLY
NECESSARY, WE DEFINITELY SHOULD
NOT MAKE INHERITABLE GENETIC
EDITS.
WE CAN MAKE MISTAKES, IT’S
UNSAFE AND WE DON’T WANT TO MESS
TOO MUCH WITH THE HUMAN SPECIES.
I THINK THIS IS THE TYPE OF
THING PEOPLE LIKE TONY BLINKEN
AND BLAKE SULLIVAN WHO ARE IN
ALASKA AND WILL TALK WITH THE
CHINESE, THEY HAVE A LOT TO
FIGHT OVER.
BUT I HOPE IT’S ON THE LIST TO
FIGHT OVER AND CRISPR’S AT THE
TOP OF THE LIST.
>> JUST ONE THING AFTER THE
HORRIBLE YEAR WITH THE PANDEMIC,
IF YOU HAD THE CHOICE AND
SCIENTISTS HAD THE CHOICE TO
GENETICALLY EDIT THE CORONAVIRUS
OUT OF OUR SYSTEMS, OUT OF THE
SYSTEMS OF FUTURE CHILDREN,
FUTURE GENERATIONS, WOULD THAT
BE WORTH IT?
OR AGAIN IS IT PLAYING GOD IN A
BAD WAY?
>> I LOVE THE WAY YOU ASK THAT
QUESTION BECAUSE WE SHOULD OPEN
OUR MINDS A BIT.
I THINK JENNIFER DOUDNA, A LOT
OF PEOPLE IN THE BOOK, INCLUDING
MYSELF, HAD SORT OF A REVERSE TO
THE CHINESE DOCTOR EDITING A
RECEPTOR TO A VIRUS.
BUT AFTER THE PAST YEAR, YOU
HAVE TO AT LEAST DO THE THOUGHT
EXPERIMENT, WHICH IS WHAT WOULD
BE WRONG IF WE COULD DO IT
SAFELY TO EDIT OUR SPECIES TO BE
A LITTLE BIT LESS SUSCEPTIBLE TO
VIRUSES?
AND I THINK SOMETIMES WHEN I
TALK ABOUT HOW DANGEROUS THIS
COULD BE IN THE WRONG HANDS OR
WHATEVER, I START GETTING PLENTY
OF QUESTIONS FROM PEOPLE WHO
SAY, MY 12-YEAR-OLD
GRANDDAUGHTER HAS THIS GENETIC
DISEASE AND THEY THINK SHE’S
GOING TO DIE IN THREE YEARS, OR
MY SON IS CRIPPLES BECAUSE OF
THIS AND HIS MUSCLES ARE
ATROPHYING.
SO I THINK WE HAVE TO BE OPEN
AND NOT JUST HAVE THE KNEE-JERK
REACTION THAT GENE EDITING IS
BAD.
WE HAVE TO SAY, WHAT ARE GOING
TO BE THE RULES SO WE CAN DO IT
ETHICALLY AND MAYBE THAT
INCLUDES MAKING US LESS
SUSCEPTIBLE TO VIRUSES AS A
SPECIES.
HECK, IF BACTERIA ARE ALLOWED TO
DO IT AND EVERY OTHER SPECIES
USES EVERY TRICK IN THE BOOK TO
MAKE THEMSELVES SAFER, MAYBE WE
SHOULD.
>> WELL, YOU’VE DONE IT ONCE
AGAIN, WALTER, LEONARDO,
EINSTEIN, STEVE JOBS.
YOU’RE ALWAYS AHEAD OF THE CURVE
AND WRITING ABOUT INVENTIONS,
CREATIVITY, GENIUS, AND WE’RE SO
GRATEFUL.
THANK YOU FOR COMING TODAY.