>>> NOW TO THE LATEST IN THE SEX
TRAFFICKING INVESTIGATION INTO
REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN MATT
GAETZ.
TWO SOURCES BRIEFED ON THE
MATTER TELL THE NEW YORK TIMES
THAT THE FORMER FLORIDA OFFICIAL
WHOSE CASE ENTANGLED GAETZ HAS
BEEN COOPERATING WITH FEDERAL
OFFICIALS SINCE LAST YEAR,
QUOTING FROM THE TIMES, JOEL
GREENBERG, A ONE-TIME COUNTY TAX
COLLECTOR DISCLOSED TO
INVESTIGATORS THAT HE AND MR.
GAETZ HAD ENCOUNTERS WITH WOMEN
WHO WERE GIVEN CASH OR GIFTS IN
EXCHANGE FOR SEX.
THE PEOPLE SAID.
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS
INVESTIGATING THE INVOLVEMENT OF
THE MEN WITH MULTIPLE WOMEN WHO
WERE RECRUITED ONLINE FOR SEX
AND RECEIVED CASH PAYMENTS.
AND WHETHER THE MEN HAD SEX WITH
A 17-YEAR-OLD IN VIOLATION WITH
SEX TRAFFICKING STATUTES.
MR. GREENBERG, THE TIMES
CONTINUES, WHO IS SAID TO HAVE
MET THE WOMEN THROUGH WEBSITES
THAT CONNECT PEOPLE WHO GO ON
DATES IN EXCHANGE FOR GIFTS,
FINE DINING, TRAVEL AND
ALLOWANCES AND INTRODUCE THEM TO
MR. GAETZ COULD PROVIDE
INVESTIGATORS WITH FIRST-HAND
ACCOUNTS OF THEIR ACTIVITIES.
THE TIMES QUOTES THE TWO SOURCES
AS SAYING GREENBERG BEGAN
SPEAKING WITH INVESTIGATORS WITH
ONCE HE REALIZED THAT THE
GOVERNMENT HAD OVERWHELMING
EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM AND THAT
HIS ONLY PATH TO LENIENCY WAS IF
HE FLIPPED ON THE CONGRESSMAN.
GAETZ HAS DENIED EVER PAYING FOR
SEX AND A SPOKESMAN FOR THE
CONGRESSMAN SAYS THE STORY,
QUOTE, HAS NOW TURNED INTO A
GENERAL FISHING EXERCISE ABOUT
VACATIONS AND CONSENSUAL
RELATIONSHIPS WITH ADULTS.
NBC NEWS HAS NOT CONFIRMED THE
REPORTING FROM THE TIMES, BUT
LETS BRING IN "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" REPORTER WHO HAS BEEN ON
THIS STORY FROM THE BEGINNING.
MICHAEL SCHMIDT.
HES AN MSNBC NATIONAL SECURITY
ANALYST, ALSO WITH US, WHITE
HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR
POLITICO, AND CO-AUTHOR OF "THE
PLAY BOOK, EUGENE DANIELS.
HES ALSO AN MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR
AND HAS BEEN FOLLOWING A CERTAIN
ANGLE OF THIS STORY AS WELL.
MICHAEL SCHMIDT, ILL START WITH
YOU.
I THINK MY BIGGEST QUESTION
LOOKING AT THIS SORT OF FROM
20,000 FEET IS HOW CREDIBLE A
WITNESS, HOW CREDIBLE A FLIPPER,
IS JOEL GREENBERG GIVEN ALL THE
THINGS HE IS ACCUSED OF DOING,
IT ASSUMES HIS GET A LITTLE LESS
JAIL OR RATHER THAN GET OUT OF
JAIL FREE CARD IS TO FLIP ON
GAETZ, BUT HOW TRUSTWORTHY IS
HE?
>> SO ALL THOSE WHO FLIP IN A
FEDERAL INVESTIGATION HAVE SOME
SORT OF CREDIBILITY PROBLEMS.
AND THAT IS THE JOB OF THE
GOVERNMENT TO SORT OF
REHABILITATE THEM IN THE JURYS
EYES AND USE THEM AS A WITNESS
IN ANOTHER PROSECUTION.
GREENBERG HAS A PARTICULARLY
LARGE PROBLEM ON HIS
CREDIBILITY, EVEN COMPARED TO
OTHER COOPERATORS.
HES BEEN INDICTED WITH 32
DIFFERENT CHARGES.
ITS A RANGE OF CRIMINALITY.
LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS FROM
CORRUPTION TO STOCKING TO FRAUD,
TO SEX TRAFFICKING.
AND THERE IS ALSO A HISTORY THAT
HE HAS OF CONTINUING TO BREAK
THE LAW EVEN AFTER HE WAS
INDICTED.
HES BEEN CHARGED WITH TRYING TO
DEFRAUD THE SMALL BUSINESS
ADMINISTRATION FOR PANDEMIC
RELIEF MONEY EVEN AFTER HE WAS
FIRST CHARGED IN JUNE OF 2020.
SO, THERES A LOT OF WORK THERE
TO BE DONE IF THE GOVERNMENT
WANTS TO USE HIM.
AND GREENBERG HAS TO BE FULLY
FORTHCOMING AND TRUTHFUL WITH
INVESTIGATORS.
AND IF HE IS TO MAKE ANY SORT OF
MISTAKE IN THAT AREA, HE COULD
JEOPARDIZE ANY TYPE OF DEAL.
>> YEAH.
AND HES IN A LOT OF TROUBLE.
IT DOES MAKE YOU WONDER LIKE,
WHAT WAS MATT GAETZ DOING
HANGING OUT WITH SOMEONE LIKE
THAT RIGHT THERE AND THEN?
ITS A QUESTION OF CREDIBILITY
AND MAKING GOOD CHOICES.
YOU
EUGENE DANIELS, THE THING THAT
JOEL GREENBERG COULD PRODUCE FOR
INVESTIGATORS IS EVIDENCE, LIKE
CELL PHONE RECORDS, INFORMATION
THAT PROVED WHAT THEYRE
INVESTIGATING.
WHAT ANGLES ARE YOU LOOKING AT
IN TERMS OF ACTUAL RECORDS THAT
PERHAPS MATT GAETZ COULD BE
PINNED DOWN ON?
>> YEAH.
WHAT WERE REPORTING AT POLITICO
IS THAT IT BECAME VERY CLEAR
THAT HE WAS BECOMING A SUBJECT
OF A SERIOUS INVESTIGATION THAT
WAS RATCHETED UP BECAUSE THEY
SEIZED HIS iPHONE AFTER
EXECUTING A SEARCH WARRANT.
THIS HAPPENED LAST YEAR.
THEY ALSO TOOK HIS FORMER
GIRLFRIENDS PHONE.
GAETZ CHANGED HIS NUMBER IN
DECEMBER.
SO ALL OF THIS HAS BEEN MOVING
KIND OF RATHER RAPID PACE FROM
GREENBERG TO GAETZ.
AS YOU SAID, GAETZ HAS DENIED
PAYING FOR SEX.
HES ALSO DENIED EVER BEING WITH
SOMEONE WHO IS UNDERAGE.
BUT INVESTIGATORS ARE OBVIOUSLY
DOING A LOT OF THE WORK TO
FIGURE OUT WHATS GOING ON,
WHETHER ITS GAETZ OR GREENBERG.
AND.
>> YEAH.
>> I COVER POLITICS MOSTLY, SO
POLITICALLY RIGHT NOW HE SEEMS
PRETTY SAFE, WHICH IS
SURPRISING.
AND ITS IN THE POST-TRUMP ERA,
A SCANDAL IS NOT FOR YOUR
CONFERENCE SOMETIMES ISNT AS
BAD ESPECIALLY ON THE SIDE OF
REPUBLICANS.
THEY KIND OF ACKNOWLEDGE THAT
ITS ROUGH FOR HIM, BUT
McCARTHY, SCALISE AND LIZ CHENEY
HAVE BEEN MEASURED AND