>>> BREAKING NEWS TONIGHT. NEW CLUES ON A BIG STORY THAT’S
ALL ABOUT WHETHER THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO
INDICT JAMES COMEY’S FORMER TOP
DEPUTY AT THE FBI, THE MAN WHO
RAN THE RUSSIA PROBE AND TOOK
OVER FOR COMEY.
AND HERE’S WHAT’S NEW.
WE HIT ON THIS STORY EARLIER
THIS WEEK.
THIS WEEK. THE NEWS NOW ALL BASICALLY COMES
DOWN TO QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER
A GRAND JURY REJECTED AN EFFORT
BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO
INDICT THIS PERSON.
IF THAT HAPPENED, AND I’M GOING
TO EXPLAIN ALL OF THIS, BUT IF
THAT HAPPENED, THAT WOULD BE A
HUGE AND RARE THING.
HERE’S THE CONTEXT.
THIS IS ALL ABOUT ANDY McCABE.
HE WAS, OF COURSE, AS I
MENTIONED, COMEY’S DEPUTY.
HIS LEGAL TEAM HAS NOW GONE
PUBLIC WHICH ITSELF IS A BIG
DEAL.
DEAL. IN A LETTER, DARING HIS DOJ TO
FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED.
DID THEY ULTIMATELY DECIDE NOT
TO INDICT HIM IF THEY WERE
REQUESTED TO BY THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION OF THE THE
ADMINISTRATION.
ADMINISTRATION. THE DOJ HAD ALREADY TRIED TO GET
THE GRAND JURY TO INDICT ANDREW
McCABE.
McCABE. THIS IS BY STATEMENTS MADE TO
OTHER DOJ OFFICIALS AND THE
PRESS.
PRESS. TRUMP ITSELF HAS ALWAYS BEEN A
McCABE CRITIC AND ASKED FOR THIS
INDICTMENT.
INDICTMENT. I’M GOING TO READ FROM THIS
IMPORTANT NEW LETTER, BECAUSE
YOU HAVE McCABE FOLKS SAYING,
LOOK, WE HEARD RUMORS FROM
REPORTERS THIS MORNING THAT THE
GRAND JURY CONSIDERING CHARGES
AGAINST McCABE DECLINED TO VOTE
AN INDICTMENT.
AN INDICTMENT. THEN THEY SAY SOMETHING WE ARE
NOT CONFIRMING TONIGHT, BUT THIS
IS WHAT WE SAY.
QUOTE, IT’S CLEAR NO INDICTMENT
HAS BEEN RETURNED.
IT DOESN’T MEAN AN INDICTMENT
WASN’T RETURNED BECAUSE WE DON’T
KNOW WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE GRAND
JURIES.
JURIES. THEY’RE SECRET.
THEY’RE SECRET. THAT DOESN’T MEAN ONE WOULD
NEVER BE RETURNED.
McCABE’S LAWYERS ARE TAKING THE
EXTRAORDINARY STEP OF GOING
PUBLIC.
PUBLIC. THEY WANT THE DOJ TO EXPLAIN
WHAT THEY’RE UP TO.
QUOTE, WE STRONGLY URGE YOU TO
REQUEST THE GRAND JURY TO SUBMIT
A REPORT TO THE COURT.
WE BELIEVE IT SERVES THE
INTEREST OF TRANSPARENCY, AND
THEY SAY, LOOK, THERE’S NO
REASON NOT TO DO SO.
NOW, ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN.
THERE COULD BE A SEALED
INDICTMENT.
INDICTMENT. THERE COULD BE A LATER
INDICTMENT.
INDICTMENT. BUT THE REPORTING HAS ACTUALLY
BEEN GOING THE OTHER WAY.
THE "WASHINGTON POST’S" NEW
ARTICLE BASICALLY SAYING THE
GRAND JURY INVESTIGATING McCABE
WAS RECALLED THIS WEEK, THEY
WERE GONE FOR MONTHS, AND THEY
WERE RELEASED YESTERDAY.
AND TONIGHT, AND IT IS THE END
OF THE WORK WEEK AS OF 6:26 P.M.
ON THE EAST COAST.
THERE IS NO PUBLIC INDICTMENT,
THAT’S FOR SURE.
I WANT TO BREAK ALL OF THIS DOWN
BECAUSE IT’S SUCH AN IMPORTANT
STORY, AND WE ARE THRILLED TO BE
JOINED BY A LONG-TIME DOJ
VETERAN, A FORMER FEDERAL
PROSECUTOR, DEAN ROSSI.
GOOD EVENING TO YOU.
>> GOOD EVENING, ARI.
>> LET’S START WITH WHY THIS IS
SUCH A BIG DEAL.
IF ANYONE IS GOING, ARI IS A
LAWYER, HE BROUGHT IN ANOTHER
LAWYER.
LAWYER. IT’S A LOT OF LAW.
AT A BASIC HEADLINE LEVEL, WHAT
SEEMED SO IMPORTANT TO ME IS
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING
THAT HASN’T HAPPENED IN THE
MODERN ERA, THAT ONE EXPERT PUT
IT THIS WEEK THAT RICHARD NIXON
NEVER EVEN TRIED.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AN EFFORT,
ACCORDING TO THE "WASHINGTON
POST," TO GET THE PERSON WHO WAS
RUNNING THE RUSSIAN PROBE
INDICTED.
INDICTED. DOES THAT ALONE APPEAR ON THE
LEVEL TO YOU?
>> NO, IT DOESN’T, AND HERE’S
WHAT TROUBLES ME THE MOST, ARI,
IS I WORKED THERE FOR 30 YEARS,
DOJ, AND YOU GET THE STRONG
FEELING THAT THERE IS POLITICAL
PRESSURE BEING IMPOSED ON THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL, THE U.S.
ATTORNEY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TO
GO AFTER ANDREW McCABE BECAUSE
HE HAD THE AUDACITY TO BE A CNN
ANALYST AND MAKE DEROGATORY
COMMENTS ABOUT THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES.
AND THE THING THAT REALLY
BOTHERS ME EVEN MORE IS THAT
AFTER HIS STELLAR CAREER, WITHIN
48 HOURS OF HIS RETIREMENT, THEY
FIRED HIM.
FIRED HIM. I’M NOT BEING FACETIOUS, BUT THE
ACTIONS THEY TOOK AGAINST ANDREW
McCABE IS LIKE KILLING A
MOSQUITO WITH AN AR-15.
THEY WON’T LET IT GO.
AND HERE’S THE THING YOU HAVE TO
CONSIDER AS A PROSECUTOR.
DO YOU HAVE THE ELEMENTS OF THE
CRIME, WHICH IS DEBATABLE?
IS THERE A FEDERAL INTEREST IN
INDICTING ANDREW McCABE?
AND THE THIRD IS, IS THERE A
REMEDY BESIDES CHARGING HIM?
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> AND THE REMEDY HERE IS HE WAS
FIRED.
FIRED. >> HE WAS FIRED, HE WAS A
LONG-TIME LAW ENFORCEMENT
VETERAN WHO DEALT WITH TERROR
AND ALL THESE OTHER BIG CASES,
ROSE TO BE ACTING OUT OF THE
FBI.
FBI. HE DIDN’T EVEN GET HIS
GOVERNMENT PENSION.
GOVERNMENT PENSION. SO IF YOU SAY THERE WAS SOME
SCREW-UPS AT WORK, WAS HE
SANCTIONED AT WORK, AS YOU SAY,
THE ANSWER WAS YES, AND NOW
WE’RE INTO THIS OTHER TERRITORY
WHICH HIS LAWYERS HAVE BEEN
SAYING IS PUBLIC TERRITORY.
NOW I WANT TO GET INTO WHY THIS
IS SO HARD TO COVER.
VIEWERS WILL REMEMBER OUR
COLLEAGUES AND EXPERTS AND
RACHEL, THEY WERE SAYING, LOOK,
THE GRAND JURY IS SECRET.
THERE’S A REASON WE DON’T KNOW
WHAT THIS GRAND JURY IS UP TO.
BUT BASED ON THE POST REPORTING
THAT WE’VE BEEN RELYING ON THAT
THE GRAND JURY WAS RECALLED AND
THEN LET GO, DO YOU HAVE ANY
VIEW OF WHAT THIS MIGHT MEAN?
BIG PICTURE FOR THE CASE.
>> BIG PICTURE IS THIS.
A GRAND JURY IS 23 PEOPLE.
YOU NEED 12 VOTES TO RETURN A
TRUE BILL, THE CHARGING
DOCUMENT.
DOCUMENT. WHAT THIS MEANS IS ONE OF TWO
THINGS.
THINGS. ONE, THEY COULDN’T GET 12 VOTES
TO RETURN AN INDICTMENT.
IF THAT’S THE CASE, AND THAT
COULD BE VERY RARE, THEN THEY
HAVE A DUTY TO INFORM McCABE
THAT HE’S NOT GOING TO BE
CHARGED.
CHARGED. IF THEY ARE STILL GATHERING
EVIDENCE, WHICH IS A
POSSIBILITY, THEN THEY WILL USE
THAT GRAND JURY OR GET A NEW ONE
AND CONTINUE THE INVESTIGATION.
THOSE ARE THE TWO POSSIBILITIES.
BUT IF THEY REJECTED THE
INDICTMENT, THEY SHOULD TELL
ANDREW McCABE STRAIGHT UP,
YOU’RE OFF THE HOOK.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. JUST TO BE CLEAR, IF THOSE
CITIZENS OVERRULED WHAT THE DOJ
UNDER BARR WAS TRYING TO DO, AS
YOU KNOW AND AS EVERY HAM
SANDWICH ACROSS THE COUNTRY
KNOWS, WE JUST HAD THE GRABBING
UP, THAT WOULD BE 99.99% RARE.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT LITERALLY
ALMOST NEVER OCCURS AND WOULD
SUGGEST THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO
PUSH THE CASE WHICH, IN THAT
INSTANCE, THE JURORS FOUND TO BE
TOO WEAK TO MOVE FORWARD ON.
AGAIN, I WANT TO BE CLEAR AT THE
RISK OF REPEATING MYSELF, WE’RE
NOT REPORTING THAT’S HAPPENED
YET, WE’RE REPORTING THAT ANDREW
McCABE IS CALLING ON THAT TO BE
CLARIFIED AND YOU SEEM TO AGREE