>>> I WANT TO DIG A LITTLE
FURTHER INTO THE CONVERSATION WE
WERE HAVING JUST A FEW MOMENTS
AGO ON QUALIFIED IMMUNITY AND
WHETHER ITS GOING TO BE
INCLUDED IN THE POLICE REFORM
BILL THATS BEING DEBATED RIGHT
NOW ON CAPITOL HILL.
JOINING ME SOMEONE WHO HAS
REALLY MADE IT HIS MISSION TO
END QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.
HES BEN COHEN, THE CO-CHAIR OF
THE CAMPAIGN TO END QUALIFIED
IMMUNITY.
HES ALSO THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOK
"ABOVE THE LAW, HOW QUALIFIED
IMMUNITY PROTECTS VIOLENT
POLICE."
OH, BY THE WAY, HE IS THE BEN IN
BEN & JERRYS ICE CREAM.
I KNOW YOU AND JERRY GREENFIELD
HAVE BEEN VOCAL SOCIAL ACTIVISTS
FOR DECADES NOW, BUT WHAT MADE
YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS
SPECIFIC FIGHT?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK JERRY
AND MYSELF, LIKE SO MANY
MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, HAVE BEEN
OUTRAGED AT ALL THE VIDEOS WEVE
BEEN SEEING OF POLICE KILLING,
MURDERING UNARMED BLACK PEOPLE.
YOU KNOW, IT CAME TO A HEAD WITH
THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD, AND
WE JUST COULDNT STAND IDLY BY.
WE WANTED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT
IT.
WE STARTED RESEARCHING WHY IS IT
THAT THESE COPS, YOU KNOW, THE
RELATIVELY FEW BAD COPS THAT ARE
DOING THIS STUFF, SEEM TO BE
GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER.
IN MOST CASES THEYRE NOT
PROSECUTED AND IF THEY ARE, YOU
KNOW, LIKE TWO YEARS LATER, YOU
HEAR THEY GOT AWAY WITH A SLAP
ON THE WRIST.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE RECEIVEDSEARCHE
AND FOUND ITS THIS ISSUE OF
QUALIFIED IMMUNITY THAT KEEPS
COPS FROM BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE
AND WE DECIDED TO TAKE CARE OF
IT, TO TRY TO DO OUR BEST TO
CHANGE IT, TO END THIS REALLY
ABSURD LEGAL DOCTRINE.
>> I MEAN, YOUR BOOK TELLS THE
STORY OF 12 PEOPLE AFFECTED BY
POLICE BRUTALITY AND HOW YOU SAY
QUALIFIED IMMUNITY PREVENTED
THEM FROM SEEKING JUSTICE.
WE HEARD THE ISSUE MAYBE LEFT
OUT OF THE BILL NOW.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO DEMOCRATS
WHO ARE WILLING TO COMPROMISE ON
THAT PART OF IT JUST TO GET
SOMETHING PASSED?
>> I THINK WHAT WEVE LEARNED AS
BUSINESS PEOPLE IS THAT
ACCOUNTABILITY IS EVERYTHING.
IF YOU DONT HOLD YOUR EMPLOYEES
ACCOUNTABLE, YOURE ESSENTIALLY
TELLING THEM WHATEVER YOURE
TELLING THEM DOESNT REALLY
MATTER, AND THATS THE SAME WITH
THE POLICE.
I MEAN, YOU CAN DO ANY KIND OF
TRAINING YOU WANT, REQUIRE BODY
CAMERAS, WHATEVER, BUT IF YOU
DONT HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE WHEN
THEY BREAK THE LAW, ITS LIKE
SAYING, WELL, YOU KNOW, WERE
SAYING THIS STUFF, BUT WE DONT
REALLY MEAN IT.
SO, YEAH, WE THINK THAT THIS IS
THE MOST CRITICAL AND IMPORTANT
PART OF REFORMING POLICING, IS
TO HOLD COPS ACCOUNTABLE, JUST
LIKE AN INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN IS
HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
I MEAN, THE REALITY IS, IS THAT
IF I HAUL OFF AND PUNCH YOU IN
THE FACE, YOU CAN SUE ME.
IF A COP DOES THE SAME THING TO
YOU, THE CASE WILL GET THROWN
OUT OF COURT.
>> BEN, I KNOW ONE OF THE GOALS
OF YOUR CAMPAIGN TO END
QUALIFIED IMMUNITY WAS TO GET IT
DONE IN THE FIRST 100 DAYS OF
THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.
WEVE OBVIOUSLY PASSED THAT
MARK.
DO YOU HAVE A NEW GOAL IN MIND?
IS THERE A NEW TIMETABLE?
>> WELL, THE EFFORT IS TO TRY TO
GET THIS BILL PASSED BY MAY
25th, THE ANNIVERSARY OF GEORGE
FLOYDS DEATH, AND SO WERE
SHOOTING FOR THAT.
>> OKAY.
BEN COHEN, AGAIN, OF OBVIOUSLY
ICE CREAM FAME, ALSO HAS BECOME
QUITE THE SOCIAL ACTIVIST FOR
YEARS NOW ON TALKING ABOUT HIS