BIG NOW WE LOOK AT SOMETHING
THAT FEELS A LOT MORE A VERY
REAL SECOND COLD WAR.
CHRIS MURPHY OF CONNECTICUT
JOINS ME NOW.
SENATOR, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU
HERE.
HOW DO YOU SEE THE DEVELOPMENTS
TODAY, JAKE SULLIVAN,
SEVEN-HOUR MEETING, THE U.S.
BEING QUITE VOCAL ABOUT HIS
CONCERNS ABOUT CHINA, AND CHINA
ALIGNING WITH RUSSIA.
HOW DO YOU ASSESS THIS?
>> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
SCRATCH THEIR HEADS A BIT IN
THE EARLY DAYS OF THIS CONFLICT,
IN THE WEEKS LEADING UP TO IT,
ASKING WHY PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS
NOT ACTING UNILATERALLY WITHOUT
EUROPE.
THE REASON FOR THAT IS FIRST HE
JUST BELIEVE THAT IT WOULD BE
THE STRONGEST RESPONSE TO
RUSSIA THESE ECONOMIC SANCTIONS
--
PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN AROUND
LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THE
CHINESE LAW DIDN'T LISTEN TO
YOU, BUT THEY LISTENED TO IS
MULTI LATERAL CONSEQUENCES.
SO WE CAN TAKE A STRONG
POSITION WITH CHINA RIGHT NOW,
BECAUSE IF THEY DO DECIDE TO
GET SOME MILITARY DEAL WITH THE
RUSSIANS TO RESUPPLY WHAT THEY
HAVE LOST ON THE BATTLEFIELD,
IT IS NOT THE UNITED STATES
THAT'S GONNA HAVE CONSEQUENCES
TO CHINA, THE UNITED STATES IN
AN UNPRECEDENTED ARRAY OF
ALLIES, THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN
PLACE BY THE PRESIDENT, SO YOU
ARE RIGHT, THESE ARE TOUGH
WORDS TO CHINA, BUT THIS
PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT BIDEN IS
PLAYING A PRETTY STRONG HAND
RIGHT NOW.
I THINK THAT THAT IS CAUSE OF
THE CHINESE TO STEP BACK AND DO
AN ASSESSMENT OF WHETHER THIS
IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST TO
STAY ALIVE WITH RUSSIA ON THIS
INCREASINGLY DISASTROUS
INVASION.
>> YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, THE
PRIMARY THING THAT WE ARE
WATCHING IS THIS BRUTAL HUMAN
SUFFERING, RIGHT?
THE DESTRUCTION OF CITIES, THE
DESTRUCTION OF PEOPLES LIVES.
DEATH.
THE INJURY HAD A MASSIVE SCALE.
ALL COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE.
ALL COMPLETELY UNJUSTIFIABLE,
INDEFENSIBLE.
THIS DID NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN,
RIGHT?
WE TAKE A STEP BACK AND LOOK AT
WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.
WE BUILT UP A SYSTEM WHAT WE
CALL GLOBALIZATION, POST 1991,
WHERE THE COLD WAR WAS GONE AND
WE HAD ALL KINDS OF
INTERACTIONS HAPPENING ACROSS
ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT
POPULISTS IS.
THERE IS INSTAGRAM IN RUSSIA.
THEY'RE KEEPING U.S. FOREIGN
CURRENCY RESERVES.
THAT'S BEEN ESSENTIALLY ALL
YANKED OUT.
IN THE SPAN OF TWO WEEKS, AS A
MEANS OF RESPONDING TO THIS
PROVOCATION.
BUT IF YOU ARE CHINA AND
LOOKING AT THAT, THAT HAS TO
SIGNIFY SOMETHING PROFOUND TO
THEM ABOUT WITH THE ACTUAL
NATURE OF THE GLOBAL ORDER IS
GOING FORWARD.
>> YEAH, AND LISTEN, RUSSIA HAD
POSITIONED ITSELF IN A WAY THAT
IT HOVER TOWARD MAKING IT
IMMUNE TO THE KIND OF SANCTION
THAT IT'S FIXED.
IT THOUGHT THAT THE OLIGARCHS
MONEY IN LONDON, ALL OF THE
ENERGY DEPENDENCE IN EUROPE AND
THE UNITED STATES WOULD MAKE IT
IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE WEST TO
STRIKE IN THE WAY THAT IT HAS.
BUT WITH THE WEST HAS SHOWN IS
THAT WHEN A DEMOCRACY IS UNDER
THREAT LIKE THIS IN AN
UNPRECEDENTED WAY, WHEN
CIVILIANS ARE BEING MURDERED BY
THE HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS, WE
HAVE THE ABILITY TO COME
TOGETHER AND EVEN FOR A COUNTRY
LIKE RUSSIA, WHICH HAD
INTEGRATED ITSELF FAIRLY WELL
WITH EUROPE AND THE UNITED
STATES, BREAK THAT DEPENDENCY.
THAT IS CLEARLY A MESSAGE TO
CHINA.
THAT IS A MESSAGE THAT THEY ARE
LISTENING TO RIGHT NOW.
BECAUSE AS WE KNOW THERE ARE
CONTEMPLATING SIMILAR OFFENSIVE
ACTION IN TAIWAN, AND NOW THAT
THEY KNOW THE WEST IS CAPABLE
OF CUTTING RUSSIA OFF, YES,
IT'S MORE DIFFICULT TO CUT
CHINA OFF, BUT IT'S EVEN MORE
CONSEQUENTIAL TO CHINESE
ECONOMY THEY GET CUT OFF THEN
IT IS RIGHT NOW TO RUSSIA
MARIE.
>> AND THERE IS --
I THINK THERE'S A SENSE THAT A
LOT OF YOU WATCHING THIS UNFOLD,
WE ARE WATCHING THIS ALMOST IN
AN UNPRECEDENTED FASHION IN
REALTIME.
IS THIS TRUE OF SYRIA A LITTLE
BIT?
OF OTHER CONFLICTS, BUT REALLY,
MORE THAN ANYTHING WE'VE EVER
SEEN, RIGHT?
THE INTERNET IS STILL UP AND
RUNNING IN SOME PLACES THAT
HAVE BEEN BRUTALIZED.
WE SEE THESE IMAGES.
THERE'S A SENSE THAT PEOPLE
WANT TO DO MORE.
THERE'S ALSO OF COURSE, AS I
SAID, THE GRIM LOGIC --
SURE DESTRUCTION, WHICH IS A --
HOW DO YOU ASSESS, WHAT IS IN
THE ARSENAL, OR WHICH IS ON THE
LIST OF WHAT CAN BE DONE NOW BY
THE U.S. AND ITS ALLIES?
>> SO THERE'S SHORT TERM STEPS
AND LONG TERM STEPS.
THERE IS CERTAINLY STILL AN
ABILITY TO GET DEFENSIVE
SUPPLIES AND OFFENSIVE SUPPLIES
IN TO THE UKRAINIANS.
WE DRAW THE LINE HERE, WHICH IT
IS A SMART WAY, THAT WE ARE NOT
GOING TO GET INTO A DIRECT
CONFLICT WITH RUSSIA, BUT
THERE'S STILL PLENTY THAT WE
CAN DO FOR THEM.
THERE IS ALSO THE EFFORT, AS
YOU MENTIONED, TO CUT OFF
RUSSIA'S ESCAPE ROUTES.
OUR PRIMARY ESCAPE ROUTES TO
CHINA.
THEY'RE ALSO LOOKING AT THE
INDIAN GOVERNMENT, AND THEY ARE
LOOKING TO AFRICA TO FIND OTHER
PLACES TO PUT THEIR OIL.
WE COULD CUT OFF THE ESCAPE
ROUTES FOR THAT MOMENT OF
DECISION FOR PUTIN WHERE HE IS
NOWHERE ELSE TO GO BUT TO
WITHDRAW HIS TROOPS.
THAT THEN IN THE LONG RUN, WHY
NOT LEARN A LESSON HERE AND
ALLOW RUSSIAN TO BECOME SO
POWERFUL BASED UPON ONE
PRINCIPAL SOURCE OF REVENUE,
AND THAT IS THEIR OIL AND GAS.
RUSSIA BUILT UP THIS ARMY
THROUGH ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE
SALE OF THIS FUEL TO THE REST
OF THE WORLD.
SO THIS IS A MOMENT FOR US
WHERE WE LEARN OUR LESSON AND
BREAK FREE OF ALREADY PENINSULA
ON FOREIGN OIL, BECAUSE IT'S
NOT JUST THE RUSSIANS WHO
ACQUIRE POWER THROUGH OIL, IT'S
A WHOLE SORT OF ANOTHER SET OF