QUICKBOOKS. BACKING YOU.
>>> AFTER WEEKS OF OUTRAGE, THERE IS A REPORT THE FBI IS NOW
LOOKING INTO CONTROVERSIAL
PARDONS ISSUED BY KENTUCKY’S NOW
FORMER REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR MATT
BEVIN.
BEVIN. JUST BEFORE LEAVING OFFICE ON
DECEMBER 10th, BEVIN HANDED OUT
MORE THAN 600 PARDONS AND
SENTENCE REDUCTIONS.
SENTENCE REDUCTIONS. THOSE INCLUDED PARDONS OF MEN
CONVICTED OF CHILD RAPE AND
MURDER, WHOSE FAMILIES HAD
SUPPORTED BEVIN’S CAMPAIGN.
THE KENTUCKY LEGISLATURE CALLED
FOR A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR TO LOOK
INTO THE PARDONS.
ONE OF THOSE DEMOCRATS, KENTUCKY
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS
HARRIS, TOLD THE LOUISVILLE
COURIER JOURNAL HE HAS SINCE
HEARD FROM A CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATOR, ASKING WHAT HARRIS
KNEW ABOUT BEVIN’S LAST-MINUTE
PARDONS.
PARDONS. TWO SOURCES WITH KNOWLEDGE OF
THE INQUIRY TOLD THE COURIER
JOURNAL IT WAS AN FBI AGENT WHO
SPOKE WITH HARRIS.
NBC NEWS HAS REACHED OUT TO
BEVIN.
BEVIN. HE HAS NOT RESPONDED AND THE FBI
IS NOT COMMENTING.
IN A STATEMENT TO NBC NEWS,
HARRIS SAID, QUOTE, I’M HAPPY TO
CONFIRM THAT I WAS CONTACTED BY
A PERSON IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT
COMMUNITY.
COMMUNITY. DURING THE CALL THE INVESTIGATOR
ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
PARDONS AND IT WAS MY CLEAR
IMPRESSION THAT AN INVESTIGATION
WAS RAMPING UP.
CHUCK ROSENBERG, FORMER U.S.
ATTORNEY AND FORMER SENIOR FBI
OFFICIAL.
OFFICIAL. CHUCK, THANKS FOR JOINING US.
LET ME START.
IT DOES SEEM -- THE PARTICULARS
HERE ARE NEW, BUT THE IDEA OF A
CONTROVERSY OVER A LAST-MINUTE
PARDON BY A GOVERNOR OR, FOR
THAT MATTER, A U.S. PRESIDENT
NOT NEW.
NOT NEW. WHERE THESE THINGS USUALLY SEEM
TO LAND, IN MY EXPERIENCE, IS
THE POLITICIAN WHO IS LEAVING
OFFICE DOES SOMETHING THAT’S
CONSIDERED EXTREMELY DISTASTEFUL
WITH A PARDON, AND THERE’S A
FRENZY TO FIND OUT, IS THERE
ANYTHING THE PUBLIC CAN DO ABOUT
THIS?
THIS? AND THE ANSWER USUALLY SEEMS TO
COME BACK NO BECAUSE THE PARDON
POWER IS VERY BROAD AND VERY
CLEAR.
CLEAR. IS THAT LIKELY TO BE THE CASE
HERE, OR COULD THIS BE
DIFFERENT?
DIFFERENT? >> THE PARDON POWER IS VERY
BROAD AND VERY CLEAR.
YOU’RE RIGHT, STEVE, UNDER
ARTICLE II OF THE U.S.
CONSTITUTION FOR THE PRESIDENT
AND BY THE WAY UNDER SECTION 77
OF THE KENTUCKY STATE
CONSTITUTION FOR THE GOVERNOR OF
KENTUCKY.
KENTUCKY. AND SO THE THING WE LOOK FOR IS
NOT WHETHER SOMEBODY ACTED, YOU
KNOW, RASHLY OR RECKLESSLY OR
FOOLISHLY OR PRUDENTLY BUT
WHETHER THEY ACTED CORRUPTLY.
IF THE PARDON WAS CORRUPT, THE
PARDON STILL STANDS BUT THERE
COULD BE REPERCUSSIONS FOR THE
GOVERNOR.
GOVERNOR. >> HOW IS SOMETHING LIKE THAT
PROVEN, AGAIN, GIVEN HOW BROAD
AND CLEAR THIS POWER IS.
HOW WOULD CORRUPT INTENT BE
PROVABLE FROM A CRIMINAL
STANDPOINT?
STANDPOINT? >> SURE.
>> SURE. INTENT IS ALWAYS THE HARDEST
THING TO PROVE.
YOU HAVE TO GET INTO SOMEONE’S
BRAIN TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT WAS
THEY WERE PLANNING TO DO OR
INTENDING TO DO, TRYING TO DO.
BUT INVESTIGATORS DO THIS ALL
THE TIME.
THE TIME. I MEAN, THE FBI IS VERY, VERY
GOOD AT PUBLIC CORRUPTION CASES.
AND THEY BUILT IT THROUGH
DOCUMENTS AND THROUGH
COOPERATING WITNESSES AND
CIRCUMSTANCES.
CIRCUMSTANCES. AND SO IF THERE IS AN
INVESTIGATION, I CAN ASSURE YOU
THAT INVESTIGATORS ARE LOOKING
AT THE RECORDS OF THE PEOPLE WHO
WERE PARDONED AND WHETHER THEY
OR THEIR FAMILIES HAVE ANY
FINANCIAL CONNECTIONS TO THE
GOVERNOR, WHETHER MONEY WAS
RAISED BY THESE FAMILIES IN
ORDER TO TRY TO BUY A PARDON.
IF THEY TURN UP EVIDENCE OF
THAT, STEVE, IT COULD BE A
PROBLEM FOR THE GOVERNOR.
>> I MEAN, DOES THAT -- THE KIND
OF EVIDENCE YOU’RE TALKING
ABOUT, DOES IT HAVE TO END UP
BEING ALMOST -- THE TERM SMOKING
GUN, SOMEBODY SAYING I’VE GOT
THE MONEY.
THE MONEY. NOW I’M GOING TO GIVE THE
PARDON?
PARDON? THAT SORT OF THING.
MY MIND GOES BACK TO BILL
CLINTON WITH MARK RICH, THE
FINAL DAYS OF BILL CLINTON’S
PRESIDENCY, INTERNATIONAL
PRESIDENCY, INTERNATIONAL FUGITIVE WHOSE EX-WIFE HE WAS
VERY CLOSE TO, HAD GIVEN A TON
OF MONEY TO THE CLINTON LIBRARY,
HILLARY CLINTON’S SENATE
CAMPAIGN, AND THE FBI SAID YOU
CAN’T PROVE ANYTHING HERE.
>> SMOKING GUNS ARE FEW AND FAR
BETWEEN IN REAL LIFE.
WE TALK ABOUT IT A LOT.
YOU OCCASIONALLY SEE IT IN THE
MOVIES BUT IN REAL LIFE YOU
PROVE CASES THROUGH PRIMARILY
CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.
CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. IN OTHER WORDS, WE INFER THINGS
FROM CIRCUMSTANCES.
FROM CIRCUMSTANCES. THE LAW IS VERY CLEAR,
CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS EVERY
BIT AS COMPELLING, EVERY BIT AS