- Hello, Hannah here
just to tell you that the clips you're about to watch
are from my podcast "Doing It".
We've just launched season five.
If you didn't know,
I have a podcast where I interview lots of different people
about sex and relationships.
This is the first episode of season five
with the amazing Emily Nagoski
and one of the cool things that we've started doing
is video.
So you may see some video clips from the podcast
appearing on my YouTube channel going forwards.
You can listen to the full episode
wherever you get your podcasts
and also the full video episode
if that's how you would like to consume your podcast
is available on my Patreon
which is patreon.com/hannahwitton.
I hope you enjoy these clips.
I hope you enjoy the podcast.
Thank you for watching.
Please subscribe to "Doing It"
wherever you get your podcasts,
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I don't know other names of places, but yes, go listen.
Enjoy.
- One of the things that happened in the science after 2014
was it became really unambiguous
that the people who have a mismatch
between how much their genitals are experiencing blood flow
and how turned on they feel is straight women.
- Oh, interesting.
- Which we still don't know why.
- Huh.
Okay yeah 'cause I read the first edition
and it was more like this happens in cis women,
but it's like even more specific than that,
it's straight cis women. - It's straight cis women
and let me say that we just don't have the research
on trans women or non-binary people.
Her struggle was like how do you start having sex
before you want it?
And I was like responsive desire, like you only,
it will emerge in response to arousal.
And it was only a couple of days later
that I remembered some Victorian porn that I was exposed to
as part of my sexual attitude reassessment training
where over and over the story is
that he starts sexually touching a woman
and she resists and says no and tries to get away
but eventually her lubricious temperament
will not allow her to resist anymore.
So if you just like grab a woman
and start doing things to her,
eventually she will not be able to help liking it.
And I realised that people were reading arousal first,
then desire as like just do stuff
and eventually the person won't be able to help it
and I was like, oh no, no.
- So how does it actually work then, responsive desire?
- The thing is technically that is how it works
which is why was like what do I do?
And all I had to do
was recognise that when I said arousal,
people were hearing genital response and I was like,
no, okay, so what's a word I can use
that means the thing I intend it to mean?
And the word I can use is pleasure, it's pleasure
'cause it's only arousal that happens in a context
where a person's brain is willing to interpret a sensation
as pleasurable because we know from arousal non-concordance
and we know from the context sensitivity of pleasure
that just because your body is responding
doesn't mean you want or like what is happening.
In the same way that the pandemic
interfered with our natural ability
to get our needs for connection met,
the modern world interferes with our ability
to get our basic stress response needs met.
So what completes the stress response cycle
doesn't match what deals with the thing
that caused the stress in the first place.
So like traffic or even relationship conflict
'cause if you're stuck in traffic,
you're like sitting on the train
and like your body
is having the same physiological response
as if you're being chased by a lion,
which is sort of the evolutionary origin of it,
like you got this adrenaline response
so that you can beat the crap out of somebody or run away
and like that's not gonna help you.
It's not gonna make the train move any faster.
It's not gonna make people smell any better.
It's not gonna get them
to like get off the train any faster
like you're just sitting there stewing in this stress juice
and then you get off the train and you get home
and do you feel better now?
Do you feel like, oh, the sun shines brighter
and I love my friends-
- I guess it depends on what welcomes you when you get home.
- Well also how do you welcome them
when you walk in the door
'cause you're like argh
and people receive that energy when you get home.
So even though you've dealt with the stressor
by actually making it out of the traffic
you have to do something
that deals with the stress itself which-
- That is stored in the body.
- Yeah, it's like your body wants
to purge all this chemistry.
And there are seven evidence-based strategies for doing this
just in chapter one.
The most efficient is-
- Is screaming one of them?
- Oh screaming is one of them, yes.
Screaming and laughing and crying are all absolutely,
jumping up and down and shaking,
any form of physical movement,
hugging until relaxed is one
and connection of many different kinds
where you're just like engaging in behaviours
that help your body to shift out of the stress response
and into the relaxation response.
These are the behaviours that tell your body
your body is now a safe place for you to be.
- And then I guess also just like the general stress
like especially if you're somebody
with a marginalised identity
and just like living in a world
that is sexist, transphobic, homophobic, racist,
like ablest all these things,
that is just like a constant stress on your life.
And it's like, well, like that stressor
unfortunately isn't going away anytime soon,
like we can do stuff to help,
but like we can't just like snap our fingers and it's gone.
So I guess you do have to find ways
just to like on a daily, weekly basis
to move through the cycle
so that that stressor isn't yeah.
- In fact, when it comes to identity stress,
when just going out into the world is a stressor,
it is an act of revolution,
it is an act of rebellion
to engage in completing the stress response cycle.
In a world that doesn't really care whether you live or die,
for you to care that your body stays healthy and well
and to dedicate time and attention,
as Audrey Lorde said,
"Caring for myself is an act of rebellion",
I should look up at the actual quote is,
"Caring for myself is not self-indulgence,
it is self-preservation and that is a revolution."
It's important for people because people lack education,
like just like basic vocabulary
like the difference
between pleasure, desire, arousal and consent,
people have script in their head
of how sex is supposed to be
that is so dominant that they can't even recognise the ways
what a great sex life for them looks like
in the absence of somebody else's standard.
So a really helpful exercise
for anybody in a situation like this,
whether the higher desire partner
or the lower desire partner
is to answer a series of questions.
One of them is what is it that I want when I want sex?
It's not orgasm, you can do that by yourself.
What is it though that I want?
What in particular is it
about having sex with this person that I want?
And what is it that I like when I like sex?
Recognising that desire and pleasure are not the same thing.
Desire is what is the place I want to go,
what is the state I want to achieve,
what is the outcome I'm looking for when I want sex?
What is it that I want?
What is it that I like is what do I enjoy in the moment
as our bodies or our voices or our texts
are there in the moment, like what am I liking?
What does that pleasure feel like?
And then there's also the questions
what is it that I don't want when I don't want sex?
(upbeat music)