"THE WASHINGTON POST"TIBBETS. >>> JOINING US NOW INVESTIGATIVE
REPORTER FOR "THE WASHINGTON
POST" AND MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR
DAVID FARENHOLD AND ALSO JOINING
US
US US, THERE HE IS RIGHT THERE.
>> I DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH TIME HE
SPENDS IN A NIGHTCLUB BUT WE’RE
CALLING HIM BILL KRISTOL.
>> GENIUS.
>> GENIUS. >> BAD MEANING BAD MEANING GOOD.
THRILLED TO CELEBRATE ONE YEAR
ANNIVERSARY OF THE BEAT.
I’VE WATCHED THEM TOGETHER OFF
SET NOW.
SET NOW. >> IT’S REAL.
NOT LIKE A TV FRIENDSHIP.
>> REAL FRIENDSHIP.
I MEAN OFFSET, I MEAN OFF THE
SET.
SET. >> KEY RUN ALL DAY.
WE’LL DO IT OFF THE SET.
>> THEY WERE IN A CLUB OFF THE
SET.
SET. >> AT 2:00 IN THE MORNING, 1
OAK, BOTTLE SERVICE.
BILL KRISTOL DON’T SELL THE GUY
SHORT.
SHORT. YOU WANT TO BE OUT WITH HIM AT
2:00 IN THE MORNING WITH FAT JOE
AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
>> I LOVE BILL KRISTOL BUT NO.
>> DON’T SELL HIM SHORT.
>> I’LL SAY THIS IN ALL
SERIOUSNESS A LOT OF PEOPLE
DON’T KNOW WHEN FAT JOE SAID
IT’S ABOUT US, IT’S ABOUT TRUST,
HE TALKING ABOUT "THE WEEKLY
STANDARD".
STANDARD". >> WOW.
>> WOW. >> AMAZING THING.
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE ONE YEAR
ANNIVERSARY.
ANNIVERSARY. >> THANK YOU.
NO ONE KNOWS WHERE TO GO FROM
HERE.
HERE. >> WE’RE DOING FAT JOE LYRICS.
DAVID FARENHOLD LET ME GET YOU
AND YOUR REPORTING ON TRUMP.
THE CLAUSE HAS BEEN THROWN
ABOUT.
ABOUT. PEOPLE LOOKING FOR WAYS
PRESIDENT MAY HAVE VIOLATED
THAT.
THAT. WHAT YOUR FINDING.
>> HERE’S WHAT CHANGED.
THERE’S THIS CLAUSE IN THE
CONSTITUTION YOU MENTIONED.
IT SAYS PRESIDENTS CAN’T TAKE
QUOTE-UNQUOTE EMOLLIMENTS FROM
FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS.
FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS. WE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT IT MEANT.
NOW WE HAVE AN ANSWER FROM A
FEDERAL JUDGE IN MARYLAND.
THE ANSWER IS, IT MEANS ALMOST
ANY BUSINESS TRANSACTION THAT
TRUMP DOES WITH A FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT NOT BRIBES BUT
FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS PAYING HIS
BUSINESS TO RENTS A BALLROOM OR
HOTEL ROOM.
HOTEL ROOM. NOW THERE’S A HUGE, SIZABLE
UNIVERSE OF TRANSACTIONS THAT
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION HAS DONE.
>> WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND?
YOU HAD YOUR LEGAL PAD OUT FOR
THREE YEARS KEEPING TRACK OF ALL
THAT?
THAT? .
. WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND?
>> THERE’S NO SORT OF OFFICIAL
LIST FROM THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION.
ORGANIZATION. THEY’VE GIVEN US NOTHING.
SO WHAT WE’VE DONE IS PIECE
TOGETHER THINGS FROM MEDIA
REPORTS.
REPORTS. A NEW INSTANCE WHEREFORE RENT
EMBASSIES HOSTED BIG EVENTS AT
THE PLACES IN WASHINGTON, D.C.
A STATE-RUN CHINESE BANK RENT
SPACE IN TRUMP TOWER.
THAT LEASE IS COMING UP FOR
RENEWAL SOON.
RENEWAL SOON. BEYOND THAT WE’RE STILL TRYING
TO FIGURE IT OUT.
>> THERE’S BEEN SO MUCH
CONVERSATION ABOUT THE
EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE.
EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE. PEOPLE WILL SAY IS THIS A LEGAL
PIPE DREAM.
PIPE DREAM. NEVER BEEN DEFINED.
DOES THIS FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE
THAT?
THAT? >> THIS DOESN’T FUNDAMENTALLY
CHANGE THAT BUT COURTS GETTING
BACK IN THE BUSINESS OF
OVERSEEING THINGS THAT DONALD
TRUMP IS DOING.
LOOK, ANY OTHER PRESIDENT COULD
HAVE DONE THIS.
MANY PRESIDENTS HAVE BEEN
LAWYERS.
LAWYERS. THEY COULD HAVE OPERATED A LAW
FIRM WHILE IN OFFICE,
TECHNICALLY DONE THAT.
IF THEY TOOK ON FOREIGN CLIENTS
THEY WOULD HAVE RUN INTO THIS.
THE DIFFERENCE NO OTHER
PRESIDENTS HAVE PUSH THIS HARD
TO PROFIT WHILE IN OFFICE.
SO IT’S UNLIKELY TO BE THE KIND
OF THING THAT HAS A SYSTEMIC OR
A THREAT TO THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY
BUT IMPORTANT THAT JUDGES ARE
SAYING VERY CLEARLY WE WILL, IF
FORCED BY A PRESIDENT ACTING SO
BRAZENLY WHILE IN OFFICE WE’LL
OVERSEE THIS.
OVERSEE THIS. >> GENE ROBINSON I WANT TO ASK
YOU, YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE
A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE POINTED TO
THE NOTION THAT A POTENTIALLY
SALIENT POLITICAL ARGUMENT
AGAINST REPUBLICANS AND DONALD
TRUMP IS THAT THE SWAMP IS
SUPPOSED TO BE DRAINED, THE
SWAMP IS NOT DRAINED.
THIS EMOLUMENTS QUESTION IS A
PIECE OF THAT AND YET IT SEEMED
TO GET VERY LITTLE TRACTION OVER
THE COURSE OF THE LAST 18
MONTHS.
MONTHS. WHY IT IS THAT DONALD TRUMP’S
OBVIOUS ABUSE OF THE OFFICE IN
VIOLATION OF THE EMOLUMENTS
CLAUSE WHY IS THIS NOT GETTING
MORE POLITICAL TRACTION.
AND MIGHT IT IN THE FUTURE?
>> I THINK IT MIGHT IN THE
FUTURE Y-IT HASN’T TO THIS
POINT, I’M NOT ENTIRELY SURE.
IT COULD BE BECAUSE WE’VE NEVER
HAD -- WE’VE NEVER BEEN HERE
BEFORE.
BEFORE. THIS FEDERAL JUDGE IN MARYLAND
JUST FOR THE FIRST TIME TOLD US
WHAT HE THINKS THE EMOLUMENTS
CLAUSE MEANS.
CLAUSE MEANS. SO NOBODY HAS IN POLITICS HAS
ANY MUSCLE MEMORY AS TO HOW TO
USE THAT CLAUSE IN THE
CONSTITUTION, AND REALLY HOW IT
APPLIES TO DONALD TRUMP.
WE DON’T KNOW.
BUT WE’RE GOING TO FIND OUT.
I WOULD THINK ON ITS FACE THE
WHOLE THING IS SCANDALOUS.
LOOK AT THE WAY HE PROMOTES HIS
GOLF PROPERTIES, FOR EXAMPLE.
WHEN HE WAS IN BRITAIN HE WENT
TO SCOTLAND FOR THE WEEKEND, HAD
NO OFFICIAL BUSINESS THERE,
WANTED TO PLAY GOLF, I GUESS BUT
ALSO WANTED TO RAISE THE
PROPHILADELPHIA HIS FALTERING
GOLF CLUB UP THERE.
IF I SOUND A BIT DISTRACTED I’M
STILL PICTURING BILL KRISTOL AND
FAT JOE IN A STRETCH NAVIGATOR,
SORT OF CRUISING, YOU KNOW, THE
STREETS OF LOWER MANHATTAN.
I JUST THINK THAT’S --
>> WE NEED TO CHANGE THE CHYRON.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. >> I’LL BRING IT BACK A LITTLE
BIT HERE BECAUSE I DON’T HAVE TO
SAY ANYTHING ABOUT BILL KRISTOL.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT
WORK FOR DEMOCRATS IN 2006 WHEN
THEY RETOOK THE HOUSE IS THEY
SAID THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS THE
PARTY OF CORRUPTION.
THAT WAS IRMONIKER.
IT WAS AN EFFECTIVE TOOL.
I THINK THAT WHEN WE’RE TALKING
ABOUT THESE FOREIGN GOVERNMENT
PAYMENTS, AND LITERALLY ANY
BUSINESS HAPPENING AT THE TRUMP
HOTEL YOU CAN EFFECTIVELY MAKE
THAT ARGUMENT.
THAT ARGUMENT. I GUESS THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION
FOR MICHAEL STEELE BECAUSE HE’S
BEEN IN THE TRENCHES.
YOU’VE CERTAINLY SEEN THE KIND
OF STATEMENTS DEMOCRATS CAN THA
FACT, TRUMP IS USING HIS
POSITION TO ENRICH HIMSELF?
HOW POTENT A POLITICAL WEAPON IS
THAT THAT THE DEMOCRATS CAN USE?
>> I DON’T THINK IT’S THAT
POTENT AT THIS POINT LARGELY
BECAUSE ROUGHLY A STRONG SOLID
THIRD OF THE ELECTORATE DOESN’T
GIVE A -- THEY DON’T CARE.
SO IT HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET
THE KIND OF TRACTION THAT YOU
WOULD THINK -- I THINK LARGELY
BECAUSE THE REMAINING TWO-THIRDS
ARE RATHER AGNOSTIC ABOUT IT.
I THINK TO THE EARLIER POINT
ABOUT BEING -- THAT GENE MADE,
BEING IN THE SPACE FOR THE FIRST
TIME, WE REALLY DON’T KNOW.
MOST PEOPLE CAN’T SAY EE MONTHLY
EWEMENTS, LET ALONE KNOW WHAT IT
IS.
IS. THAT IS THE TRUTH ACROSS ALL
LINES.
LINES. IT’S NOT JUST SOMETHING THAT’S
OUT THERE THAT PEOPLE HAVE SOME
UNDERSTANDING, SOME MUSCLE
MEMORY FOR.
MEMORY FOR. THIS IS NEW SPACE.
AND UNTIL THERE IS A DEFINING
MOMENT IN THAT SPACE, THAT
CREDIT CRYSTALIZES OR
CRYSTALS
CRYSTALS CRYSTALS-S, I THINK WE’RE GOING
TO SEE THIS ON A DAY-TO-DAY
BASE.
BASE. >> SO PLEASED WITH HIMSELF.
LOOK AT THAT.
HOW HAPPY THAT MAN IS WITH
HIMSELF.
HIMSELF. >> I WANT TO PICK UP WITH THAT,
I WAS AT THE DNC YESTERDAY WITH
TOM PEREZ AND ALL HIS FOLKS.
AND THE WAY YOU CAN MOLD THAT EE
MONTHLY EWEMENT, THERE IS A LOT
OF POLLING SHOWING VOTERS,
DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS WANT
FAIR PLAY.
FAIR PLAY. IF YOU PLAY IT THAT WAY, THINGS
ARE JUST NOT FAIR RIGHT NOW AND
THAT’S A VERY RESONANT MESSAGE.
>> WELL, I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT
THAT THERE’S CERTAINLY A
POSSIBILITY THERE.
POSSIBILITY THERE. I THINK MICHAEL IS RIGHT, THE
PUBLIC SEEMS NOT TO CARE THAT
MUCH ABOUT THE PRESIDENT GETTING
RICH OFF HIS PRESIDENCY.
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT A GUY WHO
HAS POWER OVER AMERICA’S FOREIGN
POLICY, DOING BUSINESS WITH THE
OTHER PLAYERS IN THE WORLD OF
FOREIGN POLICY.
FOREIGN POLICY. SO THE QUESTION THERE COULD BE
IS HE SERVING HIS OWN INTERESTS
OR YOUR INTERESTS WHEN HE DEALS
WITH THE GOVERNMENT OF THE
PHILIPPINES OR CHINA, OTHERS
PAYING HIM MONEY ON THAT SIDE?
>> THAT’S EXACTLY THE MESSAGE.
IS HE WORKING FOR HIMSELF OR IS
HE WORKING FOR YOU?
THAT’S THE SIMPLIFIED MESSAGE.
>> WELL, THEY HAVEN’T USED IT.
YOU LOOK AT THE ADS, THEY
HAVEN’T RUN THAT MESSAGE.
>> IN THE 2012 PRESIDENTIAL
CAMPAIGN, ONE OF THE THINGS
BARACK OBAMA DID TO MITT ROMNEY
WAS TO FRAME IT IN THE NOTION OF
HE’S NEVER BEEN IN IT FOR YOU.
AND THE NOTION OF MITT ROMNEY
RIPPING OFF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC
WAS AN INCREDIBLY SALIENT
POLITICAL MESSAGE IN A
PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.
PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. AND DONALD TRUMP MAKES WHAT MITT
ROMNEY DID OR COULD BE ACCUSED
OF DOING LOOK LIKE SMALL
POTATOES ON THE LEVEL OF
SELF-DEALING, SELF-ENRICHMENT.
SELF-DEALING, SELF-ENRICHMENT. WHY DEMOCRATS CAN’T CAPITALIZE
ON THIS GIVEN THE HISTORY
THEY’VE HAD IN DOING IT IN THE
PAST IS MYSTIFYING TO ME.
>> I THINK PART OF IT IS BECAUSE
OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
WITH MITT ROMNEY, HE WAS ALOOF
AND AWAY FROM THOSE VERY SAME
PEOPLE WHO THEN MADE A JUDGMENT
ABOUT THAT.
ABOUT THAT. HERE, PEOPLE SEE DONALD TRUMP AS
FIGHTING FOR THEM.
SO HIS RICH GUY CONNECTIONS, HIS
NEW YORK BACKGROUND, ALL OF
THAT, THEY CONSIDER AN ASSET IN
THE WAR AGAINST THOSE THEY FELT
THEY NEEDED TO GO OUT AGAINST
AND DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN THE
TIP OF THAT PARTICULAR SPEAR.
THAT’S WHY IT DOESN’T RESINATE
OR STICK ON HIM THE WAY IT DID
MITT ROMNEY.
MITT ROMNEY. >> DAVID FARRENTHAL, THANKS FOR
YOUR REPORTING.
YOUR REPORTING. WE APPRECIATE IT.
ARI, LET’S TALK ABOUT THE COHEN
REVELATION FROM LAST NIGHT.
WHAT SHOULD WE GLEAN FROM IT?
WHAT SHOULD WE TAKE AWAY FROM
IT?
IT? >> THIS IS VERY BIG.
I DON’T KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM.
THE SOURCING REMAINS TECHNICALLY
ANONYMOUS.
ANONYMOUS. BUT IT RAISES THE QUESTION WAS
DONALD TRUMP WORKING WITH
ADVANCED KNOWLEDGE TO BE PART OF
AN INTERNATIONAL CONSPIRACY,
NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, IS THIS WHY HE MADE
THE AIR FORCE ONE PHONE CALL.
BECAUSE THE TRUMP DEFENSE NEVER
MADE SENSE.
MADE SENSE. WHY DO YOU NEED TO ADVISE PEOPLE
HOW TO DEFEND A MEETING THAT YOU
SAY YOU KNEW NOTHING ABOUT AND
THEN DIDN’T ATTEND?
AND THREE, DID ANYONE ALONG THE
WAY LIE TO AUTHORITIES ABOUT
THIS?
THIS? E-MAIL
E-MAIL MUELLER HAS PROVEN HE IS
WILLING TO CHARGE PEOPLE JUST
FOR THAT.
FOR THAT. SO IF SOMEBODY WAS BASICALLY
LYING ABOUT WHO KNEW IT, WHO WAS
IN THE ROOM WHERE IT HAPPENED,
MICHAEL COHEN IS PUTTING HIMSELF
AND DONALD TRUMP IN THAT ROOM.
SO THE QUESTION IS, DID OTHER
PEOPLER ALREADY LIE ABOUT THAT
AND IS THIS COMING OUT PUBLICLY
BECAUSE IT IS A TIME FOR
CHOOSING.
CHOOSING. >> OR HAVE OTHER PEOPLE TALKED
ABOUT MUELLER AND NOT LIED ABOUT
IT.
IT. >> AND SIMPLY WHO ELSE WAS IN
THAT ROOM.
THAT ROOM. >> IMPORTANT FOLLOW-UP, DID
JAY-Z EVER LIFT THE BOYCOTT ON
CRYSTALL?
CRYSTALL? HAS THAT BEEN LIFTED AND NOW
IT’S OKAY TO CALL BUSINESS BILL
CRYSTAL BILL CRYSTALL?
>> YOU BRING UP A GOOD QUESTION.
ON 44, THE MOST RECENT SOLO
JAY-Z ALBUM, HE REFERS TO THE
FACT THAT HE’S FRUSTRATED PEOPLE
ARE STILL BUYING THOSE OTHER
COMPETING CHAMPAGNE LABELS WHEN
HE’S LAUNCHED HIS OWN
BLACK-OWNED BUSINESS.
BLACK-OWNED BUSINESS. >> BUT YOU REALIZE HE WAS NOT
TALKING ABOUT THAT, HE WAS
TALKING ABOUT BILL CRYSTAL.
>> TO MICHAEL STEELE, I WANT TO
SAY THANK YOU FOR THAT REFERENCE
EARLIER AND I WILL SAY IT WAS
LLOYD BANKS WHO FAMOUSLY SAID
THE ICE ON MY NECK KOOEMS KEEPSE
CRYSTAL COLD, ALSO A BILL
CRYSTAL REFERENCE.
CRYSTAL REFERENCE. >> YOU CAN GET A LOT MORE OF
THIS ON "THE BEAT" AT 6:00 A.M.
EASTERN.
EASTERN. MICHAEL STEELE, FORMER MI-6
AGENT MICHAEL STEELE.
>> THERE YOU GO.
DOSSIER AUTHOR MICHAEL STEELE.
>> WHAT IS GOING ON TODAY?
>> ACCORDING TO SEAN SPICER.
>> IS THERE A TAPE, YES OR NO,
MICHAEL?
MICHAEL? >> THERE’S ALWAYS A TAPE, BABY.
THERE’S ALWAYS A TAPE.