>>> AVALANCHE. LET’S PLAY HARDBALL.
GOOD EVENING, I’M CHRIS MATTHEWS
IN WASHINGTON.
IN WASHINGTON. POWERFUL NEW EVIDENCE TONIGHT IN
THE IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION.
NBC NEWS IS REPORTING THAT
LIEUTENANT COLONEL ALEXANDER
VINDMAN TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT
U.S. MILITARY SUPPORT TO UKRAINE
WAS INDEED CONTENTIONED ON
UKRAINE’S WILLINGNESS TO DIG UP
DIRT ON POLITICAL APOINANTS.
AND THAT’S ACCORDING TO TWO
PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH VINDMAN’S
TESTIMONY.
TESTIMONY. TO DRAW A DIRECT LINE BETWEEN
THE HOLD UP OF MILITARY AID AND
TRUMP’S DEMAND OF POLITICAL
ASSISTANCE FROM A FOREIGN POWER.
THIS COMES AS THE IMPEACHMENT
COMMITTEES TODAY HEARD FROM TWO
FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICERS WITH
INFORMATION ABOUT THE SHADOW
CAMPAIGN THERE WAS WAGED TO
INFLUENCE POLICY TOWARDS
UKRAINE.
UKRAINE. HOUSE INVESTIGATORS ARE ALSO
SUMMONED FORMER NATIONAL
SECURITY ADVISOR JOHN BOLTON
AMONG OTHERS TO TESTIFY NEXT
WEEK.
WEEK. BOLTON’S LAWYERS SAID HE WOULD
NOT APPEAR VOLUNTARILY, BUT
ADDED, I STAND READY AT ALL
TIMES TO ACCEPT SERVICE OF A
SUBPOENA ON HIS BEHALF.
AMID ALL OF THIS WE’RE ALSO
GETTING NEW DETAILS ABOUT THE
DEMOCRATS’ PLAN FORWARD ON
IMPEACHMENT WITH A MOMENTOUS
VOTE SCHEDULED FOR TOMORROW.
WHEN IT COMES TO LIEUTENANT
COLONEL VINDMAN THERE’S ALSO NEW
REPORTING TODAY HE SHED NEW
LIGHT ON TRUMP’S INFAMOUS JULY
25th CALL WITH UKRAINIAN
PRESIDENT ZELENSKY.
PRESIDENT ZELENSKY. NBC NEWS CONFIRMS THAT VINDMAN
TOLD CONGRESS THAT CERTAIN
DETAILS OF THE CONVERSATION WERE
OMITTED FROM THE WHITE HOUSE
SUMMARY OF THE CALL.
OMISSIONS THAT HE TRIED TO PUT
BACK IN.
BACK IN. VINDMAN IDENTIFIED AT LEAST TWO
POINTS LEFT OUT OF THE OFFICIAL
RECORD.
RECORD. ONE, TRUMP MENTIONING POSSIBLE
RECORDINGS OF JOE BIDEN
DISCUSSING CORRUPTION IN
UKRAINE, AND TWO, UKRAINIAN
PRESIDENT ZELENSKY, QUOTE,
MENTIONING BURISMA BY NAME, THE
COMPANY RELATED TO HUNTER BIDEN.
HE TRIED TO CORRECT THE RECORD
BUT WHILE SOME OF HIS EDITS
APPEARED TO HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL
HE SAID THOSE TWO CORRECTIONS
WERE NOT MADE IN THE FINAL
SUMMARY OF THAT CALL.
WELL, THAT CALL RECORD WAS
ALREADY A DAMNING PIECE OF
EVIDENCE FOR TRUMP.
IT SHOWED THAT WHEN ZELENSKY,
QUOTE, REQUESTED MORE MISSILES
TRUMP ASKED HIM IN RETURN TO
INVESTIGATE HIS POLITICAL
OPPONENTS.
OPPONENTS. BUT THESE REVELATIONS MAKE IT
EVEN WORSE.
EVEN WORSE. THE OMITTED DETAILS ARE FURTHER
EVIDENCE TRUMP KNEW HE WAS
SPECIFICALLY TARGETING BIDEN AND
ZELENSKY READ HIM LOUD AND
CLEAR.
CLEAR. I’M JOINED BY DINA TITUS, PETER
BAKER, GLEN KIRSCHNER, A FORMER
FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, AND JEFF
BENNETT IS NBC NEWS WHITE HOUSE
CORRESPONDENT.
CORRESPONDENT. JEFF, TELL US ABOUT YOUR
REPORTING TODAY THAT VINDMAN IN
HIS SWORN TESTIMONY YESTERDAY IN
THAT DEPOSITION SAID THE
MILITARY AID WAS CONTINGENT ON
THE DIRT ON THE TRUMP ENEMIES.
>> AND REMEMBER, CHRIS, IN THE
OPENING STATEMENT WE OBTAINED
VINDMAN TOLD INVESTIGATORS HE
DID NOT THINK IT WAS PROPER FOR
THIS ADMINISTRATION TO DEMAND
THAT A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT
INVESTIGATE A U.S. CITIZEN.
THAT WORD, DEMAND, STRUCK ME AS
CURIOUSLY CONSPICUOUS.
CURIOUSLY CONSPICUOUS. HE COULD HAVE CHOSEN ANY NUMBER
OF WORDS.
OF WORDS. HE COULD HAVE SAID REQUEST,
ENCOURAGE, SUGGEST, BUT HE USED
THE WORD DEMAND.
IT TURNS OUT DURING THE COURSE
OF HIS TESTIMONY HE WENT BEYOND
THAT PREPARED STATEMENT.
AND INVESTIGATORS WERE TOLD BY
TWO SOURCES FAMILIAR IS THAT THE
PRESIDENT DREW A DIRECT LINE
BETWEEN THE WHITE HOUSE
DELIVERABLES, THIS NOELGZ THAT
THERE WOULD BE A MEETING BETWEEN
PRESIDENTS TRUMP AND ZELENSKY,
THIS DELIVERY OF NEARLY $400
MILLION IN SECURITY AND AID
MONEY AND TO THIS DEMAND THAT
UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS OPEN
INVESTIGATIONS INTO A NUMBER OF
THINGS, BURISMA, THE COMPANY ON
WHICH HUNTER BIDEN SAT ON THE
BOARD OF, THE BIDENS, THE 2016
ELECTION INTO CROWD STRIKE.
AND SO BASICALLY WHAT HE’S
DOING, HE’S TELEGRAPHING THIS
QUID PRO QUO THAT PRESIDENT
TRUMP AND HIS ALLIES SAY DID NOT
EXIST.
EXIST. THE SAME QUID PRO QUO THAT MICK
MULVANEY THE ACTING WHITE HOUSE
CHIEF OF STAFF OPENLY ADMITTED
TO IN THE WHITE HOUSE BRIEFING
ROOM BEFORE TRYING TO WALK IT
BACK A DAY LATER, CHRIS.
>> THIS GETS TO THE HEART OF
THOSE WHO THINK TRUMP IS A
CARTOON OF A PRESIDENT.
WHEN NOBODY’S LISTENING HE
REALLY IS BAD AS PEOPLE THINK,
HOW HE CAN EXPLOIT SOME CRAZY
CONSPIRACY THEORY OF THE
FARTHEST RIGHT FRINGE, CROWD
STRIKE, THAT THAT’S REALLY WHO
HE IS.
HE IS. YOUR THOUGHTS AND HOW THAT
PROPELS FORWARD THIS
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. >> WELL, I CAN’T TELL YOU
EXACTLY WHAT WENT ON BEHIND
CLOSED DOORS, BUT I CAN TELL YOU
THAT TESTIMONY WAS CERTAINLY IN
KEEPING WITH THE WITNESS’
STATEMENT THAT HE MADE PUBLIC,
AND HE RECORDED IT IN REALTIME,
REPORTED IT TO HIS SUPERIOR SO
YOU KNOW HE WAS UPSET ABOUT IT
AND KNEW IT WAS WRONG.
AS FOR THE PRESIDENT, YES, IT
DOESN’T SURPRISE ME.
HE’S A TRANSACTIONAL PRESIDENT.
HE LIKES TO BRAG ABOUT BEING
ABLE TO MAKE A DEAL, AND MAKING
A DEAL AND REALLY QUID PRO QUO.
>> PETER, IT SEEMS TO ME I’LL
SAY SOMETHING I READ YEARS AGO
WHEN FDR BECAME PRESIDENT HIS
IDEA OF BECOMING PRESIDENT, OF
RISING TO THE OFFICE WAS TO BEAT
FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT.
FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT. THIS PRESIDENT THINKS IN
BECOMING PRESIDENT HE BECOMES
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP. AT DONALD TRUMP’S WORST THERE’S
NOTHING PRESIDENTIAL IN THESE
CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THEY’RE
HEARING ABOUT UNDER OATH IN THE
LAST COUPLE OF DAYS FROM TAYLOR
AND VINDMAN.
AND VINDMAN. WE’RE HEARING ABOUT A CONMAN, IN
THE WORDS OF PELOSI, I CAN
SHAKEDOWN THIS FOREIGN LEADER
BECAUSE THE RUSSIAN TANKS ARE
MOVING.
MOVING. HE NEEDS JAVELIN MISSILES TO
STOP THEM.
STOP THEM. I CAN GET SOME DIRT OUT OF THIS
GUY BECAUSE HE’S DESPERATE FOR
HIS OWN COUNTRY’S SECURITY.
I CAN USE THAT FEAR OF LOSING
HIS COUNTRY TO GET DIRT FOR MY
NEXT ELECTION.
NEXT ELECTION. THIS IS LOW BROW STUFF.
>> WELL, I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT
TO REMEMBER ABOUT PRESIDENT
TRUMP HE’S THE FIRST PRESIDENT
WE’VE HAD IN OUR HISTORY WHO
COMES TO PUBLIC OFFICE WITHOUT
HAVING SERVED EVEN A DAY IN
GOVERNMENT OR THE MILITARY
BEFORE ARRIVING IN THE OVAL
OFFICE.
OFFICE. SO EVERYTHING TO HIM IS THROUGH
THE PRISM OF HIS 70-YEAR LIFE UP
UNTIL NOW WHICH IS IN BUSINESS
AND ENTERTAINMENT WHERE THE
LINES ARE DIFFERENT WHERE THEY
ARE IN DIPLOMACY, THEY’RE
DIFFERENT IN GOVERNMENT.
AND HE’S CHOSEN NOT TO OBSERVE
THE LINES HIS PREDECESSORS DID.
HE GOT THERE ON THE STRENGTH OF
HIS STYLE, HIS RAM BUNGSBUNCTIOU
PROVOCATIVE STYLE.
PROVOCATIVE STYLE. THE HE SEES IT AS THE OFFICE
SHOULD ADJUST ITSELF TO HIM.
THIS IS WHAT GOT HIM IN TROUBLE
BECAUSE THERE ARE NORMS AND
STANDARDS AND LINES THAT HAVE
BEEN ADOPTED OVER THE YEARS.
SOME OF THEM LEGAL, SOME OF THEM
DIPLOMATIC AND POLITICAL.
DOES THAT ADD UP TO SOMETHING
LARGER THAN, YOU KNOW, SHOCKING
THE, YOU KNOW, STANDARDS OF
WASHINGTON, OR DOES IT ACTUALLY
ADD UP TO SOMETHING
CONSTITUTIONAL.
CONSTITUTIONAL. >> YOU WRITE THE MANU NALSIS OF
THE FRONT PAGE OF "THE TIMES,"
THE VOICE OF TRUMP WE HEARD ON
THE BUS AN "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD,"
THE VOICE WE HEARD THROUGH
MICHAEL COHEN HOW HE PAID OFF
PORN STARS FOR SEX AND PLAYBOY
BUNNIES AND THE WHOLE WORKS,
THAT GUY -- IS THAT GUY IN THE
WHITE HOUSE?
WHITE HOUSE? >> WELL, LOOK, HE’S A
TRANSACTIONAL PERSON AND IN THAT
SENSE, YES.
SENSE, YES. IN THE SENSE HE LOOKS AT THESE
CONVERSATIONS WITH FOREIGN
LEADERS IN THE SAME WAY HE DID
TALKING WITH BANKS OR TALKING
WITH SOMEONE HE WANTS TO DO A
DEAL WITH.
DEAL WITH. >> I KNOW WHY YOU’RE DOING IT
BUT YOU’RE SKIRTING IT.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE SAME PATWA
IF YOU WILL.
THE VOICE YOU HEAR AS
TRANSLATED, THE VOICE ON THAT
PHONE BY ZELENSKY SOUNDS LIKE
THE SAME GUY ON THE BUS, SOUNDS
LIKE THE SAME GUY WORKING
THROUGH HIS FIXER, LAWYER COHEN
IS NOW THINKING GET AWAY WITH
SOMETHING IN THOSE TRANSACTIONS
WITH FOREIGN LEADERS DESPERATE
TO SAVE -- THEY’RE BEING
PATRIOTIC.
PATRIOTIC. THEY’RE SAVING THEIR COUNTRY
FROM THE RUSSIAN TANKS.
WHAT’S HE DOING?
WHAT’S OUR GUY DOING?
>> CHRIS, YOU USE THE WORD
SHAKEDOWN.
SHAKEDOWN. THAT’S WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE.
AND LET ME TRY TO BREAK IT DOWN
IN LAYMANS TERMS FOR PEOPLE
BECAUSE WE HEAR CONTINGENT
FOREIGN AID AND QUID PRO QUO,
AND PEOPLE TEND TO GET LOST IN
THAT KIND OF VERBIAGE, SO NOW I
THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE
PIVOTING.
PIVOTING. WHY BECAUSE THE PROCESS ARGUMENT
IS FALLING BY THE WAYSIDE, THE
NO QUID PRO QUO ARGUMENT IS DEAD
AND STINKING ON THE SIDE OF THE
ROAD AT THIS POINT.
SO WHAT DO WE HAVE?
WE HAVE THE REPUBLICANS SAYING,
WELL, PUTTING CONDITIONS ON
FOREIGN AID IS NOT OUT OF
BOUNDS.
BOUNDS. THAT MAY BE.
THINK ABOUT THIS --
>> WILL THEY GO THAT FAR?
>> THEY WILL GO THAT FAR BECAUSE
THAT’S ALL THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE
LEFT.
LEFT. IF WE SAY YOU KNOW WHAT WE’RE
GOING TO GIVE $400 MILLION IN
AID TO A FOREIGN COUNTRY BUT WE
TELL THAT CONTRA YO NEED TO STOP
GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED ETHNIC
CLEANSING IN THAT COUNTRY, THAT
WOULD BE A GOOD THING.
BUT WHAT DO WE HAVE TRUMP DOING,
TRUMP SAYS I’VE GOT YOUR $391
MILLION IN AID, AND BUT YOU KNOW
WHAT I WANT, THIS IS
HYPOTHETICALLY, HE COULD BE
SAYING I WANT A PIECE OF IT, I
WANT A LITTLE KICK BACK.
WE WOULD ALL SAY THAT’S DEAD
WRONG, AN ABUSE OF POWER AND
IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE.
IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE. HE’S DOING SOMETHING WORSE THAN
THAT, WHY?
THAT, WHY? BECAUSE A MILLION DOLLAR KICK
BACK IS ONLY WORTH SO MUCH.
DIRT ON BIDEN, A FABRICATED
INVESTIGATION THAT WILL HELP HIM
WIN IN 2020 IS SO MUCH MORE.
>> ANYWAY, LIEUTENANT COLONEL
VINDMAN’S ACCOUNT APPEARS TO
CONFIRM THAT THE WHITE HOUSE
SUMMARY OF THE TRUMP-ZELENSKY
CALL WAS NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE
OR COMPLETE.
OR COMPLETE. THAT’S BECAUSE THE INCLUSION OF
ELLIPSES, THOSE LITTLE THREE
DOTS THAT SAYS SOMETHING IS
MISSING SUGGESTS THREE EXCERPTS
WERE EITHER REMOVED OR SIMPLY
LEFT OUT.
LEFT OUT. "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTS
THAT VINDMAN’S EDITS WOULD HAVE
FILLED IN ONE OF THOSE BLANKS.
QUOTE, WHERE THE THIRD SET OF
ELLIPSES APPEARS AND WHILE
VINDMAN SAYS HE DOESN’T KNOW WHY
SOME OF HIS EDITS WERE REJECTED,
IT ROW COUNTS HOW THE CALL WAS
HANDLED.
HANDLED. IT WAS LOCKED DOWN ON A SECURE
SERVER THAT SERVES THIS
COUNTRY’S HIGHLY CLASSIFIED
STATE SECRETS.
STATE SECRETS. THEY SQUIRRELED IT AWAY IN AN
OLD LOCK DOWN SOMEWHERE.
CONGRESSMAN, TITUS, TELL US
ABOUT THIS.
ABOUT THIS. I KNOW YOU’RE BOUND TO SECRECY
ABOUT THE WORD SPOKEN TODAY, BUT
THE SMELL OF IT, WHAT ARE YOU
GETTING HERE IN ALL THESE BACK
DOOR HEARINGS IN THE SCIF?
>> THE FACT THEY PUT IT IN THAT
SECRET LOCK DOWN PLACE AGAIN
TELLS YOU IT WAS OUT OF THE
ORDINARY, AND ALTHOUGH THEY SAID
THEY WOULD GIVE US A DIRECT
TRANSCRIPT, THEY DIDN’T.
THEY GAVE US A SUMMARY.
AND DON’T FORGET THE SUMMARY
SAID I WANT YOU TO DO US A
FAVOR, THOUGH.
FAVOR, THOUGH. I WANT TO GO BACK TO YOUR
EARLIER POINT, THOUGH.
THIS ISN’T JUST ABOUT NOT USING
GOOD DIPLOMATIC LANGUAGE AND
BEING A GOOD POLITICIAN AND NOT
BEING A GOOD BUSINESSMAN, THIS
IS CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES.
THIS IS NATIONAL SECURITY.
THIS AFFECTS NOT JUST US AND
UKRAINE BUT US AND RUSSIA.
I THINK IT’S MUCH GREATER THAN
THAT.
THAT. AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT AND
REPUBLICANS ARE DOING IS CLASSIC
WAG THE DOG.
THEY CAN’T DEFEND THE ACTIONS.
THEY HAVE NO DEFENSE AGAINST THE
FACTS AND SO THEY TRY TO CHANGE
THE SUBJECT.
THE SUBJECT. THEY ORDER PIZZA IN THE SECURE
ROOM.
ROOM. THEY TALK ABOUT HOW -- ANYTHING