(dramatic music)
- [Karina] So-- - What's your name?
- My name's Karina
- Karina, hi Karina!
- [Audience] Hi Karina.
- Oh, come on you gotta do better than that.
Hi Karina.
- [Audience] Hi Karina.
- Okay.
- [Karina] Hey guys, nice to meet you.
So my problem is
how do I grow in a saturated market space
with a lean team, but we're very agile?
- Can you tell me little bit more about your business?
- [Karina] We're in entertainment, so we make video games.
- Make video games, okay.
- [Karina] But I bet no one in this room here
plays a lot of video games
maybe one in every 10 people here
play video games or know what that's about.
- I play video games, I get it.
- [Karina] You play video games?
Okay, cool!
Do you wanna buy my game?
- What kind of game do you make?
- [Karina] We make adventure strategy games for the PC.
- Oh for PC, okay.
Not app or anything like that, just PC?
- [Karina] Just PC for now.
We'll start with PC.
- Okay, and then what the strategy game?
Tell me a little bit more.
- [Karina] Our games would be more tactics.
- Tactics, okay.
- [Karina] Something for big kids like me
big kids like all of us, who like chess
someone mentioned chess here earlier.
Let's say like we had
Fallout, it's kind of like an action game, exploring game
but then we also have real-time strategy games
like Warhammer, if anyone's familiar with Warhammer.
- Out of all, how many games have you made?
- [Karina] In my career?
- Yeah.
- [Karina] I've made a lot of apps and mobile apps
Facebook apps.
- Which one is the most successful?
- [Karina] We had one game with about 1.7 million users.
- Download?
- [Karina] Yeah, downloads.
- Free downloads, right?
- [Karina] Yes, but mobile's a very interesting space
so I wanted to move it to PC.
It's more premium from what I experienced.
- Okay, so you have got one game on app
that's got 1.7 million downloads, which is good--
- [Karina] It's okay.
- And then you have in-game purchase
and things like that, right?
- [Karina] Yep.
- Was that profitable?
- [Karina] Not really.
- Not really, okay.
Even that's the most successful game you've developed?
- [Karina] I've worked with some other people
who've made successful games.
- Got it, but now you're doing it on your own.
- [Karina] Yes.
- How long been doing it on your own?
- [Karina] Not long.
Less than a year?
Less than six months.
- Okay, and usually how long does it take to develop a game?
- [Karina] So we're very agile.
It would usually take about two years
but we think we can do it in about
a year an a half.
- A year and a half?
- [Karina] Yeah - Okay
Notice, as I'm asking questions, what am I doing?
What am I doing?
- [Male Audience Member] Making her think.
- No, but also yes, but what am I doing though?
- [Female Audience Member] Understanding her business?
- Yeah, understanding her business
so same thing with you, as you're listening
think in terms, you can do the same thing for what you do
or even for your friends.
So with that, most successful 1.7 download
now you're doing on your own, for PC
and so what's your challenge?
- [Karina] We're trying to enter a distributing platform
with about a 120 million users
but there are many, many other games to compete with.
So if we have a very lean budget
how do we get ourselves out there?
How do we get ourselves known?
How do we get to the front page?
- With this type of model, as you know
they're not just saturated, in the game industry
it's owned by a handful of big companies.
You have a lot of
Apps is a little bit different.
Apps you have guys, independent company
they kinda do their own thing and try to make it big.
But most game, you're talking about PC games, right?
Give me one of the most popular PC games.
- Warcraft, right? - Most popular?
- [Male Audience Member] Warcraft?
- Warcraft, Warcraft's pretty popular, right?
I played it when I was in high school, you know, it's okay.
- [Karina] It's okay now.
It's declined a lot.
- Give me one that's most popular.
- [Karina] I think right now we're looking at
Metal Gear Solid, would be a really good one
Dota, League of Legends--
- Yeah, that's also very popular.
- [Karina] Those are the popular ones.
- So you know there's a lot of these games
cost how much money to make?
- [Karina] Millions?
- Millions, how much money to market?
- [Karina] Also millions?
- So the odds are not so good, right?
How many of you watch Dragons' Den?
Anyone watch Dragons' Den?
(audience murmurs)
Yeah, I love Dragons' Den.
'Cause you know that sometimes the entrepreneur
they've got this product
and they're so emotionally attached to the product.
And then sometimes the Dragons'll say
"no, you know.."
I remember, I forgot which episode, but this entrepreneur
developed this product and he said
"I'm gonna find distribution.
"I'm gonna pitch the company.
"I'm gonna get shelf space.
"I'm gonna..."
I think it's some kind of a game
maybe board game, I don't quite remember
and then, he was talking about this and Kevin O'Leary
was like, "that's a stupid idea!
"You don't wanna do that.
"You should license this thing to big company
"who's already got distribution
"who has already got the contact, who's got..."
I don't so much believe in, I'm not saying it cannot be done
but the odds are not good.
- [Karina] What if I have data to back up our projection?
- For?
- [Karina] If we wanna enter the PC platform
and let's say I
sent a test product into the environment
and we only made 2,000 impressions, but the data looked good
what would you suggest?
- So you got little bit of traction?
- [Karina] Just a little bit, yes.
- So you mean you can raise money to push that.
- [Karina] Potentially.
- Okay, let's say you do raise the money.
Say, pretend I can give you any amount
of money that you need
what would you do?
- [Karina] We'd hire a marketing strategist, first of all.
We'd need some content creators
so we'd hire a programmer and we'd hire an artist.
- Don't hire me.
I'm not for hire.
(audience laughs)
- [Karina] That's all we'd need, just small piece.
- Okay, so marketing strategist?
- Yup. - And then
they would do what?
- [Karina] Prepare us for launch, mostly.
Make sure that we have...
When we launched our product, we got 2,000 impressions
just organically, but we need about 10,000
to make it work officially for us.
So if we had that marketing strategist who was able to
kind of ramp us up towards that
we think we coulda reached 10,000, but we missed by a bit.
- So if you reached 10,000, how much money you woulda made?
- [Karina] Well, if we reached 10, at least a hundred grand.
For a small team, it's not bad to get us started.
- Yeah, so think there are many many things goings on here
So with, first of all, the product itself
Motives in terms of your goal.
If you just wanna make a couple hundred grand
that's what I call a lifestyle entrepreneur.
A lot of people are lifestyle entrepreneur
like graphic designers, consultants and coaches.
They're happy with that, and they "oh, you know
"a hundred grand a year, that's comfortable for me
"that's all I wanna do."
Like you said, "you know, for a group of us
"we share the money, that's not too bad!"
But if you wanna grow, that's one thing
if but you want to grow a company
that's a whole different thing, all right?
- [Karina] Oh, okay!
- That's a very different thing.
So the objective is say, "you know what?
"I don't wanna sell 10,000
"I wanna sell 100,000 of these games"
versus half a million of these games
versus just want to make little enough money
so that I'm comfortable.
Can you see the difference?
Yes? - [Karina] Right.
- Yeah, it's very different objective.
Both are good.
But I'm just saying if you wanna get your game
I believe anything that you do
you should do it to the highest degree.
If you're gonna get out there in the marketplace
I would rather prove the traction
and then pitch the company.
Say, "you know what, we've got traction.
"I will license the game for you."
And then you get paid a little bit of money
a royalty of some kind, and then just get paid
versus you go through all of the
Look at entrepreneurs, I mean that's why 95%
of businesses fail in the first 10 years.
The odds are against you.
And if that's the case, how can we be the five percent?
Well, you get into that five percent
just like what Toby was talking about with us
if you don't have to put in a ton of money
and you can leverage existing platform
you lower your risk.
So I would do that instead.
What is the shortest path to profit?
In this way, you make it enough for traction
and bam, why not use their money?
Why not use their contact?
And chances are, even if you raise the money
if you hire a marketing company to do that
you still don't know.
You know how gaming works.
Sometimes some games takes off.
Sometimes you think a stupid game
"c'mon, who wants to play that dumb game?"
and it takes off like...
What is it, couple years ago we had the game
the little bird-- - Flappy Bird?
- What is it? - Flappy Bird.
- Yeah, I mean, it's this dumbest game!
(audience laughs)
Like, what the fuck is this?
You know, I remember I was playing on it
and my friend showed it to me, I was playing
I said, "what is this?"
It's like (mimics striking noise) and then I was dead.
Okay now low down and get serious about this, right?
(audience laughs)
And then (blows through lips), and then (mumbles), Shit!
Right, and I play for like, 30 minutes later
I'm like, "this is the dumbest thing ever!
"Don't bother me, let me do this."
(laughs)
And it's addictive!
Who woulda thought
If I tell you the concept, "you know what,
"I'm gonna make a game that's so difficult to play
"with a stupid bird going through these obstacles
"and chances are you won't go very far."
You talk to an investor like that
"what the hell is this?"
You know what I mean?
So you never know.
- [Karina] Okay, so if I have time for one more question?
- Yes
- [Karina] How would I pitch my company
or my product right now?
Let's say that was my pitch, how would I get huge--
- Let's say now you have traction.
I get this from entrepreneurs quite often.
"who do I talk to?
"I don't have contacts."
It's all limiting belief.
Truly is limiting belief
because anybody now with Linked-In
you can find the person who's in charge
in that department.
Who's in charge of the games licensing?
Whatever is that department
you can get through to those people.
Just like
I have a podcast called Shoulders of Titans.
It's free.
Shouldersoftitans.com, you guys can listen to it.
People ask me, "how do I get access
"to some of these people?"
The people I interview.
Couple weeks ago, I interviewed the founder
of Priceline.com.
Grew a company from zero to two billion dollars, right?
I don't know him!
Oh, Dan you must have some magical connection!
Here's the magic, it's called email.
(audience laughs)
I emailed a guy, and he said no.
And I email him again, he said no.
After 12 times he said, "stop bothering me, I'll do it."
(audience laughs)
There's no magic, it's hustle.
- [Karina] Hustle?
- It's how I get through these people.
So it's not like you need some magic connection.
Once you have a proven game, it's a good game
you've got some proven traction
you just pitch him, "hey you know what
"I'm talking to this company."
And then you tell them you're talking
to other companies as well.
"We're looking for a partner
"who would wanna license this game.
"And you can see this is what we have."
And then you can play, and...
And then you let them know you're talking
to other people, and you just pitch them.
You might have to pitch them more than once, or twice.
But once you get one game in, you're in.
'Cause next time, you're like, "you know what?
"I like what your team has done."
It's getting your foot in the door
that's the most difficult, right?
But once you're in, "okay this group of guys
"know what they're doing."
It's like, one of my companies, Corporate Champions
we have clients who are Microsoft, Amazon
Telus.
People say, "how do you get through to them?"
You just LinkedIn, and you contact with them
and you follow-up, and you email, you phone call.
It's not rocket science.
And you talk to a hundred, 10 will say yes.
And then next year, another 10 will say yes.
And then now you've got Amazon, you've got Microsoft
you've got all these companies
and I talk to the other company, "oh yeah
"I've already got Microsoft, Amazon.com
"all these top companies, would you like to get involved?"
"Oh sure!"
That's how hard it is, right?
I've also got a duty-free shop
and this art dealer company, all that
but it's just how we started off with one.
And I can tell you, how we started is
actually, if you're curious
that we started giving away what we do for free
so we'd get the first couple name in the door.
So we got the
credit unions
as our client
but the first year we actually gave it for free
where we offered the service.
The second year, they came back and said, "full price."
But it's better if I get credit union
then I can talk to Vancity, I can talk to TD Bank
I can talk to you all, "oh, I've already got credit union."
Does that make sense?
So think of who in your market
this might be helpful for everyone
who in your market, if you could get that person
you would get everybody else.
The kingpin of your marketplace.
If you get that influencer, you get everybody else.
It helps, right?
- [Karina] Right.
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