THE QUESTION OF WHAT THE PROPER ROLE OF THE MEDIA HAS
COME UP QUITE A BIT DURING THIS PAST ELECTION, AND OF COURSE
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CHRISTENDOM ABOUT HOW THE
MAINSTREAM MEDIA HAS ADDRESSED CERTAIN CANDIDATES,
INCLUDING DONALD TRUMP.
RECENTLY, MICHAEL WOLF, WHO ALSO CONSIDERS HIMSELF A JOURNALIST,
WITH INTERVIEWS, AND DURING THIS INTERVIEW HE WAS TOUGH ñ ASKED
ABOUT WHAT HE BELIEVES THE PROPER ROLE OF JOURNALISTS
SHOULD BE, AND HE TALKED ABOUT HOW JOURNALISTS HAVE MOVED
AWAY FROM THAT BY DOING PESKY LITTLE THINGS LIKE SHARING
AN OPINION, OR MAY BE FACT CHECKING.
TAKE A LISTEN TO WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.
I LIVE THROUGH A LOT OF PRESIDENTS.
I'VE LIVED THROUGH NIXON.
SO HE DOESN'T REQUIRE THEM WAY THE MEDIA ñ
HE DOESN'T REQUIRE THE MEDIA TO CHANGE.
I THINK WHAT'S REQUIRED IS FOR THE MEDIA TO DO ITS JOB,
AND I DEEPLY FEEL LIKE THE MEDIA HASN'T DONE ITS JOB.
HAS DONE ITS JOB BADLY, HAS OFTEN ABDICATED ITS
RESPONSIBILITY.
HAS LOST ITSELF SOMEWHERE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THEY ARE,
AND RIGHT NOW, THIS IS AN INTERESTING MOMENTS IN WHICH THE
MEDIA LOOKS AT, SUDDENLY LOOKS AT DONALD TRUMP AS A THREAT
INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT DONALD TRUMP AS A STORY.
AND I MIGHT ADD, POSSIBLY THE BIGGEST STORY OF OUR TIME,
OF MAYBE THE MOST INTERESTING STORY.
CERTAINLY A STORY THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD IN RATHER
CONVENTIONAL WAYS.
WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?
WHAT DO THEY WANT?
WHAT MOTIVATES THEM?
WHERE ARE THEY FROM?
WHERE ARE THEY GOING?
JUST BASIC STORYTELLING.
SO, HE'S GOING TO ELABORATE A LITTLE MORE IN THE VIDEOS THAT
WE ARE GOING TO SHOW YOU ABOUT WHAT HE MEANS BY "BASIC
STORYTELLING," BUT HIS BIGGEST GRIEVANCE WITH CURRENT DAY
JOURNALISTS IS THAT THEY DON'T SIMPLY, NOT TRANSLATE, BUT
TRANSCRIBE WHAT PEOPLE IN POWER SAY, AND THEN LEAVE IT AT THAT.
HE THINKS THAT'S THE ROLE OF A JOURNALIST.
YOU DON'T DO THE FACTS CHECKING, YOU DON'T SHARE CONTEXT,
YOU JUST SHOVEL ONE SIDE SAYS, WHAT THE OTHER SIDE SAYS,
AND THAT'S IT, YOU LEAVE IT AT THAT.
HE'S GETTING A LOT OF HEAT FOR WHAT HE'S SAYING, BUT THIS
IS NOT A NEW IDEA, THIS IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT A
LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WORK IN MEDIA BELIEVE YOU SHOULD DO.
THEY BELIEVE IT'S ACTUALLY UNETHICAL TO GO OUT OF YOUR WAY
AND TELL THE AUDIENCE, OR TELL YOUR READERS WHO IS RIGHT AND
WHO IS WRONG.
IT REMINDED ME OF SOMETHING I READ TODAY, BEFORE KNOWING ABOUT
THIS MICHAEL WOLF STORY, WHICH IS SOMETHING CHRISTIANE MIKE ñ
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, WHO IS A "ESTABLISH" JOURNALIST.
SHE ACCEPTED AN AWARD FROM A GROUP CALLED THE COMMITTEE TO
PROTECT JOURNALISTS, AND SHE SAID SHE BELIEVES THAT
JOURNALISTS, SHE BELIEVES IN BEING TRUTHFUL, NOT
NEUTRAL, WHICH IS SUCH A BEAUTIFUL WAY OF PUTTING
EXACTLY WHY MICHAEL WOLF IS WRONG HERE.
I THINK THAT WOLF IS, I DON'T THINK HE'S DICTATING, HE'S
SAYING THIS IS WHAT HE THINKS SHOULD BE AND WE'VE LOST OUR
WAY, I JUST TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH IT.
I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY A VERY HARMFUL WAY OF EXPLAINING WHAT A
JOURNALISTS ROLE IS, BECAUSE WE'RE ALREADY SEEING THAT FEAR
AMONG PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE MAINSTREAM ALREADY: THE
FEAR OF BEING CRITICIZED FOR TAKING ASIDE.
HERE ON THE SHOW WE ARE VERY CLEAR THAT WE COME FROM A
PROGRESSIVE PERSPECTIVE, THE FACTS ARE THE FACTS YOU CAN'T
CHANGE THAT, BUT WE SHARE OUR OPINION ON THE STORY AFTER
WE GIVE YOU THE FACTS.
AND YOU GUYS CAN DECIDE IF YOU AGREE OR NOT, AND A LOT OF YOU
DISAGREE A LOT OF THE TIME AND THAT IS ñ THAT'S OKAY, BUT WILL
HAVE CASES A LOT OF THE TIME WHERE, LIKE CNN WON'T DO
ANY ACTUAL REPORTING.
WHEN I TRAVEL FOR THE SHOW, MY FAVORITE THING TO DO IS
WATCH CNN WHILE I'M IN THE HOTEL ROOM, BECAUSE I WANT TO BE
AWARE OF THE WAY THAT THEY REPORT.
I DON'T WANT TO COULD ASSESS THEM UNLESS I KNOW THE WAY THEY
REPORT ñ
VIDEO BUFFERING ñ
YOU CAN SPEND FIVE MINUTES ON THE STORY, IT'S NOT THAT
IMPORTANT, BUT THEY FOCUS ON A NONSTORY FOR DAYS, BECAUSE I
THINK IT'S AN EASY THING TO COVER WITHOUT SHARING YOUR
OPINION, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND THEN THEY ALSO HAVE DONALD TRUMP COME ON, OR DELL HAVE SOME
OTHER POLITICIAN COME ON, AND SAY THEY ARE BOTH DISAGREEING
WITH EACH OTHER, THEY'LL JUST LET BOTH SIDES SHARE WHATEVER
IT IS THEY THINK, AND THEN THEY WON'T DO ANY FACTS CHECKING.
THEY ARE CONFUSING OBJECTIVITY WITH NEUTRALITY, AND THAT'S
SOMETHING A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA CONFUSE.
A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TIME TO GO OUT OF THEIR WAY AND
BE JOURNALISTS FOR THEMSELVES, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING
A JOB AND TELLING THEM WHO IS LYING AND WHO IS TELLING
THE TRUTH.
AND CNN HAS A LOT OF WHAT PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO CITIZEN
JOURNALISM DON'T HAVE, WHICH IS EDITORS.
WHEN THEY HAVE ñ WHEN THEY DO A STORY, IT'S VERY DIFFERENT THAN
WHEN THEY HAVE A GUEST ON WHAT THEY DO COMMENTARY.
WHEN THEY DO A STORY, THOSE NEWS PACKAGES, THOSE HAVE BEEN
VETTED, AND THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT ñ THEY ARE TALKING TO
SOURCES, AND WHETHER IT'S ABOUT WHERE MELANIA TRUMP WILL
LIVE OR NOT, OR WHETHER IT'S ABOUT SYRIA, OR WATER
CONTAMINATION IN NEW MEXICO, IT DOESN'T MATTER, THERE ARE PEOPLE
WHO ARE SCRIPT SUPERVISING AND LOOKING AT THAT SCRIPT.
THAT'S A PROBLEM WHEN YOU ARE 24 HOUR NEWS, IS BECAUSE WHEN YOU
GET ON WITH TWO PEOPLE ON THEIR TALKING ABOUT WATER
CONTAMINATION, AND ONE PERSON SAYS IT'S NOT CONTAMINATED AND
THE OTHER PERSON SAYS IT IS CONTAMINATED, THERE'S NOBODY ON
THERE CHECKING THE FACTS, AND THAT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.
MEDIA JOURNALISM SYMPATHY GIVING PEOPLE A POSITION OF POWER TO
TELL WHATEVER IT IS THEY WANT TO TELL, THE PURPOSE OF
MEDIA ñ
VIDEO BUFFERING-
SEEMS QUITE CONTENT IN GIVING UP ANY PRETEXT OF ñ VIDEO
BUFFERING-
IS JUST TO REPRESENT THE FACTS.
BUT WE DO WANT TO BE STENOGRAPHERS EITHER,
THERE'S A BALANCE THERE.
1ST THING, YES YOU DO WANT TO BE STENOGRAPHERS, THAT'S WHAT
JOURNALISM ñ IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF JOURNALISM,
IS TO BE A STENOGRAPHER.
WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOU, WRITE IT DOWN, WRITE WHAT THE
INFORMATION IS.
YOU ARE THERE TO LITERALLY CONVEY WHAT SOMEONE SAYS,
SOMEONE IN POWER, WHAT THEY SAY, AND BRING ITS PEOPLE THAT
YOU KNOW.
THAT STENOGRAPHY.
THIS, STENOGRAPHER, THAT'S BAD, SCREW YOU, IT'S NOT BAD AT ALL.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA?
I CAN DO A LITTLE DIGRESSION ON MY BELIEF THAT, YOU KNOW,
JOURNALISM IS NOW A PROFESSION FILLED WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE
NO EXPERIENCE AS JOURNALISTS.
YOU KNOW, THEY ARE ALL UNDER THE AGE OF 25, AND TALKING TO OTHER
PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 25, SOMA AND ME ñ LET ME SEND THE
MESSAGE: STENOGRAPHER, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE.
AND LATER ON HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST
JEALOUS BECAUSE I SCORED AN INTERVIEW WITH STEVE BANNON.
I DON'T KNOW, IN THAT ANSWER IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU ARE JEALOUS OF
JOURNALISTS WHO ARE ñ YOUNG JOURNALISTS WHO ARE
ACTUALLY DISRUPTING THAT TYPE OF MEDIA THAT YOU THINK ARE GOOD.
DONALD TRUMP HAS WON NOW, THAT TYPE OF OPPOSITION IS OVER,
WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO IS REPORT WHAT HE DOES AND
WHAT HE SAYS, THAT'S ALL YOU DO.
THERE'S NO TIME PROPOSITION, IT'S OVER.
HE SO MISGUIDED.
I SHOULD DISCLAIMER THIS THAT I READ THE BOOK ABOUT MICHAEL WOLF
BY RUPERT MURDOCH, AND I THINK IT WAS GREAT, HE'S A GREAT
WRITER, AND EVEN LISTENING TO HIM SAY A FOOLISH PIECE OF
NONSENSE ABOUT THIS, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK THIS IS, IT DOES
ALSO BETRAY THAT HE'S NOT A DUMB GUY, EVEN IN THE WAY THAT HE'S
SEEING IT AND HOW HIS OPINIONS ARE FORMED; HE'S A SMART
GUY AND HE'S A GOOD WRITER.
HE IS SOMEBODY THOUGH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, HE IS SO
ENVIOUS OF THE WAY HIS BUSINESS HAS CHANGED.
HE'S NOT AND IN THE FIELD REPORTER, HE WAS AN EDITOR AT A
MAGAZINE, HE'S A WRITER, HE HAS COVERED MEDIA MORE THAN HE
HAS BEEN IN MEDIA.
WHO IS TO SAY THAT HE IS ENVIOUS, BUT IT CERTAINLY
SOME QUICK YEARS IN THOSE REMARKS.
BUT THEY PUT THIS INTO CONTEXT.
INTO ñ IN REPORTING THIS LAST ELECTION, AT DIFFERENT EVENTS,
DIFFERENT EVENTS WITH PEOPLE WOULD LOOK AT EACH OTHER
AND SAY, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THAT?
WHATEVER IT WAS THAT COMP SAID.
AND IT WAS A PREVAILING, SORT OF, COOL IDEA IN THE WAY THAT,
EVERYBODY LET'S SIGN UP FOR THE MUSLIM REGISTRY, WE DON'T KNOW
IF THAT'LL HAPPEN, BUT IT WAS, LET'S WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING HE'S
SAYING, BECAUSE ONLY LISTENS TO US ANYWAY, SO THIS AND
EXASPERATION THAT MAKES YOU SAY, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD DO.
BUT IT IS AN EXTREME, AND HE SOUNDS REALLY SERIOUS HERE.
WHICH, NOBODY WAS SERIOUS, EVERYBODY WAS SAYING, WHAT
DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHAT HE SAID?
EVERYBODY WAS JUST TRYING TO SAY IT AND THEN GO HOME.
IF HE WAS MAKING AN ARGUMENT THAT ALL THESE OPINIONS ARE
UNNECESSARY, AND YOU SHOULD USE THE REPORTING, FINE, BUT
STRAIGHT REPORTING HAS BEEN COMPLETELY MISINTERPRETED.
SO ñ BUT HE SAYING STENOGRAPHY.
SO ESSENTIALLY ALL YOU DO IS TRANSCRIBE WHAT SOMEONE IN POWER
SAYS, AND YOU ALLOW THEM TO UTILIZE YOUR PLATFORM AS A
WAY IN WHICH THEY CAN GET OUT ANY MESSAGE, BE IT A
DECEPTIVE MESSAGE, BE IT A DESTRUCTIVE MODE ñ
MESSAGE, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
SO THERE'S NO PURPOSE TO THE MEDIA, IF ALL IT IS IS A VESSEL
FOR PEOPLE IN POWER TO SPREAD THEIR MESSAGE, OR
MISINFORMATION, OR WHATEVER, THEN THERE REALLY IS NO
PURPOSE OF JOURNALISM.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO CHALLENGE PEOPLE IN POWER, NOT JUST
SERVE AS A TOP FORM FOR THEM.
AND WHEN EIFFEL, WE LOT ñ WE LOST THIS WEEK, READING SO MANY
THINGS ABOUT HER, ONE OF THE THINGS SHE SAID WAS JOURNALISM
SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT, WHEN YOU ARE A JOURNALIST, YOU SHOULD
APPROACH EVERYTHING WITH SKEPTICISM BUT NOT CYNICISM.
SO WHAT MICHAEL WOLF IS SAYING IS DON'T APPROACH IT WITH
ANYISM.
YOU ARE JUST READING BACK A TRANSCRIPT.
PEOPLE OF COURSE GAVE HIM A LOT OF CRITICISM AFTER HE HAD THIS
INTERVIEW, AND GLENN GREENWALD, WHO I BELIEVE IS A REAL
JOURNALIST ALSO CRITICIZED HIM, BUT WHAT I FOUND FUNNY IS THAT
PEOPLE WENT INTO HIS WIKIPEDIA PAGE AND THEY EDITED HIS PAGE TO
INDICATE THAT HE IS A STENOGRAPHER.
HE SHOULDN'T CONTEST THAT, HE THINKS STENOGRAPHY IS AWESOME,
THAT'S WHAT HE THINKS THE MAIN ROLE OF A JOURNALIST IS.
I WANT TO GO TO GRAPHIC 6.
HE DID RESPOND TO THE CRITICISM IN A TWEET, AND HERE'S WHAT
HE HAD TO SAY: "I DIDN'T SAY IT'S THE ONLY JOB.
BUT IT CLEARLY IS A BASIC ONE.
WHY EVEN DENY IT?
SELF-PROMOTION?
SELF DRAMATIZATION?
COME ON."
IS THE ISSUE, I THINK THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH SOME JOURNALISTS,
EVEN MEMBERS OF DIGITAL MEDIA, WHO MAKE THE STORY ABOUT
THEM; WHO ARE MORE INTERESTED IN BECOMING THE STORY.
AND I THINK THAT BREAKS SOME JOURNALISTIC ETHICS THAT I
AGREE WITH.
I DON'T THINK THE STORY SHOULD BE ABOUT YOU, I THINK THE STORY
SHOULD BE ABOUT THE INFORMATION, AND FACT CHECKING WHAT IT IS
THAT ANYONE IN POWER IS SAYING.
IF YOU HAVE TWO SIDES, DON'T TREAT BOTH SIDES LIKE THEY ARE
BOTH COMPLETELY EQUAL.
ONE SIDE MIGHT BE LYING, SO YOU WANT TO LOOK INTO IT ñ
BOTH SIDES MIGHT BE LYING, SO YOU WANT TO LOOK INTO IT.
YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU GIVE ACCURATE INFORMATION.
OPINION IS ONE THING, AND EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR
OPINION ñ, AND IF IT'S EVEN BETTER WHEN MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA
SHARE THEIR OPINION SO YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM.
SO THAT THAT ñ BECAUSE THE THING IS, WHETHER THEY SHARE IT OR
NOT, THEY HAVE THAT OPINION, AND SOMETIMES IT COMES OUT IN OTHER
WAYS WHEN THEY PRETEND THEY'RE BEING OBJECTIVE.
I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, AND LISTEN, HE CLEARLY FEELS
PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS.
YOU HAVE TO RESPECT THIS, EVEN THOUGH IT SEEMS ABSURD TO
ME, AND HE HAS DUG HIS HEELS AND ON ITS.
HE HAS NOT BEEN LIKE, OH NO THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT, SO THAT
REALLY HAS A BIT TO DO WITH IT, I JUST TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH IT.
THIS IS AN UNUSUAL VIEW, BECAUSE JOURNALISTS WHO HAVE ALWAYS BEEN
OBJECTIVE, AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN NEUTRAL, BUT OBJECTIVE ñ AND,
YOU KNOW, THAT GOES AGAINST WHAT CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR SAID ñ SHE
SAID YOU HAVE TO BE TRUTHFUL, NOT OBJECTIVE, AND THAT'S TRUE
AS WELL, OBVIOUSLY.
BUT THIS YEAR, PEOPLE HAVE WANTED TO ñ WHO NEVER HAVE
BEFORE ñ TAKE A SIDE IN THIS ELECTION, BECAUSE WHAT ñ OF WHAT
THEY SAW AS THIS TOTALLY OUT OF BOUNDS WAY THAT DONALD
TRUMP WAS TREATING THE MEDIA.
YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T ñ YOU GET TO YOU POORLY COME YOU DON'T JUST
LIE DOWN AND GET TREATED POORLYÖ SO THIS YEAR, THAT INSTINCT TO
BE THAT WAY MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR JOURNALISTS TO
SORT OF CONTEMPLATE THEIR ROLE, WHICH IS WHERE I THINK WOLF
IS COMING FROM, BUT THE WAY HE'S DEFINING THIS ROLE IS
RIDICULOUS.
HE JUST BOUGHT UP ANOTHER HUGE STORY THAT I DIDN'T COVER, BUT
I'M SURE TYT COVERED.
DONALD TRUMP CALLING, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST NAMES IN NEWS TO
TRUMP TOWER, AND BASICALLY SCOLDING THEM, AS THOUGH THEY
HAD DONE AN EFFECTIVE JOB OF CRITICIZING HIM OR HOLDING
HIM ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS.
THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA ESSENTIALLY GAVE HIM A PLATFORM WHERE
HE COULD SPREAD HIS RIDICULOUS IDEAS.
HE COULD CALL IN, OKAY, WITH A CRAPPY GRAPHIC, AND SAY
WHATEVER HE WANTED, AND THEY BARELY CHALLENGED HIM OR
QUESTION ANYTHING HE WANTED TO SAY.
BUT IT DIDN'T MATTER, HE LITERALLY STILL CALLED THEM
TO TRUMP TOWER AND SCOLDED THEM FOR NOT DOING A BETTER JOB,
FOR NOT BEING NICER TO HIM.
SO THERE'S A BIG PROBLEM WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MEDIA
RIGHT NOW, I DON'T CARE IF THAT'S A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN
DOING THAT, THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR,
AND IT'S EVEN MORE UNACCEPTABLE IF MEDIA OUTLETS COMPLY
WITH THAT KIND OF GARBAGE.