Congresswoman Cori Bush, welcome to the show.
Thank you. This is amazing.
This is a really interesting time
to speak to you because the last time we spoke
was virtually. That was over Zoom.
- Yes. - Right?
And you had been in Congress for a few weeks,
it feels like. - Yeah.
Something like that.
TREVOR NOAH: And now you've been there for two years.
Two years. TREVOR NOAH: Almost two years.
So-- - Yeah.
I'm almost the OG. - Almost the OG.
[laughter]
I would love to know.
As somebody who is freshly part of the machine that runs
America, if you had a magic wand,
what would you change about the way the capital works?
You know, I wouldn't have everything
move based upon seniority.
Also, there are great people doing great things that have
lived experience, and lived experience should
count for something, and oftentimes in Congress,
it has hasn't.
[applause]
I feel like you're the perfect person
to speak to that.
We've spoken a little bit about your journey,
and your book goes so much deeper into your life.
When we spoke last time, I had an understanding,
a slight one, of the journey you had been through.
After reading the book, though, I
realized there is so much more that defines who you are
or what you've gone through and who you-- what's shaped
who you've gone on to become.
You talk in the book about suffering
through sexual assault. You talk
in the book about suffering through domestic abuse.
You talk about coming back time and time again,
dusting yourself off, working through your trauma
and building yourself back stronger.
Tell me what that has done for how you see your role
as a lawmaker in America.
Yeah.
It keeps-- so that pain stays before me.
I still remember what that pain was like to be hungry,
to go for days without eating, just
making sure my children ate.
I remember what it was like to close my eyes
and hope my kids--
my kids didn't freeze to death in the car
while we were sleeping in the car, unhoused.
I remember what it was like to be brutalized by the police
back in Ferguson in 2014.
I remember what it was like to go
through those sexual assaults and not have any type of help,
not have any crime victim support helping me.
I remember what it was like to not get justice.
And so because I still--
I physically can feel the pain, and I remember
what it was like, I have to push that
much harder because somebody else
is going through it right now.
And for me to just feel like, well, I'm in Congress.
We can do all of these incremental changes.
And you know, I'll wait my turn, you know?
No, but there's somebody that's hurting the way that I had
to struggle and hurt for so long,
when I was wondering who helps, who speaks to my issues,
who's going to help me?
There's somebody saying that right now.
And I'm in a position to do something.
And so why am I in the position if I'm
not willing to push and put everything on the line
to save lives?
[applause]
It's not easy because you work in an environment
where everything is so slow.
Oftentimes, when you talk to lawmakers
and when you talk to Congress people who've been doing it
for a long time, they do have a certain apathy towards how
long something takes.
There's a lot of exchanging of favors and deals.
There's a lot of, this is how the machine works.
Are you able to get through to some of your older companions
and your work colleagues now?
Are you able to express to them the urgency
behind some of the initiatives that you're
trying to move forward?
Having the conversations, yes.
And many of them come to me.
It took a while for some of them
to see like, OK, this is why she pushes so hard,
or this is why she keeps driving these same issues,
this is why she cares so much about people being evicted
or Black maternal health issues and all, and so on and so on.
Now some of them get it, and so they'll come to me
and say, hey, how do you feel about this?
But still, getting a bill passed or getting a bill,
you know, that is one where we get
to look at what is actually happening in our communities,
not bypass the things that are uncomfortable,
actually address--
you have to address poverty head on.
You can't play around with it.
You have to address it.
If we want to deal with crime, we have to address the root
causes of crime, head on.
And who better to be able to put
forth legislation to do that than people
who've gone through that?
And so that's the thing.
So that's where we're seeing--
I am seeing change in that area.
But it's just going to take a lot more work.
TREVOR NOAH: And when you look at some
of the work-- you know, I appreciate how
nuanced you are in the book.
You share really intimate and painful
stories regarding your journey with abortion in the book.
You talk about being a rape victim,
and you talk about how you had an abortion after that.
You also talk about having an abortion at the age of 19.
And as you read through these stories,
it would be so easy for you, as a Democrat,
to make it seem like a rallying cry that's clean,
that has no nuance in it.
And yet in the book, you talk about the conflict
around abortion.
You talk about the pain and the difficulty
of making that decision, seeing the topic
through different lenses.
I really found it painfully honest
because it feels like in American culture now,
every issue is binary.
No one wishes to discuss the messy around the truth.
Why did you choose to share it like that?
And were you afraid that some would
say, oh, Cori, why are you giving them ammunition on us?
Why are you giving people the little crack
in the door to talk about the messy side
of the topic of abortion?
Yeah.
I really toiled with that.
I mean, I wanted to take it out of the book at one point.
And I did want to--
I did think about the attacks or how
my words could be weaponized against abortion
clinics and providers.
But there is--
I can't overlook what I went through because it's
not just my story.
It's the story-- especially some of that
is the story of so many Black and Brown women that have
gone-- and pregnant people who have had abortions or sought
out those-- they were seeking out those services
and weren't able to get them.
And so I can't I can't push past that because that's
part of the story.
And if we're too--
you know, we're silent about those issues
or if we allow folks to silence us
because we're afraid of what they'll say,
then we will never get those-- we will never
see change in those areas.
So I need people to know that still don't believe her
or still don't believe them.
I need them to know this is what you're pushing
to the side when you blame it on us, when you say-- like,
so those pieces really matter when
we're telling our stories because it
helps people to see--
it helps to humanize the situation
for people a lot more.
TREVOR NOAH: I think it really does.
But it's interesting that you brought up
the weaponizing of your words.
You know, you've been very vocal in how you wish that
your area in Saint Louis would reallocate its funding
and start creating programs that would prevent crime,
programs that would inspire people to-- or give people
access to jobs, et cetera-- - Yes.
--in the community.
Many people have now said to you that you are antipolice.
How do you find that nuance?
How do you find the nuance--
well, how do you even find the balance
in trying to have a conversation with people
where you propose solutions to issues in the long term
without making it feel like you're completely
neglecting the short term?
You know, we have to remember that there were
people who spoke out against slavery,
the abolishment of slavery.
Did that make-- were they right,
or were they just going along with the status quo?
Is it about the easy thing or the right thing?
And for me, it's about the right thing.
And so I understand that people look
at it as being antipolice.
I'm not antipolice, not in any way.
I want police to do police work.
I don't want police to be therapists.
I don't want police to be mental health providers.
I don't want police killing Black folks
disproportionately in this country and with impunity.
I want folks to be safe in my community.
And because I have the power of the pen
and the power of the purse, along with my colleagues,
it's up to me to do something about it.
I, myself, being a victim of police violence,
but witnessing other families go through this,
sitting with those families, hearing those stories--
I'm a Ferguson protester.
I remember 400 days of protest and protest after that.
My purpose is to change what we allow,
change what public safety is.
It should be actual safety for all, not for some.
It should be for all.
And if me being--
getting criticized and attacked and being isolated
is what has to happen to bring that about to help
the conversation continue to move,
that's fine, because it can save a life.
If I save one life, then it was worth it because somebody died
because we didn't push harder.
[applause]
Thank you, Cori Bush.
Thank you so much for joining me again--
- Thank you. - --on the show.
Thank you.
Absolute pleasure having you.
The Forerunner is available now wherever books are sold.