I'm joined today by Matt Dillon hunty he is host the atheist experience he's
regularly engaging in formal debates travels the US speaking to local secular
organizations
and university group as part of the secular Student Alliance is speaker's
bureau
a bunch of our audience actually suggested that we have met
on and interestingly enough Matt it it a lot of those recommendations are after I
had a conversation
with the pastor named Carl gallops and I had ask are all
to give me some kind of evidence a reason why he believes the bible
is the word of God that comes from outside
the Bible itself and we basically got to the point where he was number one
talking about Deuteronomy as evidence from outside the Bible
that the Bible is the Word of God but then he also said that
the fact that things that the Bible predicts have happened would be evidence
that the Bible is the Word of God
to most have my audience that's an argument that didn't make sense
I'm curious how you tackle those arguments in the debates that you do
I think I did and you know very much the same thing you did I i keep asking for
evidence from outside the Bible so that we're not in this position it constantly
trying to verify could the Bible just claims it can't
also be the evidence for the claims I'm this is i think i taken in
a similar task actor tacked on that but it strange that this is what keeps
coming up I debate last Friday you
with Ray Comfort all the pics wouldn't call it a debate where each he
just said flatly no. interest in demonstrating got existed we already
know we're just lying about it
and he believes the bible that's all there is to it so it's it's a very
difficult
subject to get through because the beginning with a very different
starting point than we are about how you determine what's reasonable to believe
when you were a thinking up being a Baptist minister
for some time was there a specific moment you remember
where you said not only am I not sure
I want to be a Baptist minister I don't think I believe in Christianity anymore
yeah there was a I can't pinpoint a single moment or single event or E or
even a single
argument I was basically studying with the goal of eventually come
convincing my atheist roommate although we had had no conversations about this
and you this was a fairly long period study
I was between jobs here as I am today and
over body 18 months or so was let me be the best defender Christianity I can be
let me fulfill my obligation under 1st Peter 3:15
tape to give the reason for the papers with me and at some point and I don't
remember exactly when
or why is just like the
the wealth information ages can have
worst my belief to collapse to where I said you know
I don't know what I believe I don't know if I believe in a God but I definitely
don't believe what I used to believe so let me investigate further let me see if
there's some other God or some other God concept
within christiano or outside a bit I'm
that could be true or that I that i think is more reasonable
and that led to Canada deeper study of philosophy logic and
skepticism to determine you know how to direct
that search so when that happened was your initial feeling one
love disappointment or or being
I kinda been it was a negative emotional state or was it in a way positive
and liberating because I could see it going either way and I have seen it go
either way I get tons an email from people
who are you know elated I'm as I was
you know by the time I finally realized I'm that I
could should identify as an atheist is incredibly liberating it was our
you know it's not so much I didn't dwell on the fact that I had believe something
that I now thought was incorrect for so many years
I embraced the fact that now I've been corrected
I'm its its kinda the the foundation 0
science and and similar thinking that I E
you want to leave as many true things in a few false things as possible and so
when you're corrected that's a wonderful thing cuz now you got reality but I've
heard from so many people
who were just despondent and quite many of them were
upset over this idea that they had lost an eternal life
and that always struck me as strange because I don't but can see how you
could lose something that you never had
that's interesting and that this idea of being open to the changing a believes
kind of came up in this debate between Bill Nye
and Ken Ham from the creation is a museum I have a couple a specific
questions about the debate for you but
what were your thoughts about the debate happening in general
it was very interesting to me but my concern was that in some way
it was legitimizing the views have can hand as worthy of being debated
in this very kinda elaborate way with the scientist and that that in itself
was a was a concern
yeah that's a common objection the people like Richard Dawkins and others
have
some reason why Richard doesn't have a creationist I'm
I wasn't so much concern for that reason I was opposed to it in general because
my understanding is that the Creation Museum was in financial trouble
and to me this was Bill Nye
taking the opportunity to make sure that they got about your money
because no matter how this debate turned out Ken Ham is going to make money off
this if you
if you would have done well in one which I don't think is the case
I'm or even portray to rate really well he
that's a marketing tool and if he fails as evidently
even Christian website polls show that ninety-two percent but bill
don i won that still becomes a he
marketing tool for him because he can say look we've got to do more we need
more money to
to debate this in Dubai you know bring more information we've got to do a
better job
all this just kinda funds the Creation Museum now overall I thought bill did
a good job i mean they were mistakes but Ken Ham was
I'm sorry to say such a poor debater that he just kinda missed
them one of the most interesting thing specifically from the debate was this
moment where
they were each asked what might change their minds
and can hand essentially said nothing that it doesn't matter what could
what anybody could tell him a show him he's going to believe that the Bible is
little
literal word of God whereas Bill Nye said what evidence would change my mind
and when people talk to me about this I say I have no personal interest
in there not being a god I have no personal interest
in making those who believe that feel bad or proving them wrong
I have an interest in just believing what i think is the truth
truth based on evidence that has been presented to me I'm 100 percent open to
the idea that there is
a higher power of some kind it could be a god it could be a more advanced
civilization that has created the universe as a simulation as I talk to
you
astrophysicist Lawrence Krauss about do you find
that most non-believers are in the camper
being open to there being a god or there in the camp
love knowing there is no God
it's really hard to say because I primarily in Iran in
circles as skeptics I'm and
in this up those 80 s that are skeptics in the eighties because a skeptical
reasons
I think that they're all open there were hate should give us the evidence shows
you know we would like to believe as many true things that you've all seen as
possible we're not beginning with this we don't want to believe in a god thing
there are plenty baby is out there who I just
flatly a certain others notice things God nai I have no interest in you know
that
even possibly being true and there are others who say thing similar that are
often misrepresented
I'm your kitchen's a it famously said that unit who
this idea the Christian God in particular he wouldn't even want it to
be true
and what he will what he meant I definitely agree with the you know he
was trying but the character this individual in the model that they've
created in the univers room
but if they're is gone I'd certainly like to know about anime
not in any way proposing that its necessarily impossible
there's nothing that qualifies in that realm it's just that I
haven't seen the evidence for what gone and the things that kinda
bothers me sometimes when I hear from people about
kind of questioning my my believes is the idea that
what what if I'm wrong type of thing and again
its it's not one of these things were I many on any kind of crusade I I was
raised Jewish relatively secular had a couple years at Hebrew school
it was never understood within my family that what I am being tied is literally
true but the idea was this kind of interesting cultural stuff here about
Jews as a people
that we kinda want you to grow up in and it was never adversarial for me
in anyway and I find that that sometimes something that comes up very often
talking to you
those who are very religious that it seems
it has always been an adversarial thing for them this does God exist or does God
not exist were for me it was hey i'm open to it either way
yeah it's not I don't like you know I I'd love to find out whether or not this
is actually
true this there's claims that I got this I find that you know the
coming from your background into primarily cultural judy is in
the other conflict a is not as
prevalent their in Parker's have to do so much work to become a jew love you if
you were born one
and the in a reformed judaism doesn't require that one actually believe in a
god
but coming from my background there certainly is a lot more adversarial
in to this but my biggest I'm
most definitely in Evangelical atheist re preaching atheist
and actually I'm and public preaching on behalf a skepticism
a but unlike some skeptics who would say that they don't care what people who
believe they care about the methods that they use to reach those please
I actually also care about what people believe because we what people believe
informs their actions and their actions have consequences for themselves and
others so I care that somebody
you know believes that their God has ordained for example marriage is being
one man one woman forever
the objective that are very real for people yeah it's the actions they take
on be happy to police
and it seems to be kind have non-productive counterproductive to to
say
I don't care a police I only care about your actions if you really care about
the actions
you work to educate people so that their Police change
we've been speaking with Matt Dillon hunty he is hosted the Atheist
Experience check that out Matt great to have you on and I'm sure we had plenty
of time for more and we'll definitely have you back
thanks very much they would appreciate