John: Plastic it seems is
unavoidable in our daily lives,
from takeout containers to water
bottles and maybe even that tub
of ice cream.
Two new studies out this week
find we are eating and drinking
more plastic than we might have
realized.
In one of them, for the first
time, researchers were able to
measure nanoparticles of plastic
in bottled water.
On average, a liter bottle had
240,000 tiny plastic particles,
often smaller than a speck of
dust.
They can pass through the
intestines and lungs, directly
into the bloodstream and then to
other organs.
Another study looked at what we
eat.
It found microplastic in 88% of
the tested protein samples.
Seafood, beef and pork, tofu -
they all had it.
George Leonard is one of the
co-authors of the protein study
and is chief scientist at ocean
conservancy.
Scientists have known for some
time about fish because of the
water that it is in, but why did
you decide to look at other
protein?
And were you surprised by any of
your findings?
George: We were.
At ocean conservancy we care
deeply about plastic pollution.
We have been interested in
understanding the distribution
of plastic in marine life and
particularly in seafood for a
long time.
But we realize we also eat a lot
of seafood, and we're all
consumers of all kinds of
different food.
So we thought it would be useful
to try to put marine data in the
context of other proteins that
we choose the grocery store.
So our hypothesis really is that
there might be some differences
between those that are growing
in the ocean, those that are
grown on farms and that are
animal products, or maybe these
new animal substitutes, the meat
substitutes that are on the
market.
What we found out was in fact
there are essentially
micro-plastics in all of these
protein choices.
If you are looking to be a
protein eater, you cannot really
avoid microplastics.
John: [16:30:34]I think we can
understand in seafood where it
comes from, it comes to the
water that they're in.
But where does pork and beef and
especially plant-based protein
like tofu, where does it come
from there?
George: In the ocean, plastics
are in the water, so they are
either ingested, they can come
through the gill systems of fish
and shellfish.
For terrestrial animals and
plants for that matter, in some
respects it's very similar.
We know there's a lot of
microplastic contamination in
the soil.
So you can find micro-plastics
that are essentially taken up by
plants through the roof systems,
through the soil, and animals
are drinking water that is
likely contaminated with
microplastics.
They are eating a variety of
different foodstuffs, which
themselves may have plastic in
them as well.
Many of the processed proteins
and other foods we are eating
may be picking up micro-plastics
from the processing itself.
John: [16:31:38]I know you're
not a physician.
You're not an epidemiologist.
But is there any scientific
agreement or understanding of
what ingesting -- a person
ingesting this kind of plastic
does to them?
George: That is true.
All the authors on our study are
marine biologists by training.
But we think the medical
profession should be concerned
about this as well, and they a
re.
I would say we are concerned,
but we should not be panicking.
We know that plastics in the
various chemicals used to
produce them and the chemicals
they absorb in the natural
environment can be delivered
into animals.
And they have found their way
into a variety of organ systems,
including in humans.
We are finding it in oru P --
finding it in our poop, in our
bloodstream, in other organs in
our system.
The question is are the kinds of
contaminants that are well known
in plastics being delivered at a
sufficient dose to actually be a
risk to human health? And that's
the question that has not yet
been answered.
But I think it is important for
all of us to address.
John: So we know it's in bottled
water, it's in sources of
protein.
If someone wants to minimize
this or avoid it altogether,
what can they do?
George: You mentioned this
bottled water study earlier,
which was a fascinating study in
its own right, because they
found extremely small plastics,
these are called nanoparticles.
They are 1000 times smaller than
the kinds of particles we were
sampling in our study, and were
found to be 10 to 100 times more
common than we thought for
plaque or sticks -- for plastics
in bottled water.
This is the frontier of new
techniques to detect these
things at the nanoscale.
There are some things
individuals can do to avoid that
, but more importantly at the
societal level we need to reduce
our use of plastics and advance
policies to deal with those.
That's what we do here at ocean
conservancy.
But you're if you're an
individual consumer, there are a
couple things you can do.
I think you can use filtered
water, you can use glass to
store and drink your water
rather than plastic.
You can avoid foodstuffs that
are wrapped in plastics.
I have seen bananas in the store
wrapped in plastic, which, of
course, is completely
unnecessary.
There are other ways that you
can essentially reduce your use
of single-use plastics and keep
your foodstuffs away from them.
John: How easy are you finding
that if you try to get away from
single use plastics, how easy is
it?
George: It is a challenge, and
that is why we need broad
systemic changes to how we as a
society produce, manage, and
dispose of plastics.
It is easier than you think.
I remember here in California we
had a big debate a number of
years ago about bringing your
own bags to the grocery store so
that we would not use single-use
plastics in the grocery store.
We passed a bill to do away with
that.
Within a week or so I find
myself pretty easily using these
bags.
There are ways we can change our
individual behavior that can
overcome these entrenched
behaviors many of us have.
John: George Leonard of ocean
conservancy, thank you very
much.
George: Thank you.
♪♪