MSNBC, "NEW YORK TIMES"
CONTRIBUTOR, KARA SWISHER, AND
BRANDING AND MARKETING EXPERT
DONNY
DONNY DEUTSCHE.
I SPENT TIME AFTER THE ELECTION
ON THE ROAD INTERVIEWING TRUMP
SUPPORTERS, EVEN MORE THAN FOX
NEWS, MORE THAN BREITBART, THEY
ALL GOT THEIR NEWS FROM
FACEBOOK.
WHY ARE THEY BAD AT WEEDING OUT
LIES?
>> BECAUSE THAT’S NOT THEIR JOB.
SO ESSENTIALLY YOU’RE TALKING
ABOUT INEFFECTIVE GATE KEEPERS.
THE OLD WORD FOR OLD MEDIA IS
GATE KEEPERS, IT IS EDITING,
THINGS LIKE THAT.
THEY’RE BAD AT DOING WHAT
THEY’RE NOT GOOD AT DOING.
IT SOUNDS CONFUSING.
THEY NEVER EXPECTED TO BE IN
THIS ROLE, YET THEY ARE IN THE
WAY THEY BUILT THEIR SYSTEMS
FORCES THEM INTO IT.
EVEN THOUGH MARK ZUCKERBERG
DOESN’T WANT TO BE AB BITTER OF
THE TRUTH, HE BUILT A SYSTEM
THAT REQUIRES ONE AND THEY’RE
BAD AT IT.
THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE SEEING,
THAT’S WHY YOU SEE HERKY JERKY
MOTIONS FROM ALL OF THEM.
>> HOW DO THEY GET TO THE
POSITION OF BASICALLY BEING THE
STICKER ON THE CARTON SAYING
READING THIS TWEET, THE TWEET IS
A LIE, OTHERS SAY THIS ISN’T
TRUE.
HOW DO THEY GO FROM NOT SEEING
IT AS THEIR JOB TO FLAGGING
EVERYTHING DONALD TRUMP TWEETS
BECAUSE IT IS A LIE.
>> SOME PEOPLE THINK THE LABELS
ARE INEFFECTIVE.
IT IS LIKE PUTTING IT ON
CIGARETTES, CIGARETTES MIGHT
CAUSE CANCER, COULD BE, A LOT OF
PEOPLE THINK THE LABELS ARE
INADEQUATE.
I THINK THEY HAVE A CUMULATIVE
EFFECT OF SAYING SOMETHING IS
WRONG HERE, BUT I THINK THEY
HAVE TO, THEY HAVE BEEN FORCED
INTO.
THEY HAVE SEEN THE PROOF THAT
ALLOWING THESE PLATFORMS TO
OPERATE AS IF BENIGN OR JUST A
PLATFORM LIKE WATER GOING
THROUGH A TUNNEL OR SOMETHING
LIKE THAT, THEY JUST AREN’T
THAT, SO THEY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT
THEY’RE MEDIA COMPANIES, WHAT
KIND OF MEDIA COMPANIES THEY
ARE, THAT THEY ARE MEDIA
COMPANIES, THEY HAVE TO EXERCISE
EDITORIAL DISCRETION.
GIVEN THE VOLUME OF STUFF THAT
COMES OVER, IT IS ALMOST
IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SO.
IT IS VERY MUCH IMPOSSIBLE TO DO
WELL.
THEY’RE TRYING.
THAT’S WHAT THEY’RE DOING NOW.
THEY DECIDED IT WAS SHAMEFUL
WHAT HAPPENED THE LAST COUPLE
YEARS, NOW THEY’RE GOING TO DO
SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
>> KARA, I ASKED YOU ABOUT THIS
BEFORE, I THINK THE THING THAT
RUBS A LOT OF PEOPLE THE WRONG
WAY IS THEY THINK THEY’RE GOOD.
YOU WATCH THE FACEBOOK ADS, THEY
THINK THEY’RE DIGITAL HALLMARK,
AND THEY’RE PERFECT VARS OF
POLITICAL PORN.
DO THEY STILL THINK THEY’RE GOOD
GUYS?
>> I THINK WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO
IS DEFEND AN INDEFENSIBLE THING.
WHETHER IT IS ADDICTIVE, MARK
ZUCKERBERG SAID IT IS
MEANINGFUL, USEFUL.
HE SOUNDS KIND OF RIDICULOUS
WHEN HE DOES THAT.
WHAT’S INTERESTING IS YOU HAVE
PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES HAVING
PROBLEMS WITH THEM FOR DIFFERENT
REASONS.
JUST TODAY BEFORE I CAME ON
HERE, SACHA BARON COHEN MAKING
ONE COMPLAINT, AND SENATOR
HAWLEY WAS MAKING ANOTHER ONE.
I THINK THE ISSUE IS ENORMOUS
POWER BY PEOPLE ABLE TO WIELD IT
PROPERLY, AND THAT’S WHAT WE
HAVE TO FIGURE OUT.
THERE SHOULD BE A BIPARTISAN
EFFORT TO GET TOGETHER TO FIGURE
OUT WHAT ARE THE GUARDRAILS,
WHAT IS FREE SPEECH.
ARE THESE PUBLIC PLATFORMS?
THEN THEY SHOULD GO REGULATED
LIKE A UTILITY.
THESE ARE DISCUSSIONS THAT NEED
TO HAPPEN, NOT NONSENSE ABOUT
CONSERVATIVE BIAS.
THE REASON CONSERVATIVES GET
DINGED MORE, THEY LIE MORE ON
THE PLATFORMS, THERE ARE NEW
RULES.
THAT MAY NOT BE A GOOD WAY TO
SOLVE THE PROBLEM, BUT SHOULD BE
DISCUSSED IN A WAY TO TRY TO
PROTECT AS MUCH OF THE TRUTH AS
POSSIBLE.
IT IS NOT GOING TO BE PERFECT,
BUT THERE HASN’T EVER BEEN A
DISCUSSION WHAT TRUE POWER
MEANS, WHICH MEANS MARK
ZUCKERBERG RUNS A SYSTEM THAT HE
CONTROLS COMPLETELY, THE ONLY
SYSTEM IN TOWN.
THAT’S REALLY THE PROBLEM.
WE HAVE A COMPANY STORE THAT’S
CONTROLLING OUR CIVIC
DISCUSSION.
>> DONNY, WHEN I THINK ABOUT
THESE COMPANIES, I THINK ABOUT
THAT DOCUMENTARY WHERE THE GUY
WENT AND ATE McDONALD’S EVERY
DAY FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS TO SEE THE BODY SYSTEMS THAT SHUT DOWN
THE BODY SYSTEMS THAT SHUT DOWN
WHEN HE GORGED ON JUNK FOOD.
>> YEAH.
>> WHAT WAS THAT CALLED?
SUPER SIZE ME.
I THINK OF PEOPLE ON FACEBOOK
AND TWITTER, GORGING ON BAD
QUALITY INFORMATION.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE PRANLDB
AND WHAT SHOULD THEY DO?
>> I WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY
WHAT SOCIAL MEDIA IS.
WHAT’S HAPPENED OVER TIME, WE
STARTED TO LAYER SOCIAL MEDIA
AND IT WAS SET UP AS NEWS AND
INFORMATION.
SOCIAL MEDIA ARE WEBSITES AND
APPLICATIONS THAT ENABLE USERS
TO CREATE AND SHARE CONTENT OR
PARTICIPATE IN SOCIAL
NETWORKING.
PART OF THE PROBLEM IS, I WOULD
CHALLENGE THE MARK ZUCKERBERGS
OF THE WORLD AND JACK DORSEYS OF
THE WORLD, PUT MONEY BEHIND A
SERVICE CAMPAIGN, SAME WAY YOU
TELL PEOPLE NOT TO DRINK AND
DRIVE.
LET’S DESIGNATE IT, STOP ACTING
LIKE IDIOTS, JUST BECAUSE I SAW
IT THERE, THAT’S TRUE.
NUMBER TWO, TO THAT POINT, WHY
DON’T WE DESIGNATE WITHIN SOCIAL
MEDIA, IF YOU WANT TO BE SEEN AS
NEWS AND INFORMATION SOURCE,
THEN YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A
DIFFERENT LITMUS TEST.
INSTEAD OF DOING IT TWEET BY
TWEET, IF YOU WANT TO BE SEEN,
OTHERWISE DISPLAY FROM TWITTER
IS WE ARE NOT NEWS AND
INFORMATION.
THIS IS OPINION.
THIS IS SOCIAL MEDIA.
THIS IS INSTAGRAM.
PART OF THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVE
ALLOWED THIS OVERALL HUGE
BEHEMOTH CATEGORY TAKE
HONESTENS, MEANING, PURPOSE THAT
IT NEVER HAD.
I WANT TO PUT THAT CHALLENGE
BACK TO THESE COMPANIES TO
REMIND WHAT THEIR SERVICE IS,
AND AT THE SAME TIME ONE LAST
THING I WANT TO SAY IS WE CAN’T
ABDICATE, I COME FROM A
BACKGROUND WHERE ADVERTISING WAS
BLAMED FOR EVERYTHING.
PEOPLE WOULDN’T SMOKE WITHOUT
ADVERTISING.
I ALWAYS SAY THAT’S BALONEY.
IF PEOPLE WANT THE TRUTH OR
DON’T WANT THE TRUTH, THAT’S UP
TO THEM.
SO MANY PEOPLE AT THIS POINT
DON’T WANT THE TRUTH.
THEY WANT TO JUSTIFY THEIR POINT
OF VIEW, WE END UP BLAMING MEDIA
COMPANIES VERSUS THE INDIVIDUAL
THAT HAS SOME RESPONSIBILITY TO
DO THEIR OWN EDITING AND
UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE TRUTH
IS.
>> LET ME PUSH BACK A LITTLE
BIT.
I THINK PRESIDENT OBAMA MADE
CLEAR IN HIS INTERVIEWS THIS
WEEK, I THINK THE PROBLEM IS IT
IS NOW A THREAT TO THE DEMOCRACY
IN WHICH WE LIVE THAT THERE’S
SUCH A PREVALENCE OF
DISINFORMATION.
I SEND THAT BACK TO YOU, KARA.
IT IS NOW APPEARING THE COUNTRY
HAS NO NEED TO BE CONTROLLED BY
THE RUSSIANS, WE DO A PERFECTLY
ADEQUATE JOB DIVIDING OURSELVES
WITH DISINFORMATION
DOMESTICALLY.
DO THEY SEE OR FEEL ANY URGENCY
BECAUSE OF ANY ACKNOWLEDGMENT OR
UNDERSTANDING OF THEIR
DETRIMENTAL ROLE IN SPREADING
DISINFORMATION?
>> I THINK THEY DO, AND I AM
GOING TO PUSH BACK ON DONNY.
THIS IS INFORMATION LIKE YOU’VE
NEVER SEEN.
AMPLIFICATION AND WEAPONIZATION
OF INFORMATION, NOT LIKE A
BILLBOARD OR ADVERTISING IN A
MAGAZINE OR TELEVISION, THOSE
ARE LIMITED TO THE NUMBER OF
EYEBALLS.
IN THIS SYSTEM YOU CAN SEND 1
MILLION DIFFERENT IDEAS TO 1
MILLION DIFFERENT PEOPLE, AND
THAT’S A BIG DIFFERENCE.
AND THE FLOOD OF INFORMATION IS
THE PROBLEM.
IT IS FLOODING.
NOT JUST A DRIP DRIP OF
CIGARETTES SOLD TO TEENAGERS, BY
THE WAY, ADVERTISING DID HELP
PEOPLE SMOKE A LOT MORE, JUST
DID.
IT WAS VERY CLEAR.
THINK ABOUT THAT ON STEROIDS TO
THE ENDTH DEGREE.
THAT’S WHAT’S HAPPENING HERE.
THEN THE LEVEL OF PLAYERS OF
WHICH THERE ARE MANY, WHETHER
DOMESTIC OR FOREIGN, GET ON THE