Film Courage: Can you explain why outlining matters to all the screenwriters who
are set against it?
Marc Scott Zicree, Screenwriter/Author: You don't want to outline such a degree that you have no
juice left for the script you know it's not it's not like building a concrete wall around yourself
that you can't break out of it's basically to give you the bones of structure so you know where your
story is going now in television outlining is much more important because if you're under the gun
if they're going to be shooting in three weeks or two weeks or tomorrow you can't go off into
left field you have so that's when outline really needs to be nailed down um in features let's see
what what this really speaks to is you need to you need to understand how structure works
you know because structure I early in my career I struggled a lot with structure and then there
was one period one summer where I was writing I think all the episodes of a series for cbs
and um I was writing so much and so quickly all of a sudden it just clicked in
it was like it went right into the groove and suddenly structure was simple for me
it was just like built it was like the bones of a house and the bigger the story the bigger the
house but it's like the framework that holds it all together and I understood that and
then it became just second nature it was very funny when I when Michael Reeves and I were were
uh outlining the uh the sulu story the star trek story that we we did with George Takei
we were both old hands Michael was a writer who got me into television at one point we're
outlining the steps and jotting it down and then about two-thirds of the way through we just looked
at each other and Michael said you got this right and I said yeah and then so we didn't outline the
rest of it because we both knew where it went and then we just wrote it and but again you have to be
a really old hand to know how to do that stuff but um but outlines are great because then you know
well rod used to say rod certainly you say that if he knew the ending he could write a script but
if but he said i've got so many stories where it's a beginning in the middle and and no end
and he said I can't write those because I don't know where they go I don't know how they resolve
and so outlining rigorously outlining means you know the beginning the middle and the end and uh
because you do not want to get lost in the middle you know and uh or at the beginning or anywhere um
because a story has to satisfy the viewer it has to come to an end where you go okay well that
was worth my time and uh and so outlining is very important it's not i've you know again if you come
up with a better idea while you're writing okay if but you have to know that it is a better idea
you can't think oh well that didn't pay off if it doesn't work don't do it it's better to follow an
outline that works rather than experiment but um but the more you write the stronger you get
at this stuff you know and um you just learn you learn your craft and craft is structure craft is
outlining because um you know that's just how it works you know it's I you know it's like I
i write short outlines I don't I don't I would never write like a 30 or 40 page outline
but like the most I would do for an outline would be maybe
seven pages for an hour script um and with novels I i'll jot notes I don't rigorously
outline for novels but I know the structure I know where the story goes and I know who does what um
but but there are writers who don't outline who are still very very good and succeed
but if you're just starting out I think outlining is a really important tool I would urge everyone
to utilize it but but at the end of the day it's getting to the end of the story
and however you got there if it works it doesn't really matter how you got there
outlines are just a tool how would you teach story structure
to someone who needs help I would say watch movies that you feel have a satisfactory ending and
break write down the write down the scenes write down what happens write down how the characters
move through it and what the story does and see why that satisfies why that works you know years
ago I was hired to do a pilot where one of the characters was a gangster the sort of a bad guy
at the beginning but then he helps these two kids and he turns out to be a good guy and I thought
well how how did they do that trick how did like how do you do a trick where you like somebody
even though they're a bad guy at the beginning and so I watched casablanca and I saw that everything
bogart says is cynical but everything he does is moral is ethical and his actions
are speaking louder than his words it was a very simple trick and a very subtle one but it worked
like gangbusters it was terrific and so that once I knew to do that that told me where I could go
and so you you know there's thousands of tv shows and movies don't don't try and invent
stuff from whole cloth study structures that worked a structure is like a machine it's like
you know um you don't I don't I always say don't steal plots but study structure um because there's
stuff that works and stuff that doesn't work and the more you deviate from standard structure
the better the writing has to be so for instance Quentin Tarantino can use very unusual structures
but the writing has to really be solid um and so that's just the way the way that works.
Film Courage: How do you write a scene?
Marc: You try to have every scene have an emotional point
okay uh you you try to avoid scenes that are just exposition that's a trap that people fall into
where everyone's talking just to explain twists in terms of the story and they're boring scenes
come from character who's who needs what who wants what who's longing for what who's hiding
what they're really feeling who's not seeing what's going on in their heart or in their
head you find the juice of the scene usually it's conflict but not always you find something
I mean usually the way it works with an audience is the structure is familiar the details of the
story are fresh so in other words like if you go to a certain movie you know okay this is
most likely going to have a happy ending okay but what the characters say how they
get there that's where you can surprise an audience and that's where you can engage them
um and so so it might be a sort a story from your life or someone you know or something you read
or you know any number of things I mean everything I write is a synthesis a combination of everything
and anything um for instance I knew I wanted to do a scene in space command that was in Spanish
because one of our actors was was from Venezuela and he's very charming and very very good
victor man so and so when I did the bonus episode during the pandemic
I said okay i'm going to write a scene where he's calling his estranged father
to invite him to his wedding and and so I wrote the scene in english and
I originally wrote the role of the father to be Guillermo del Toro I reached out to Guillermo and
he wasn't available at that point for various personal reasons but Guillermo had had certain
elements from his childhood that actually wove into that that scene and and it was about the son
introducing his fiancee to the father and trying to get the father to come to mars in that case
to attend the wedding and ultimately they want the father to move in with them and it's about
a father's disappointment in his son's choices and then finally coming to accept who his son is and
see the commonality between the two of them and it's a lovely scene and I was really glad to do
it in Spanish because I love the idea of having different languages in space command for instance
Mira Furlin and the actress who play her daughter speak cerebral Croatian uh in when they talk to
each other and uh but it's a great scene with the father and the son and the fiance because
you stop realizing it's in spanish you're so engaged in the people and reading the subtitles
and so and I had victor translated into spanish and every now and then he'd say well it can't be
this exact thing but this will make sense uh culturally and I said sure fine great and uh
but I really love that scene because there's an emotional truth in it and uh you know so that's
that's great every now and then i'll write a scene that's just for the gosh g whiz you know
rocket ship taking off or you know something like that you know battle on titan or whatever
it's very funny because we were shooting the battle on titan where these synthetic humans
they're soldiers they're gunning down these these freedom fighters who are human and uh
one of the extras didn't show up so I said well i'll put on a spacesuit I said but you have to
you have to disintegrate me so i'm in this space when I get hit by a laser blast and disintegrate
with a scream and it was great fun great fun yeah bourbon was great at that too what is it sonata
the the piano player or daughter they come she's right and then or no no sorry the piano player
mother and then the yes the the social worker daughter and and you know it it's
you don't need subtitles to you know the tension and the emotion well now we have thanks to netflix
we know that foreign tv shows can be successful here and the people will read subtitles and that's
fabulous i'm i'm i'm so glad of that I well I don't mind me reading subtitles I absolutely
love foreign films but yeah it helps to read so yeah it does yeah this comes in handy
and not just ramona cleary books yeah nothing against them yeah there you go I like those um
we've heard that and you said this the other day on your livestream solicitors
we've heard that you say you don't come up with storylines unless there's a chance to utilize them
why is that well I might come up with an idea but the ones that I really
dig in on and write the script um i'm i'm writing that to shoot it i'm writing it to make it i'm not
i'm not you know writing it's not an exercise I never write just for like the
I was gonna say the fun of it I do write for the fun of it but I don't write something that's just
gonna be in a drawer that's that's purposeless um and and and also my heroes when I was a kid like
rod sterling like ray bradbury they wrote books and tv shows and movies they could do all three
and so i've always throughout my career written books tv is my main form tv is my main art form
and my art form of choice but i've always written books i've always you know written
screenplays as well and so uh and the books were you know i'm really proud of the books i've done
you know and the twilight zone companion the book with guillermo green lighting yourself the magic
time trilogy of novels they've all i'm really glad I got to do them they were uh well worth doing
well what if someone says well I don't i'm not there yet I don't have anyone to
to pitch to or I haven't assembled my team or we can crowdfund and make this
um what's your advice to that I mean so they should they still be writing just to utilize them
not just to sit in a drawer you have to learn your your craft you know you have to know how
to tell a story and you need to get feedback so that you know if something works or doesn't work
but on the other hand if you're shooting you learn very quickly when you're shooting
if something works because if the actors can't deliver it or you know I i really encourage people
to shoot what they've written at least to see how it works when actors are saying it I mean you you
get a wealth of knowledge from making it because the script again is this and it's is such a quiet
object you know whereas if if you make a short or a feature that can start getting attention
that can start get and and if it doesn't work you say oh those characters don't sound realistic I
have to work harder on my dialogue or or um whoa this this scene was really boring there was really
nothing happening there you know it's things will become incredibly clear when you shoot them
and that's again where television is such a great learning ground because when everything you write
gets made you very quickly learn what an actor can say and what they can't and uh and you know you
you it's a very fast learning curve and i'm very grateful for that and but I would say to anyone
be bold don't be you know I was gonna say don't be afraid you can be afraid but there's
a there's a saying that I have in my wallet which is the bolder I am the better things go
and that's so true you know if you if you fall on your face you'll get up again you know I people
say well life is like a river and it takes you where you're meant to go I say I say to people
if you fell in a real river you wouldn't say that you'd swim like hell for the shore you know it's
like you know don't don't just let let things carry you along figure out what you want and and
but really go for it you know it's like failure is not a terrible thing they don't take you off to
writer's jail you know it's they if you fail get better it's a process and and and also by the way
uh you know sometimes what you write some people will like it some people won't but if
they really like it if you polarize people where some people really love it and some people really
hate it that's not bad I mean look at the work of david lynch you know you don't have to please
everyone you just have to please someone and the first person you have to please is yourself
and the way you please yourself is by saying I got that right that came out well that was that
was great and um you know so so the lovely thing is that it used to be that you had to come here
to Hollywood to make dreams come true and now you can make them come true anywhere if you're
in east mckeesport Pennsylvania or or Kuala Lumpur you can still we've all got phones we've all got
video cameras we've all got the internet it's make use of what's at hand you're in the 21st
century for god's sake you know you thank god but don't waste the opportunity you could make it you
could make a short film this week you know don't wait don't wait act Ray Bradbury had a wonderful
sign over his typewriter that I now have over my computer that says don't think act and that's so
true it's what it actually is don't think do and it's like yeah right on yes absolutely
what was the most polarizing David Lynch work while at heart doom probably okay well no but
blue velvet I mean I mean his I mean one of my favorite David lynch races uh Elaine and I went to
see Mulholland Drive and at the end of that it was a Mulholland Drive it's whichever one he directed
I think and at the end of the movie you know the screen goes to black and there's that moment
where everyone in the audience is just sitting in the darkness before the house lights come up
and someone yelled out what the guacamole was that and so but I understood what the story was
so in the lobby I started telling I was surrounded by a crowd of people from the from the audience
telling them what the movie had been about what it was because they had totally
lost they had no comprehension and then they said okay now we get it but
but again it's fine because the thing about David Lynch is he's following his aesthetic purpose
he is telling stories he wants to tell that only he can tell great you know great.
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