Is the clock running out on tick tock?
It could be for federal government
employees after Congress included
a ban on the app on all U.S.
government devices.
And the latest spending bill
joining a wave of U.S.
governors who have done the same
for their state employees.
They're worried about the popular apps
ties to the Chinese government.
Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle
concerned. Listen
Tick tock is a enormous threat.
This company should be banned.
I don't know why they're allowed
to operate in the United States.
I think it gives
the Chinese Communist Party
an opportunity to spy on all of us.
Today, the company Tick
Tock said it will roll down
a new feature.
To add more context
about how the app recommends
videos, users
will be able to click on an icon
and see if a video was recommended
based on data
such as your past links
or the region you live in.
Joining us now
to discuss
Michael Beckerman, TikTok's
head of public policy
Michael, thanks so much for being here.
We really appreciate it. First of all.
What's your response
to this bipartisan
push to
to ban TikTok,
especially on government devices?
Look, I mean, obviously,
this is a very political approach,
doesn't have any real impact
on national security.
But the concerns they're raising
are ones that we think are solvable.
And we have a
really comprehensive solution.
And so the better question is
maybe for the administration on enacting
a security deal
that that actually safeguards
information for all Americans,
a security deal with TikTok
or with or with the Chinese government.
With tick tock.
Tick tock is not available in China.
You know,
we think a lot of the concerns are
maybe overblown,
but we do think that
these problems can be solved.
We have a comprehensive solution
that we've been working on
for almost two years now
with the Biden administration.
And we're ready to implement it.
And I think that's
probably the best place
to start this conversation.
So, well,
the place that a lot of these
national security
experts and members of Congress
started is with China's
national intelligence law from 2017
as you know which states quote
any organization or citizen
shall support, assist and cooperate
with state intelligence work
in accordance
with the law
and maintain the secrecy
of all knowledge of state intelligence
work, unquote,
which a lot of national security
experts and members of Congress interpret
this as saying that this law compels
any private company in China
to cooperate
with Chinese national intelligence
any way they want.
Which means that you sitting here right
now, although I'm
sure you wish you could.
You cannot guarantee
that the Chinese government
can't get access to the tick
tock user database.
That's that's
what people are worried about.
Well well, no
company can guarantee that
a state actor
can't get access to the company.
But I mean, legally, not through
hacking legally. Sure.
But like one thing, like tick
tock is not available in China.
We have many safeguards in place.
But again, if that's the concern,
there are many companies
that this would apply to.
But the unique thing for us
is that we do have a solution
that's ready to be deployed
that we've already proactively worked on
with companies like Oracle
to safeguard Americans user data.
And we're ready to do it
as soon as
as soon as the administration
is ready to act.
But what's the workable solution?
How how do you solve it?
I mean,
we had the top Republican commissioner
at the Federal Communications
Commission, Brendan Carr,
on the lead last week.
I want you to get your reaction
to what he told us
about the Chinese government and
access to user data
underneath of it.
It operates
as a sophisticated surveillance towards
pulling everything from search
and browsing
history, keystroke patterns,
potentially biometrics,
including face prints and voice prints.
And for years we were told, don't worry,
none of this is stored in China.
But there is some internal communication
from TikTok
leaked over the summer
that showed, quote,
everything is seen back in China.
So it's a real concern.
Well, I mean,
I appreciate
I know
Brendan Carr has been really interested
in this issue for a while.
But as you know, he's
not on a government agency
of jurisdiction over this
and he's not an expert.
And in fact,
all the things that he rattled off
are all false about information
that we collect
But the one thing that is accurate is
we do store data here in the U.S.
and we're moving things
over to the Oracle cloud.
And if this is a concern
that people have,
we have a solution
that we're ready to implement
to ensure that Americans
user data is protected. What about that?
The document, the internal communication
from TikTok
that leaked over the summer that showed
everything is seen back in China
That's just not that's just not accurate.
I mean, we have a US based security team.
We're working with Oracle.
We're working with
actual security agencies
within the government.
I think there's a lot of misinformation
out there
and a lot of what
the commissioner was saying
is just not accurate.
So there was a German report
in March of this year
showing that TikTok
censored references
to concentration camps
shadow
banning, in their view, words
such as Auschwitz or national socialism.
And the fear is the US State Department
obviously has accused China of genocide,
holding up to 2 million ethnic weavers
and other ethnic minorities in
detention camps,
detention camps, concentration camps
in the Xinjiang province.
And that that's what TikTok
was censoring,
not necessarily references to the German
concentration camps.
First of all, do you do you acknowledge
that the Chinese government
has these figures and others
in concentrated concentration camps?
Well,
guess that's something that I focus on.
But I can tell you that for content,
moderation is done
from the United States.
We do not
censor content
on behalf of any government
you can just go on the app and look
and there's
there's been
there's been plenty of content.
What do you make of this on
something you focus on?
You work for
a Chinese government company.
And the Chinese are accused
of concentration camps
and ethnic genocide.
You can you can look
you can find all of this content
on TikTok.
But why won't you
why won't you acknowledge that?
I mean, I can
I'm just not I'm just not an expert on
what's happening in China.
So it's not an area that I'm focusing on.
But you can look on the app
and you'll find plenty of content
about that as well.
It's not something that we censor.
It's not something that we draw back.
All of that.
Those decisions are made
from the United States.
Well, a viewer might see this and think,
this guy won't even acknowledge
that the Chinese are committing
genocide against their own people.
Why?
You know,
they would probably interpret
that to be like,
you're afraid of being fired
if you acknowledge that that and that's.
Jake, that's not that's not
that's not accurate and that's not fair.
Well, I'm just.
Do you disagree
that that's what people are
how people are going to interpret it?
I mean, that's all I can see, how that's
you're interpreting it.
Look, I think there are many human
rights violations
that are happening in China
and around the world.
I think these are very important.
I mean, I'm
not here to be
the expert on UN human
rights violations around the world.
But if you want to look up of that,
you can go to tick tock
and you can look it up
and you can see much information
about that as you want.
That's not something that's censored.
By the app.
I was
I was responding to your question
about whether or not
that content is censored on TikTok.
It certainly is not.
So if a U.S.
user were to make a video
summarizing the 2022 U.N.
report,
which shows that
China may have committed crimes
against humanity in Xinjiang province,
they would be able to see it.
It wouldn't be banned.
There wouldn't be absolutely go for it.
I mean, that does not violate
our content guidelines.
I can't tell you
if you did a video of that, Jake,
that would go viral.
That's something
people would be interested in,
but that doesn't violate
our guidelines at all.
So there was a 60 minutes report
that I'm sure you saw that showed
American kids on TikTok, and
they were seeing images of self-harm
and eating disorders, encouraging,
encouraging
psychological distress for these kids.
And then there's
the Chinese version of TikTok,
which not it's not called TikTok.
It's something else.
And it was educational
and there were automatic time limits.
And somebody,
a parent might see that
and think the Chinese government
is trying to destroy our kids from within
the I'm just saying.
Don't
you think that that's the impression?
I think that's one
that's a mischaracterization.
Like as a parent as well.
We we do so much of
we were talking during the break
about parental tools
that we have here in the U.S.,
but it's kind of a little bit
of a curious argument.
The same people that are complaining
about employees in China
and acts from China,
all these things are also suggesting
that here in the U.S.,
we should apply Chinese style
media rules.
We have freedom of speech,
other things here in the United States,
it's a little bit different.
But look, on on content for kids
and for younger people in the app
is something
that we take incredibly seriously.
All of those teams are based
here in the United States
with tools for parents
who should have conversations
with their teens. About screen time.
But content that's dangerous like that.
I don't think
that's a fair characterization
of what people
are actually seeing on the app.
You think that TikTok's
getting a really bad rap
and that a lot of people that are
that are just projecting their concerns
about the Chinese government
onto, in your view, a harmless app?
Is that fair criticism?
I mean,
we take all the concerns seriously.
Our goal is to earn trust.
We're living in an era
now where there are legitimate concerns
with all apps,
and there should be about
what data is collected
about safety, security.
We take those really, really seriously.
We've been leaning into transparency.
We've been leaning into safety.
And the reason
that we've been so proactive,
working with the government on a solution
for the security concerns
is we want to clear the air about that.
We want to raise
no doubt that the app is safe and secure.
So, Michael Beckerman, I have to go
because we're out of time,
but I hope you'll come back
because there are a lot of concerns and
I think it's only fair
that you guys get to address them.
As I told you,
I have deleted the app,
but I haven't force my kids to
and the
only reason I deleted this
because national security expert
said you need to get that off.
I hope to convince you, get you back.
All right.
Michael Beckerman,
I appreciate you coming in,
taking the questions that's important to.