SECURITIES CLEARANCES. OBVIOUSLY BE SECURED AND TURNED
OVER.
OVER. KIMMING
KIMMING CONSUMING SAYS IT WOULD BE THE
LAST TIME THE REQUEST IS
VOLUNTARY. CHIEF COUNSEL
OF THE HOUSE INTEL COMMITTEE,
KNOWS A LOT ABOUT HOW THE
DISPUTES WORK AND ALSO ABOUT THE
SECURITY CLEARANCES.
SECURITY CLEARANCES. ALL RIGHT.
ALL RIGHT. JUST LIKE YOUR FORMER BOSS, WAY
TOO MANY TITLES FOR YOU.
YOU AND PANETTA.
LET’S START WITH THESE MEMOS.
THE FACT THAT HE MEMORIALIZED
IT, HE SAYS HE SENT AN INTERNAL
MEMO.
MEMO. WHO WOULD IT LIKELY BE SEPTEMBER
TO?
TO? AND YOU WORKED QUITE CLOSELY
WITH JOHN KELLY.
>> AND FIRST OF ALL, I WORKED
TWO SIDES ALONG SIDE GENERAL
KELLY WHEN HE WAS IN THE
PENTAGON.
PENTAGON. 42 YEARS IN THE MARINE CORPS.
FIRST IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE
HIS LOYALTY IS TO THE
INSTITUTIONS OF GOVERNMENT AND I
CAN SEE JOHN WRITING A MEMO
SAYING THIS WAS THE DECISION BY
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES AND IT HAS TO BE CARRIED
OUT.
OUT. AND HE DID IT FOR TWO REASONS.
ONE TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS
CLARITY.
CLARITY. REMEMBER, HE WAS BROUGHT INTO
PUT ORDER ON THE CHAOS.
BUT ALSO I THINK FOR POSTERITY
SO IT WOULD BE CLEAR NAT
PRESIDENT WAS OVERRIDING THE
RECOMMENDATION OF THE SECURITY
PROFESSIONALS.
PROFESSIONALS. THE MEMO WOULD PROBABLY GO
INTERNALLY TO THE PERSONNEL TEAM
AT THE WHITE HOUSE RESPONSIBLE
FOR GRANTING TSE CLEARANCES.
BUT IT COULD ALSO HAVE GONE TO
THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER.
AND IT COULD HAVE GONE OUTSIDE
OF THE WHITE HOUSE TO THE OFFICE
OF THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL
INTELLIGENCE, MAYBE TO THE FBI
AND OFFICE OF PERSONNEL
MANAGEMENT.
MANAGEMENT. SO IF YOU ARE ON A FOIA TEAM OR
WATCHDOG NGO AND YOU WANT TO PUT
TOGETHER A FOIA REQUEST FOR
THIS, I’D PROBABLY HIT ALL
THOSE.
THOSE. >> SO ODNI, FBI, CIA, OFFICE OF
PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT.
PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT. LET’S TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF
EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE.
EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE. IF THESE MEMOS ARE INDEED
PROBLEMATIC AND THINGS THAT THE
PRESIDENT DOESN’T WANT IN THERE,
BECAUSE FRANKLY HE IS ABIDING BY
THE LAW.
THE LAW. YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE LAW, BUT HE
HAS THIS POWER.
WE CAN HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT
WHETHER HE IS AN BUTSZING THAT
POWER, BUT HEED HAD THE POWER TO
DO THIS.
DO THIS. IF HE SCREAMS EXECUTIVE
PRIVILEGE, HOW STRONG IS THE
CASE?
CASE? >> THERE ARE TWO BASES FROM
WITHHOLDING THE DOCUMENTS,
EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE AND IT
CONTAIN CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.
THE SECOND ONE IS REALLY NOT A
BASIS TO WITHHOLD IT FROM
CONGRESS BECAUSE OF COURSE
CONGRESS REVIEWS CLASSIFIED
PRIVILEGE.
PRIVILEGE. BUT EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE IS
TRICKIER.
TRICKIER. THERE ARE FEW INSTANCES IN WHICH
CONGRESS HAS GOTTEN HANDS ON
THINGS WHERE THE WHITE HOUSE
DIGS IN ON THAT.
>> HELP ME OUT WITH THE VARIOUS
SECURITY LEVELS.
SECURITY LEVELS. JARED KUSHNER WAS GETTING A MID
LEVEL SECURITY CLEARANCE, NOT
THE TOP SECRET.
EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE.
>> BASICALLY THE LEVELS ARE
CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET, TOP SECRET
AND THE TOP LEVEL IS SCI.
JARED KUSHNER HAD INTERIM TOP
SECRET CLEARANCE FOR A LONG
TIME.
TIME. THE PRESIDENT ORDERED KELLY GIVE
HIM A PERMANENT TOP SECRET
CLEARANCE AND THAT’S WHAT HE
ENJOYS TO THIS DAY.
BUT WHAT HE NEVER GOT BECAUSE
THE CIA ULTIMATELY ADJUDICATES
THE SCI LEVEL, CIA SAID NO,
WE’RE NOT GIVING TO HIM.
SO EVEN TO THIS DAY AS HE GOES
AROUND THE MIDDLE EAST AND THE
KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA, HE DOES
NOT HAVE ACCESS TO INTELLIGENCE,
AND HE DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO
THE SAME INFORMATION THAT OTHERS
IN OUR GOVERNMENT HAVE.
I THINK THAT IS A HUGE
DISADVANTAGE.
DISADVANTAGE. >> IT IS INTERESTING YOU’RE
SAYING THAT THE TOP SLOT, THE
PRESIDENT CAN’T ORDER THE CIA TO
GIVE HIM THAT CLEARANCE AS WELL?
>> I THINK THAT HE CAN, BUT HE
ACCORDING TO THE REPORTING DID
NOT.
NOT. AND I THINK THAT THE BIG MYSTERY
HERE IS WHAT WAS IN JARED
KUSHNER’S BACKGROUND
KUSHNER’S BACKGROUND INVESTIGATION THAT CAUSED THE
PROFESSIONALS AT THE FOOIN AND
ELSE
ELSE H. FBI AND ELSEWHERE TO SAY NO,
HE SHOULD NOT BE ENTITLED TO
CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.
CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. AND ONCE THE PRESIDENT WAS GOING
DOWN THAT ROAD, WHY DID THE CIA
DIG IN SO HARD.
AND BY THE WAY, CREDIT GOES TO
MICHAEL POMPEO AT THE TIME WHO
WAS DIRECTOR OF THE CIA FOR
HOLDING FIRM ON THAT DECISION.
THAT WAS PROBABLY A VERY SPARKY
CONVERSATION.
CONVERSATION. >> SPECULATION IS THAT IT IS
FINANCIAL.
FINANCIAL. ON THESE SECURITY CLEARANCE
INVESTIGATIONS IS USUALLY
FINANCES THE STICKING POINT WHEN
SOMEBODY RUNS INTO A PROBLEM?
>> IT DEPENDS.
PEOPLE WHO HAVE INTERNATIONAL
AND GLOBAL BITS I THINK IT IS
EXPECTED THAT THEY HAVE A LOT OF
FOREIGN FINANCING, A LOT OF
FOREIGN CAPITAL IN THEIR CAP
TABLES, IF THEY ARE DOING REAL
ESTATE DEALS, THAT TO ME DIDN’T
STRIKE ME AS PER SES BASIS.
I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH
CANDOR, IF HE IS NOT TRUTHFUL ON
THE FORMS.
THE FORMS. AND SECOND IF THERE IS SOMETHING
FROM AN ADVERSARY NATION WHERE
THEY HAVE DEROGATORY INFORMATION
OR SOME REASON TO HAVE SOME
CONTROL OVER THE INDIVIDUAL,
THAT SOMEHOW THE GOVERNMENT
DOESN’T KNOW ABOUT.
AND I’M SPECULATING, BUT IT WILL
NOT BE A GARDEN VARIETY
FINANCIAL ENTANGLEMENT.
FINANCIAL ENTANGLEMENT. AND I THINK THAT IT IS A VERY
HIGH BAR FOR THE BUREAUCRACY TO
DENY THE PRESIDENT’S HAND PICKED
PERSON.
PERSON. PARTICULARLY A FAMILY MEMBER.
I MEAN, IT IS ALMOST LIKE --
>> HOW STUNNING IS THIS THAT THE
PRESIDENT HASN’T BEEN ABLE TO
GET THE CIA TO BACK DOWN?
>> FAIRLY UNUSUAL.
I MEAN, A DIRECTOR OF AN AGENCY,
A PRESIDENT, IF THERE IS SOMEONE
ON THEIR TEAM, SOMEONE CLOSE TO
THEM, SOMEONE WHO IS IZ VS ADVIS
CIA AND INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY
WANTS THE PRESIDENT TO HAVE THE
BENEFIT OF THE ADVISERS THAT
THEY CHOOSE.
THEY CHOOSE. IF THEY ARE SO WORRIED THAT THAT
PERSON CANNOT BE TRUSTED WITH
THIS INFORMATION, IT WILL BE
SOMETHING VERY, VERY BIG.
>> I DON’T MEAN TO BE SORT OF --
THERE IS PART OF ME THAT THINKS
WHAT DOES IT MATTER, THE
PRESIDENT CAN GIVE HIM ANY BIT
OF INFORMATION THAT HE WANTS TO
GIVE HIM BECAUSE HE CAN
DECLASSIFY ITEM BY ITEM AS WELL.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. NOW LOOK --
>> SO IF HE IS A SECURITY RISK,
HE IS A SECURITY RISK REGARDLESS
OF WHETHER YOU GIVE HIM THE
CLEARANCE OR NOT.
>> THAT’S RIGHT.
AND THERE HAS TO BE CLARITY IN
THE SYSTEM.
THE SYSTEM. YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHICH MEETINGS
THAT HE CAN GO INTO.
HE IS WORKING IN THE WEST WING
AND HE CAN’T SEE THE PDB.
>> BUT EVERY DAY COULD THE
PRESIDENT SAY HE IS CLEARED TO
READ THE PDB?
>> I THINK CONSTITUTIONALLY HE
CAN.
CAN. AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, IT WOULD
CAUSE SO MUCH CONFUSION IN THE
SYSTEM.
SYSTEM. BUT WHAT IS EVEN MORE CONCERNING
IS THAT HE IS OUT THERE
NEGOTIATING MIDDLE EAST PEACE.
HE WILL WALK INTO A MEETING WITH
MBS AND HE WON’T BE ABLE TO HEAR
GINA HASPEL’S REPORT ABOUT WHAT
HAPPENED WITH THE SAUDIS.
>> WELL, THAT IS A GOOD POINT TO
END IT ON.