>> ALL RIGHT.
AS I MENTIONED, WE ARE OF
COURSE FOLLOWING THE
DEVELOPMENTS OF A REPORTED
RUSSIAN ATTACK ON THE
ZAPORIZHZHIA NUCLEAR POWER
PLANT IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE.
THAT'S THE PLANT THERE.
YOU CAN SEE IT ON THE MAP THERE
AND THE SOUTHEASTERN CORNER OF
THE COUNTRY.
IT'S NOT TERRIBLY FAR FROM THE
SO-CALLED BREAKAWAY PROVINCES,
DONETSK AND LUHANSK, THAT
VLADIMIR PUTIN FIRST USED AS
HIS EXCUSE FOR INVADING
UKRAINE.
NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT, CAL
PERRY, JOINS US LIVE FROM LVIV
IN UKRAINE WITH THE LATEST.
CAL, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US?
>> SO, ABOUT 24 HOURS AGO, OUR
VIEWERS REMEMBER CIVILIANS
STOPPING TWO TANKS AND TWO
ARMED PERSONNEL CARRIERS.
THIS IS IN THE TOWN OF AND HOLD
OUR, AND THOSE ARE RUSSIAN
TROOPS MOVING ON THOSE POWER
PLANT.
THIS IS THE LARGEST NUCLEAR
POWER PLANT IN EUROPE.
IT'S SUPPLIES A QUARTER OF THE
POWER HERE IN THE CITY OF
UKRAINE.
BUT SORRY, IN THE COUNTRY OF
UKRAINE.
IN THE LAST 24 HOURS, THE
SITUATION DISINTEGRATED.
IT STARTED AS A SMALL ARMS FIRE
FIGHT, THAT, ACCORDING TO THE
NATIONAL GUARD HERE, AND HAS IN
THE LAST FEW HOURS BECOME A
FULL FLEDGED FIREFIGHT.
ACCORDING TO THE GOVERNMENT
HERE, THE RUSSIANS NOT ONLY ARE
TARGETING THE PLANT, BUT A FIRE
HAS BROKEN OUT INSIDE THIS
NUCLEAR POWER PLANT.
THE SITUATION ESCALATED.
FIRST, THE MAYOR SOUNDED THE
ALARM.
THEN, WE HAD FROM THE UKRAINIAN
MILITARY, JUST IN THE PAST FEW
MINUTES, FROM THE MINISTRY OF
FOREIGN AFFAIRS, WRITING, QUOTE,
THE RUSSIAN ARMY IS FIGHTS
FIRING FROM ALL SIDES OF THE
ZAPORIZHZHIA NUCLEAR POWER
POINT, THE LARGEST POWER PLANT
IN EUROPE.
WHERE HAS BROKEN OUT.
AND HE WRITES, HIS WORDS, IF IT
BLOWS UP, IT WILL BE TEN TIMES
LARGER THAN CHERNOBYL.
RUSSIANS MUST MEET LEAST THE
FIRE, AND ALLOW FOR THIS
ESTABLISHED A SECURITY ZONE.
I KNOW WHERE THAT WEEK IS
COMING FROM BECAUSE THIS,
ACCORDING TO REUTERS, AND I
JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ON THE
SOURCING, THIS IS FROM REUTERS.
I AM 600 MILES FROM THE PLANT.
BUT, FIVE ARTISTS CANNOT START
EXTINGUISHING THE FIRE AT THE
NUCLEAR POWER PLANT, THEY'RE
BEING FIRED UPON AT POINT BLANK
RANGE.
EXCUSE ME.
THERE'S ALREADY A HIT ON THE
FIRST POWER UNIT.
THIS WAS, IN MANY WAYS, AND
MILITARY TARGET.
IT WAS HAPPENING IN THE NORTH
OF THE COUNTRY.
THE RUSSIANS ARE CHOKING THESE
VILLAGES, THESE TOWNS.
THEY'RE INDISCRIMINATELY
SHELLING SHELLING THEM, AND
THEY'RE HITTING THE LOCAL POWER
GREATS.
WITH THIS POWER PLANT
CONTROLLING A QUARTER OF THE
POWER SUPPLY OF THE COUNTRY,
YOU CAN SEE WHY THE RUSSIANS
WILL WANT TO TAKE IT.
BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE
LAST FEW HOURS IS CERTAINLY
ALARMING.
THE UKRAINE GOVERNMENT IS
TRYING TO RAISE THE ALARM TO
THE WORLD THAT NOT ONLY IS
THEIR FIRE AT THE PLANT, BUT
THERE IS THIS ONGOING FIGHTING
IN WHICH THEY CANNOT SEEM TO
PUSH THE RUSSIANS BACK ANY
LONGER, AND THE SITUATION AS
THEY WOULD SAY, IS REALLY
ALARMING AND OUT OF CONTROL,
CHRIS.
>> ALL RIGHT, CAL PERRY, YOU'VE
BEEN DOING GREAT REPORTING
THERE.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US IN THE
LAST SECOND.
PLEASE STAY SAFE THERE.
WE APPRECIATE IT.
I'M JOINED ONCE AGAIN BY JOHN
WOLF.
WE JUST HAD HIM THIS WEEK.
HE SERVED AS SENIOR DIRECTOR
FOR NONPROLIFERATION AND ARMS
CONTROL AT THE NATIONAL
SECURITY COUNCIL.
AND HE'S CURRENTLY A SPECIAL
ADVISER TO GLOBAL ZERO, AND
INTERNATIONAL MOVEMENT FOR THE
ELIMINATION OF ALL NUCLEAR
WEAPONS, AND HE JOINS ME NOW.
JOHN, YOU AND OTHER NUCLEAR
EXPERTS, AND WATCHING LIFE,
WE'LL TIME RESPONSES TO THIS
ABOUT HOW FREAK-OUT SHOULD WE
BE?
WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT HOW
DANGEROUS IS?
HOW SHOULD WE THINK ABOUT THIS?
>> SO, WHEN I JUST TWEETED OUT
WHEN I HEARD ABOUT THIS STORY
WAS THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A DEEP
BREATH.
I KNOW THERE IS AN INSTINCT TO
JUMP TO, IS THIS CHERNOBYL HOW
MUCH ENDANGER ARE WE, BUT WE DO
KNOW A LITTLE BIT THERE ARE
LIVE FIELDS FROM THE REACTOR
THAT ARE ACTUALLY SHOWING THE
RADIATION LEVELS IN THE AREA.
THEY'RE NOT INCREASING.
THE VIDEO APPEARS TO HAVE FIRE
INSIDE ONE OF THE BUILDINGS.
WHICH WE CAN SEE IS THAT THE
CONTAINMENT BUILDING ITSELF
REMAINS ATTACHED, AND IT'S
IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT THIS IS
A TOTALLY DIFFERENT DESIGN AND
THE REACTORS AT YOUR NOBLE.
IT IS DESIGNED SO THAT IF IT
SHUTS DOWN, AND HAS NO POWER,
IT DOESN'T BURST INTO FLAMES
AND CAN BE SAFE.
AND ACTUALLY HAS A CEMENT
CONTAINMENT SYSTEM.
SO WHILE WE OBVIOUSLY ARE
CONCERNED ABOUT ANYTIME WE SEE
FIRE IN NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS,
GOD FORBID, ARMS FIRE OR
SHELLING IN NUCLEAR POWER PLANT,
WE GET WORRIED.
BUT RIGHT NOW, IT DOESN'T SEEM
TO BE A DISASTER IN THE MAKING,
BUT IT'S A HORRIFIC SITUATION,
AND OF COURSE, IT IS ALL OF THE
FEED OF RUSSIAN INVASION.
AND THEY HAVE A MORAL NATIONAL
AND LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY TO
SEIZE OPERATIONS AROUND THE
PLANT, AND LET UKRAINIAN
AUTHORITIES ACCESS, PUT OUT THE
FIRE, AND ACCEPT INTERNATIONAL
SUPPORT, WHICH IS NOW ON OFFER
TO GO AND HELP AND MAKE SURE
THAT THIS DOESN'T BECOME A
DISASTER.
>> YEAH, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE
LAWS OF WAR ARE SO OFTEN
HONORED IN THE BREACH WHEN
WE'VE SEEN WHAT APPEARS TO BE
INDISCRIMINATE TARGETING OF
CIVILIANS IN CONTRAVENTION TO
THE LAWS OF WAR.
JUST IN THE FIRST WEEK OF THIS.
BUT THERE ARE, THERE ARE, THERE
IS INTERNATIONAL LAW AROUND
NUCLEAR SITES AND WAR, RIGHT?
THERE IS AN OBLIGATION HERE FOR
OBVIOUS REASONS TO ALLOW THIS,
THE SAFETY ISSUES TO BE
ADDRESSED FIRST AND FOREMOST.
>> THERE ARE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS
HERE, BUT THERE IS ALSO JUST
NATIONAL SELF INTEREST.
THE WINDS ARE BLOWING FROM WEST
TO EAST.
IF THERE IS, GOD FORBID, A
RELEASE OF RADIATION, IT'S
GOING TO BLOW INTO RUSSIA.
SO, YOU KNOW, NOT THAT VLADIMIR
PUTIN CARES ABOUT THE RUSSIAN
PEOPLE, BUT IF HE HAS ANY, YOU
KNOW, A SHRED OF MORALITY LEFT
IN HIM, AND HE'S WORRIED ABOUT
WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO HIM
PERSONALLY, BEING HELD
RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT IS
HAPPENING INSIDE UKRAINE, AT
THE VERY LEAST, THEY NEED TO
STOP OPERATIONS AROUND THIS
PLANT.
IT IS JUST A POINT IN ANY LEVEL
THAT A COUNTRY THAT'S ALREADY
SUFFERED THE CHERNOBYL DISASTER,
THAT'S ALREADY BEING INFLICTED
WITH THIS INVASION, IS NOW
GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH
THIS.
AND I THINK YOU'RE GONNA HEAR
CALLS IMMEDIATELY TOMORROW FROM
PEOPLE SAYING, WELL, WE HAVE TO
HAVE A NO FLY ZONE AROUND THIS
AREA, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GET
IN.
THIS IS WHY WE ARE CONCERNED
ABOUT ANY CONFLICT INSIDE
EUROPE, ABOUT ANY CONFLICT WITH
RUSSIA AND THE UNITED STATES.
THINGS CAN GET OUT OF CONTROL
QUICKLY.
AND WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS
ABOUT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TODAY,
TOMORROW, UNTIL WE CAN GET THIS
CONFLICT TO END.
>> I WANT TO JUST STRESS THAT
THING.
HE SAID AT THE BEGINNING, IN
CASE IT WENT BY PEOPLE, BECAUSE
YOU GAVE US A LOT OF
INFORMATSTILL
EXISTS.
IT WAS CITED IN UKRAINE, WHICH
WAS THEN PART OF THE SOVIET
UNION.
THIS IS A DIFFERENT PLAN TO
DESIGN.
THERE WAS A SPECIFIC KIND OF
DEFECTIVE NATURE TO THE PLAN TO
SIGN THERE.
BORN IN SOME WAYS OF COST
CUTTING, THAT WAS PART OF THE
LONG CHAIN OF CAUSATION THAT
GAVE THE WORLD THAT HORRIBLE
NUCLEAR DISASTER.
JUST TO REITERATE, THIS IS NOT
THAT DESIGN, AND THE FAILS.
WE DON'T HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE
ENGINEERING AND FEEL SAFE IN
PLACE ARE WHAT THEY SHOULD BE
IN FAR SUPERIOR THAN CHERNOBYL.
>> IT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT,
CHRIS.
AND WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING FOR
IS, ONE, IS THERE ANY DAMAGE TO
THE PLANT ITSELF, THE ACTUAL
NUCLEAR COMPONENT TO THE PLANT.
IF NOT, THEN THERE IS NO
IMMEDIATE CAUSE FOR CONCERN.
WHICH WILL THEN IMMEDIATELY
START TO LOOK FOR IS, DOES IT
HAVE EXTERNAL POWER?
THESE PLANTS POWER THEMSELVES.
THE PUMPS, THE COOLING SYSTEMS,
THEY'RE POWERED BY THE NUCLEAR
PLANT.
IF THEY FAIL, AND THEY SHOULD
HAVE SECONDLY AND TO SHERRY
POWER SOURCES, WHICH ALLOW THAT
COOLING TO TAKE AWAY THE HEAT,
AND MAKE SURE THAT THE NUCLEAR