>>> WE ARE BACK WITH THE "NEW
YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE LEGAL WRITER EMILY BAZELON.
WRITER EMILY BAZELON.
>> AND ELI MYSTAL'S BOOK AND
VIEWERS MIGHT NOTICE WHAT
APPEARS TO BE A HAIR PICK.
>> OUT OF RESPECT FOR EMILY, I'M
GOING TO KEEP IT IN.
>> IT'S IN THERE FOR A SECOND,
WHICH CAN BE YOUR IMAGE PEOPLE
OR MFT TO THE THE BOOK IF YOU
EVER GET TO THAT POINT.
TWO WRITERS HERE KNOW HOW HARD
THAT IS.
SO SHOUT OUT TO THAT.
LET ME START WITH EMILY.
I JUST WALKED THROUGH THE
DEVELOPMENTS AND IT'S A TALE OF
TWO RESPONSES TO THE COMMITTEE.
THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE,
INCLUDING JARED KUSHNER,
COOPERATED.
AND THEN THESE CLASHES OVER THE
FEW WHO DON'T.
WHAT DO YOU SEE THAT IMPACTING
THE FINAL EVIDENCE REPORT
CONCLUSIONS THAT COME OUT OF
THIS?
BECAUSE WHILE WE IN THE PRESS
ARE FOLLOWING THE STEPS,
ULTIMATELY THEY'RE TRYING TO PUT
TOGETHER AN ENTIRE STORY.
>> WHAT'S CURIOUS TO ME IS THE
DECISION NOT TO APPEAR BEFORE
THE COMMITTEE AT ALL.
IT'S PRETTY ROUTINE FOR ADVISERS
TO A PRESIDENT TO SAY I'M NOT
GOING TO ANSWER CERTAIN
QUESTIONS, I'M GOING TO
NEGOTIATE OVER WHAT KINDS OF
MATERIALS I'M GOING TO TURN
OVER, BUT WHEN YOU JUST
COMPLETELY STIFF THE COMMITTEE,
YOU INVITE A CONTEMPT CITATION,
WHICH IS WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE
AND THEN YOU'RE BASICALLY DARING
CONGRESS TO GO TO THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT AND ASK FOR HELP TO
REALLY BE ABLE TO ENFORCE A
CONTEMPT CITATION.
CONGRESS HAS THAT POWER TO
ENFORCE ON ITS OWN BUT HAS NOT
CHOSEN TO USE IT FOR MANY
DECADES.
IT ALL DEPENDS HOW IT PLAYS OUT
IN TERMS WATCH THE COMMITTEE
ACTUALLY LEARNS.
I THINK WITNESS NECESSARY THESE
CASES OFTEN HOPE THEY CAN STALL.
THAT SOMETIMES WORKS AND THEN
THE COMMITTEE HAS TO FINISH
THEIR WORK WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO
SPEAK WITH THEM AND LEARN WHAT
THEY KNOW.
>> THAT'S FAIR.
WE JUST HEARD FROM CONGRESSMAN
ADAM SCHIFF, ELLIE, ABOUT THIS
PROCESS And THOSE WHO ARE
DUCKING.
HE'S'S WHAT HE
HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.
>> BOTH OF THEM SIMPLY FAILED TO
APPEAR.
THAT MAKES IT VERY EASY FOR THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
THERE'S NO RIGHT, NO PRIVILEGE
THAT ALLOWS YOU TO SAY I AIN'T
EVEN GOING TO BOTHER TO SHOW UP
TO CLAIM PRIVILEGE.
IT DIDN'T FLY WITH US AND IT
WON'T FLY WITH THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT EITHER.
>> WHEN HE SAYS IT WON'T FLY
WITH D.O.J., HE'S GOING AS FAR
AS A MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE I
THINK CAN RESPONSIBLY GO.
HE'S PREVIEWING WHAT HE BELIEVES
IS A POTENTIAL INDICTMENT, WHICH
IS DIFFERENT THAN MARK MEADOWS
AND I'VE EXPLAINED THAT IS A BIT
OF A DIFFERENT FACT PATTERN.
DO YOU AGREE WITH SCHIFF?
ARE YOU THAT BULLISH?
WHAT DO YOU THINK ARLEN SHOULD
DO?
>> THE JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE WANTS
IT TO BE ONE WAY BUT IT THE
OTHER WAY AND THAT IS THE
MERRICK GARLAND WAY.
THE MERRICK GARLAND WAY IS TO DO
WHAT IS NECESSARY TO BRING THESE
PEOPLE TO JUSTICE.
WE'VE GONE THROUGH THE MEADOW
SITUATION.
THAT'S A TRAVESTY.
WHY ARE NAVARRO AND OTHERS NOT
SHOWING UP FOR THE COMMITTEE?
BECAUSE OF WHAT'S GOING TO
HAPPEN TO THEM.
MAYBE MERRICK GARLAND WILL
INDICT THEM FOR CONTEMPT.
IS HE GOING TO EVER HAVE TO TALK
TO THE COMMITTEE?
MAYBE NOT.
SAW IT HAPPEN FROM STEVE BANNON
AND THAT WAS THE EARLIEST ONE
AND NOW WE'RE TALKING HERE IN
MARCH, ALMOST APRIL AND IT'S
JUST ABOUT TO HAPPEN TO NAVARRO
AND SCHIVINO.
THEY'RE THINKING OF SEEKING
MAYBE ONE DAY JENNY THOMAS TO
COME AND SIT IN FRONT OF THE
COMMITTEE.
WHEN SHE SAYS NO, THEN THEY'LL
THINK ABOUT SUBPOENAING HER AND
THEN THEY'LL THINK ABOUT HOLDING
HER IN CONTEMPT, THAT WILL TAKE
MORE TIME.
THEN THEY'LL GO OVER TO GARLAND.
IS GARLAND GOING TO INDICT THE
WIFE OF A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE?
THE END GAME REQUIRE MERRICK
GARLAND TO STAND UP AND IT
HASN'T HAPPENED YET.
>> THAT'S FOUR QUESTIONS YOU'VE
ASKED AND ANSWERED.
TO BE FAIR NOW EMILY GETS UP TO
FOUR IF SHE WANTS TO USE THAT
AND THEN I HAVE LESS TIME FOR
QUESTIONS BUT IT'S FINE.
SHE MAIN OR MAY NOT.
THAT'S HER CALL.
YOU'RE SPEAKING TO WHAT YOU VIEW
AS AN AVOIDABLE SET OF DELAYS?
BECAUSE I'M GOING TO PUSH BACK
ON YOU A LITTLE AND SAY THE
BANNON CAME RELATIVELY KWIJLYQUI
THE TRIAL SCHEDULE IS NOT
SOMETHING THAT MERRICK GARLAND
HAS A MAGIC WAND TO CONTROL.
IT MIGHT GET BORING OF WHAT
HAPPENS IF THE COMMITTEE
DISSOLVES.
OR WHAT HAPPENS THAT CONGRESS
EXISTS, EVEN IF THE CONGRESS
THAT HELD HIM IN CONTEMPT IS
GONE.
ISN'T THERE A SUBSTANTIVE
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BANNON WHERE
THERE'S A SCHEDULE AND OTHER
THINGS HE HASN'T ANNOUNCED.
AND BY THE WAY, JUST FOR
VIEWERS, LET'S BE CLEAR.
DEFYING A SUBPOENA WITH NO REAL
ARGUMENT OR WRITTEN EVIDENCE
FROM THE GOVERNMENT, YOU CAN
CLOSE THAT OUT QUICKLY, WHICH IS
DIFFERENT FROM THE MEADOWS CASE
TO BE FAIR.
>> I AGREE WITH WHAT EMILY HAS
BEEN SAYING ABOUT THE CONGRESS'S
NEED TO ALSO POTENTIALLY USE ITS
INHERENT CONTEMPT POWER.
REMEMBER, ALL THIS IS BOUNCING
THROUGH GARLAND FROM THE
COMMITTEE BECAUSE GARLAND WON'T
USE THE BIGGEST TOOL IN HIS
SHED, WHICH IS THE FBI.
THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT DENYING FBI
SUBPOENAS BECAUSE IF YOU DENY AN
FBI SUBPOENA, YOU SIT IN JAIL
WHILE THEY SORT IT OUT.
BUT MERRICK GARLAND HAS NOT
SICKED THE FBI ON THEM.
>> THAT'S FAIR AND IT GOES TO
WHETHER THEY VIEW THE JANUARY
6th CASE AS A TRESPASSING CASE
WITH A COUPLE OF PROUD BOYS OR
WHETHER THEY VIEW IT AS A
COORDINATED PLAN TO BE
INVESTIGATED, NOT TO BE
PREJUDGED, THAT MAY HAVE REACHED
POLITICAL ELITES IN THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY OR THE WHITE
HOUSE.
EMILY.
>> I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THE
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO
BRANCHES.
SO CONGRESS DOES HAVE THE POWER
TO ENFORCE A CONTEMPT CITATION
ON ITS OWN BUT IT HASN'T IN SUCH
A LONG TIME.
SO THAT IT HAS SORT OF TAKEN
THAT POWER AWAY FROM ITSELF.
THAT MEANS IT CAN KIND OF ISSUE
THESE CONTEMPT CITATIONS FOR
FREE.
DOESN'T HAVE TO REALLY WORRY
ABOUT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
WHEREAS I THINK THAT MERRICK
GARLAND, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL,
HE CAN'T JUST DO THIS FOR SHOW.
HE WOULD HAVE TO REALLY ENFORCE.
I THINK HE'S MAKING THE ARGUMENT
FOR WHY HE SHOULD BUT IT ALSO
WOULD BE A DRAMATIC MOVE TO GO
AFTER FORMER PRESIDENTIAL
ADVISERS IN THIS WAY.
AND HE DOESN'T -- SO FAR WE
HAVEN'T SEEN HIM HAVE THE KIND
OF TEMPERAMENT AND APPETITE FOR
THAT.
HE SEEMS LIKE A MORE CAUTIOUS
ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO WANTS TO
SEEM MORE MODERATE AND I THINK
THAT'S PART OF WHY WE'RE NOT
SEEING THAT, THOUGH I UNDERSTAND
ELLIE'S POINT OF VIEW.
>> FAIRLY PUT AND I WOULD NOTE
WITHOUT ANY RHETORICAL
QUESTIONS.
SO I THINK FOLKS WHO HAVE
WATCHED THE SHOW FOR A LONG TIME
THAT ELLIE IS DOWN TO ZERO,