hi this is michael brooks um... back here with you i'm a writer and blogger
you can check out my work at debbie debbie dot
well w_w_w_ dot elusive obvious dot com
uh... anand dot interview my friend uh... david patten
so pretty of he did
it's great great studio
yet this is
this is an amazing platform i'm honored to uh... have the uh... privilege to be
here
so um...
you heard my kind of opening still have to ask you first of all
uh... any interest in buying rock aware occupy all streets t-shirt now it's not
really my thing ok already i think i think that we jews he miscalculated but
i thought we get the kind of second part of the switches
i do think that there's a kind of shift in the moral ten around these debates
the around uh... occupy that movement because of the just sort of
i think you just say very objectively police overreaction or overreaction
whoever was kind of
commanding police in these situations i think that seems pretty obvious
but in terms of
democrats
getting work on the line with the movement do you still think that there's
a real danger there
in terms of how the public perceives the movement
uh... in spite of these reasons
well i think that your
you may have really good point which is the democrats want to be associate it
with all of the positives of the movement and want to reap the benefits
of the positives as much as possible when it comes to elections without
really going out on any kind of limb and saying the that the right side is the
side of the protesters kind of in a more objective way there's a lot of
equivocating which is
kind of to be expected with with national level politicians particularly
through so yeah i think people need to be aware of that there's a lot of
political manipulation going on here
there's also other types of political manipulation i mean michael bloomberg
the mayor of new york city started taking heat over the last nights at the
last seven to ten days has been that this heaviest part
because of the going into using county park in the middle of the night
and uh... uh... doesn't really a victim people
in a way that some argue is actually not
representative of free speech
et cetera and just the other day just last night i was watching
um...
others at the janak dot c_n_n_ on that if any channels on his going to be a bit
of michael bloomberg press conference right and it's going to be of related to
tear
and right away and i said
this to me seems like a strategy to distract from all the criticisms of
michael bloomberg and after seeing the the
the press conference
where he said that there was a
a parent
lonewolf
who had been tracked for years actually by a criminal informant that was working
with the forties so they knew that this guy was not a real danger they were
watching him
uh... that he had been arrested
and i said to myself isn't this happening all the time is this really
worthy of a news conference and it really seems to me like it's political
posturing around occupy wall street
right racists are reported today that uh...
the f_b_i_ declined to participate in this case because of how value was
considered incredible yet but i really supports what you're saying
so do you think though that if
occupies far as i can tell obviously two very diverse movement there's a lot of
different people there and it and there's a very loose promised it which i
think is really afford to lose it
its advantage from a kind of organizational perspective but it seems
to me that
integers sold in actually knowledge is in a column he wrote you know he tends
to be morse
center-right kinda guy
he said that he sees occupy wall street has basically protest for re-balancing
that things have gotten so extreme in one direction in terms of deregulation
in terms of kind of
financial speculation that it's basically a movement to say
let's restore some kind of balance to the system and open up more
opportunity and you think that there's a way of
adopting some
uh... strategy around that language that can really abed in bed
occupies a totally mainstream worked for the kind of forced reckoned with
it's i think if there was that kind of idea going in
it might have been
more of a reasonable possibility to do that in a real way my concern is now
here that there are there are some things that have come out generally from
occupy
that have been uh... i think positive unclear results and occupy wall street
so for example the fact that republican eric cantor a couple of weeks ago
referred to income disparity
not in a way that's making fun of hippies right but in a way that it's an
actual issue
the way he wanted to resolve it i didn't agree with buddy here as you mentioned
it has a real issue income disparity is a problem for people not just for for
liberals
not just for hipsters as a kind part but for people in this country
that to me is a direct result of occupy wall street
and that's fantastic
however given that we have that and a couple of other you know the banks on
wall street are really the problem in a couple of the other main narratives and
there are over twenty different things that have been presented his positions
i don't know if it's going to really possible to kind of mainstream allies
the idea of re-balancing
for fairness or something like that if it's possible at this point
however if there's a really good kind of p_r_ campaign
that the thing is i think what would be required to do that
is something that that would be against what the movement stands for which is
some kind of
cohesive organization
and maybe actually some experts in public city getting involved
right so you don't you think that there is a
it's a tricky things do you think that professional ising it would probably in
maybe
give the kind of greater chance of type of success for talking up again at the
same time
that you know professional after whatever you want to call it has
politely really struggled for the past couple of decades and in the sense that
this you know movement has probably done more
to get those issues on the front burner and kind of refinance tional discussion
then
any other kind of traditional liberal advocacy group
i hurry i think it's a catch-twenty two because i think what at this point you
know we we can go back and say it from the beginning baby in c were done
that's fine that's kind of a monday morning quarterbacking everything even
though we're actually
it's till sunday proverbial iranian rattle in the in the game
however given where we are now i think the question is how can it go forward
and you know i i think that
police departments like what happened at u_c_ davis
are not doing the movement that once these people to go get jobs as we heard
from many republican politicians and get off the street they're not doing that
move that movement any any service i think i think that the movement is
actually helped by that
uh... because i mean we when you see the video of the pepper spring at
point-blank range of twenty people
it's almost a parody i mean you couldn't parity
pulley
bizarre police action any better
just pepper spring people in the face were clearly just state sitting there
you know so i think that's uh... that's actually doing the most to help the
movement maybe more than any publicist could really do
it's interesting you mention the kind of republicans would get a job in it and i
know you newt gingrich so that he should take a bath to get a job that i thought
to myself you know
this is in my career goal but i think you know plenty of people probably if
they keep their jobs to sort of influenced pedal congressman ron you
know kind of consultancy pyramid schemes like he does basically get paid a lot of
money to grow around
talking to clear things they probably would sure and i know that that that
they wouldn't even though you've got to put that sound like a pretty cushy job
yeah i think a lot of people with the nest at that with with being completely
missed is that a lot of people would take
uh... much lower paying jobs than that to be just can't get them right so it's
not that there that they're there because they're just she canning down
the sixty-eight year of
banking job
or whatever else or ray i mean they're they're one of the reasons there there
is because the jobs profit why why why he banged groceries you put it into you
know what's the matter with you exactly i i mean and i think really determined
curious
here from u
when you look at these republican debate when you look at comments like that
which just even
strategically don't make sense because i think
and unemployment underemployment is
affecting everybody across the board for a few recent graduates with everybody
has a crime
sensitive
you look at it
party that sort of
setting aside a specific policy views they almost seem like with the exception
of you know maybe huntsman
cottages
uh... disavowing and fifty
basically it's really do you find that there are long-term dangers not for them
by actually disagree that it strategically incorrect permit for for
newt gingrich is setting up a divine her death
trip is the primary voters are known to really vote
for kind of the red meat republican ideals which don't benefit them
personally right is a very long tradition
of republican primary voters voting against their own best interest and joe
the plumber who wasn't really a plumber uh... was one of the perfect examples of
that right
um... so actually i don't know that strategically it doesn't it it doesn't
make sense i think maybe it does make sense because actually i think if you
ask even if you asked unemployed
republican primary voters
they'd see themselves as very very different
than a lot of those protesters even though they both don't have a job right
and presumably they would both like the job they still see themselves very very
different
so so maybe it's actually smart what you're doing newt gingrich is going on
in a you know in a follow up on a question of first aid i thought of
remember the couple years ago here at times we profiled people who founded tea
parties and
one of the forget the guy's name but they said you know he got laid off from
you know some middle-management job
and the first thing he did was he went on line he applied for unemployment
benefits to make sure he got all of this government benefits online and he opened
up a
unity party of the communists uh... website so i think you're completely
right triple a few more credit strategic long-term when you're not
arches dealing with
you know republican primary voters and you know god knows what's motivating
them
any kind of longer horizon not just
you could seem like an in two thousand ten
there was
in writing from policies perspectives ridiculous marines but there was a you
know obama's failed we want to get people back to work here's why and
obviously that had some pull
but heading into this election spike
yet you know what employment crisis there is a you know lazy slobs crisis
how does that play in a kind of broader electorate and you know what do you make
of that
beyond the prime
well i think people are waking up it's taking a little it's not happening
overnight but people are waking up
so if if you were to tell me the scenario right now is that the only
place is people can get news are the three-letter
corporate media outlets that were very familiar with
and uh... the the narrative is one where it's just either you believe this kind
of republican narrative about occupy about jobs about
healthcare centre or this is really nothing else
and nobody's really
get organizing about anything else i would say
it's it's it's not going to change in that strategy ship is going to be away
one for republicans however i think with the rise of more and more independent
media outlets and alternative view
with occupy wall street
even though they're so much wrong with the health care reform bill health
insurance reform bill that was passed by the obama white house
it still is something that i think we will keep a lot that you can make
changes even if they are kind of ted kennedy type incremental changes
trip i think that republicans need to use the strategy is fast as possible
to get back in power before people continue waking up because
if you look at the emails i was getting me started the show
years ago
anne distract the tenor and the town of them over time
an extended its cute you know we get emails from both sides and most people
are progressive but people are much more aware of the movements that are taking
place and how to change could actually happen
in four years ago who knew about
corporate personhood and moving to amend right i mean that was not really in the
narrative so many people know about these things right
so i think republicans need to act quickly as they can
before people realized
that what they're being sold is is uh... is is not good it'll get out and get out
there quick republicans those lazy bastards it as much as loudly as
possible i think we're going to a close look at it but i think really i hope i
mean i'm normally very cynical and pessimistic
but i really do see optimism in that particular way
i would follow up on that actually cause i think about uh...
the sort of younger demographic folks like you and i and i just need a certain
extent people who've kind of
you know maybe starting now their own businesses freelancing doing consulting
with kind of new akon ami which is actually
extremely onto the rail extremely independently driven in often with
very very progressive politics so
is opportunity on into the future for democrats and progressive forces to
frame
uh... reinvigorated social spending and opportunity creation
in a kind of arm
that he wants
mentioned scandinavian countries but similar scandinavian countries where
this social infrastructure actually really support aunt marcia and there's
an opportunity for uh...
uh... people to benefit from the independence of opportunities in the of
risk taking
that that are associated with that
without feeling like
interesting projects and respecting and then
gaps lino a floor under you verses the the country shel debating republic the
democrats which is you know
social spending for you know people the sort of spin around and do nothing which
is the republican frame or democratic frame which is you know social spending
for people who actually needed and need to be protected which of course i would
tend to agree with but
getting into this whole other realm of
opportunity creation the effort that we did
frame outstanding well i think
you don't it's it's almost my audience would almost be bored if i go back into
have successful
republicans have been at
framing
uh... at at framing and words living in general right i mean i gotta examples of
thomas strengthening tax relief tax is a bad in there for lower taxes are
relieving you
relief is good night
that's one framing pro-life as something that is actually sometimes very anti
life pro-life so therefore if you think you uh... believe women should have the
right to an abortion
well by definition you must be entire life right so that narrative we did we
know about that level friendly frank luntz stuff
you know exam
if we go to the next step which is that of
socials social spending taxes
health care that type of thing i think individually on the issue isn't
time after time we see that if people are ask fairly not in push polling
not by frank wants but in a real way
do you believe the government should provide a basic level of health care to
everybody
simply for being a member of that society
two-thirds or more time after time say yes right
when you start
motion again with all of the fox new style framing of the
government-controlled plan
the so-called public option in all of that all of a sudden support goes goes
way down so yeah i'm optimistic that if you actually get
cohesive progressive organizing around framing you can actually make a big
difference the thing is
it's just so boring to talk about for so many people would say yeah i get it but
i don't really want to organize around
word so i don't know he cut i love framing in words and i think they're
incredibly important artist and i i think you did but diligent hard to make
a rat appealing broadly you never know absolutely but i i think that i wanna to
chronically
i think in in some ways we can argue that
you know or bombers campaigns
rate at that they did a much better job of creating a cohesive alternative
narrative
and there is a lot of energy around
framing
on after bush is reelected
and now we've kind of out of this next step of
was i was kind of nasty early early keeping activate people for campaign
work but made people want to actually have morris
stand-in stepped into the tent and i think
related to that
maybe that type of republican
framing is more easy to do
when were still riding up at bubble
or or real estate bubble or you know
that kind of weyrich between people on the middle class but
you know you can basically third of the college and get a job you can basically
put their flat screen on your credit card and it's okay
that's getting interim inner it is and is that make that framing
uh... you know
it's like watching entourage you know maybe in two thousand through two
thousand four it was really awesome i wanna lick
you don't go to
well and have this fun lifestyle there may be in two thousand i'm you watch the
season premiere fonterra com
this is a little
slightly obnoxious we disconnected if that yet make sense i think it is in you
know i hate to mention something that
actually republicans mention all the time the people are increasingly bored
with the oscars for example right and i think it's a surprise the ratings for
the oscars go down
every year and i'm not bill o'reilly saying people are sick of elitists per
se
and that the politics of the actors are the reason
i'd i've but i do think that people are increasingly concerned with
real issues affecting them
and that
you know people showing up in limos to the oscars and i know i i almost sound
like a conservative saying it almost sound like go around saying it but
people i'd stopped caring about that i i just i used to be interesting that i'd
just don't care anymore maybe it's because i'm older now
but i don't think so it is my parents also were interested in watching that
ten years ago and now they don't care either and they were always older that
than i am
so i think it is becoming thinner and thinner that as one cabinet door
anecdotal example uh... but yes i i totally agree with that
have always been great talking to be