US RETIRED MILITARY MAJOR JOHN
SPENCER IS THE CHAIR OF URBAN
STUDIES AND THE AUTHOR OF
CONNECTED SOLDIERS.
MY NEXT GUEST IS WILLIAM
PROUDER, HE'S AN AMERICAN BORN
BRITISH BUSINESSMEN AND
POLITICAL ACTIVIST WHO IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FIRST
SERIOUS SANCTIONS TO HIT
RUSSIAN OLIGARCHY'S AND THOSE
CLOSE TO VLADIMIR PUTIN.
THE SANCTIONS REGIME, THE MAN
DID SKI ACT, NAMED AFTER
BROWDER'S FORMER ATTORNEY, NOW
TAKES THE FORM OF LAW IN
SEVERAL COUNTRIES.
MAGNITSKY HIMSELF BLEW THE
WHISTLE ON MASSIVE FRAUD
COMMITTED BY THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT AND ITS OFFICIALS,
AND WAS SUBSEQUENTLY KILLED IN
A RUSSIAN PRISON.
BILL BROWDER IS THE HEAD OF --
HE'S AHEAD OF THE GLOBAL
MINUTES KEY JUSTICE CAMPAIGN,
WHICH CONTINUES CALLS FOR
TARGETED SANCTIONS AND VISA
BANS AGAINST HUMAN RIGHTS
ABUSERS AROUND THE WORLD.
HE'S ALSO THE AUTHOR OF THE
UPCOMING BOOK FREEZING ORDER, A
TRUE STORY OF MONEY LAUNDERING,
MURDER AND SURVIVING VLADIMIR
PUTIN'S WRATH.
BILL, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH
US.
I KNEW AS SOON AS I HEARD THOSE
COMMENTS, THAT SPEECH BY JOE
BIDEN YESTERDAY, I WANTED TO
TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT.
BECAUSE JOE BIDEN, DELIBERATELY
OR INADVERTENTLY, SCRIPTED OR
AD LIBBED, SAID SOMETHING THAT
A LOT OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING, YOU
HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR A LONG
TIME.
THAT'S LATTER MADE PUTIN'S
GOTTA GO.
>> IT'S ENTIRELY CLEAR THAT
VLADIMIR PUTIN IS A SERIAL
KILLER, A WAR CRIMINAL -- [INAUDIBLE]
UNITED STATES AND EUROPE AND A
PRECARIOUS AND THREATENING
POSITION.
WE CAN'T ALLOW HIM TO CARRY ON.
I DON'T THINK THIS WAS AN
ACCIDENT, I DON'T THINK BIDEN
JUST BROUGHT IT UP ON THE STAGE
AND SAID IT.
I WATCHED THE VIDEO A NUMBER OF
TIMES, IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE AN
ACCIDENT TO ME.
IT LOOKS LIKE AN INTERESTING
WAY OF PLAYING PSYCHOLOGICAL
WARFARE ON VLADIMIR PUTIN.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES SAYS THAT PUTIN DOESN'T
DESERVE TO BE PRESIDENT, AND
JUST SO THAT THE RUSSIANS CAN'T
LATCH ON TO THAT AND SAY THAT
AMERICA IS AT WAR, THEY HAVE
THE SECRETARY OF STATE WALKING
IT BACK.
I THINK THIS WAS VERY
DELIBERATE, I THINK IT SERVED
THIS PURPOSE AND I THINK IT PUT
PUTIN ON NOTICE.
BASICALLY SAYING, WE'RE NOT
JUST GOING TO SANCTION YOU,
WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET YOU
OUT OF THIS JOB.
>> YEAH, THAT'S THE VIEW I TOOK,
BILL.
YOU KNOW ABOUT THE STORY BETTER
THAN I DO.
MY SENSES, WOW, A NO-FLY ZONE
WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD BUT GOING
FOR PUTIN, SUGGESTING THAT THE
LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD MIGHT
ACTUALLY RALLY HIS TROOPS OR
THE LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD
AROUND THAT STUFF.
INCLUDING LITTLE THINGS, LIKE
TAKING THEM OUT OF G20, WHICH
BIDEN IS TRYING TO DO.
IT IS AN ENTIRELY OPPOSITE
WORLD OF THE ONE THAT EXISTED
WITH DONALD TRUMP AND VLADIMIR
PUTIN.
VLADIMIR PUTIN IS GETTING THE
SNOW FROM JOE BIDEN, AND THE
SNUB MIGHT HIT HIM HARDER THAN
PEOPLE THINK.
>> THERE IS NO QUESTION.
HE IS COMPLETELY, NOW, ISOLATED
FROM ALL THESE WORLD LEADERS
AND HEADS OF STATE AND OTHER
PEOPLE WHO HE SO COVETED AND
WANTED TO BE PART OF.
THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART
OF THE WHOLE STORY, WHICH IS
VLADIMIR PUTIN THOUGHT, BEFORE
THIS INVASION, THAT HE COULD
DIVIDE US.
HE THOUGHT THAT WE WERE ALSO
NARROW MINDED, THAT WE ALL
CARED SO MUCH ABOUT OUR OWN
BUSINESS INTERESTS, THAT WHEN
HE DID SOMETHING TERRIBLE LIKE
KILLING A BUNCH OF UKRAINIANS
THAT WE WOULD ALL JUST TRY TO
FIND A WAY NOT TO DO ANYTHING.
THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED.
WE'VE COMPLETELY SURROUNDED HIM,
WE'VE LOCKED ARMS.
EVEN THE BIGGEST PUTIN
APOLOGISTS HAVE JOINED US IN
THIS EXERCISE.
HE IS ECONOMICALLY SURROUNDED,
UKRAINIANS ARE GETTING WEAPONS.
AND THEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES, THE LEADER OF
THE FREE, WORLD HAS GONE ON THE
RECORD AND SAYING THAT THIS MAN
SHOULDN'T BE PRESIDENT.
THAT IS A VERY POWERFUL MESSAGE
TO VLADIMIR PUTIN.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT SANCTIONS.
YOU REALLY WORKED HARD TO
DESIGN THE MAGNITSKY ACT THAT
AROUND THE WORLD.
FOR IT TO BE SOMETHING THAT
TARGETED PUTIN AND OLIGARCHS
AROUND HIM, WITHOUT HURTING
AVERAGE RUSSIANS WHO HAVE
NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THING.
OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE RAMPED UP
SANCTIONS NOW, WITH THE
AMERICAN COMPANIES THAT HAVE
PULLED, OUT WITH THE VARIOUS
THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON THAT
DO AFFECT AVERAGE RUSSIANS.
WHO DO NOT GET TO JUST GO TO
THE BALLOT LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE
AND VOTE PUTIN OUT, IF THEY GET
DISSATISFIED.
SO, WHAT POSITION DOES THIS PUT
RUSSIAN PEOPLE IN?
THE KREMLIN HAD SAID, IT'S NOT
UP TO BIDEN TO DECIDE WHO RUNS
RUSSIA, IT'S UP TO THE RUSSIAN
PEOPLE.
YOU KNOW THAT'S BS, IT'S NOT UP
TO THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE.
>> THERE'S NO DEMOCRACY IN
RUSSIA.
A TIME AN OPPOSITION CANDIDATE
APPEARS, LIKES ALEXEI NAVALNY,
THEY TRY TO KILL HIM.
BORIS NEMTSOV THEY DID KILL,
GARRY KASPAROV THEY EXILED.
THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY IN
RUSSIA.
IT WOULD'VE BEEN NICE IF WE HAD
BEEN A LOT TOUGHER BEFORE THIS
INVASION, WHICH TARGETED
SANCTIONS.
SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO AFFECT
THE RUSSIAN POPULATION MORE
BROADLY.
THEY ARE ALL, EFFECTIVELY,
HOSTAGES TO VLADIMIR PUTIN AS
WELL.
SOME OF THEM WILLING, SOME OF
THEM UNWILLING.
BUT WE'RE NOT AT A PLACE WHERE
WE HAVE THAT LUXURY ANYMORE.
HE IS KILLING THOUSANDS AND
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE EVERY DAY,
EVERY WEEK, EVERY MONTH.
WE CANNOT, NO LONGER, TIPTOE
AROUND THIS.
WE HAVE TO THROW EVERYTHING WE
POSSIBLY CAN AT RUSSIA,
SURROUND LAD NEAR PUTIN
COMPLETELY, ECONOMICALLY.
THAT MEANS THE MONEY OF THE
CENTRAL BANK, RESERVES THE
MONEY OF THE OLIGARCHY, AND
STOPPING ANYONE FROM DOING
BUSINESS WITH RUSSIA.
IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT THE
RUSSIAN PEOPLE HAVE TO SUFFER,
BUT UKRAINIAN PEOPLE ARE DYING
RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING
POSSIBLE WE CAN TO PUT PRESSURE
ON PUTIN.
>> BILL, THANKS AS ALWAYS FOR