YORK TIMES." CONGRESSMAN OF PENNSYLVANIA AND
FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR.
I WANT TO START IN THAT ORDER.
CASE AS I,
WHAT A DAY.
A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENED.
TELL ME HOW THE SEQUENCE WORKED
THAT LED TO THIS OVERTIME IN THE
GAME, IF YOU WILL.
>> CHRIS, IT WAS REALLY
REMARKABLE.
REMARKABLE. IN THE MORNING WE GOT THIS
STATEMENT FROM JEFF FLAKE THAT
SAID I’M GOING TO VOTE FOR JUDGE
KAVANAUGH AND WE ALL THOUGHT
THAT WAS POTENTIALLY GOING TO
PUT MORE PRESSURE ON THESE OTHER
REPUBLICAN SENATORS WHO WERE
STILL ON THE FENCE.
WE THOUGHT THE HEARING WAS GOING
TO GO FORWARD.
THE MOOD WAS GOING TO REMAIN
CONTENTIOUS.
CONTENTIOUS. BUT SOMETHING CHANGED THAT
ELEVATOR ENCOUNTER YOU SHOWED
WITH FLAKE WAS ON HIS WAY TO THE
COMMITTEE ROOM.
COMMITTEE ROOM. AFTER HIS STATEMENT HAS BROKEN,
REPORTERS TOLD CHRIS COONS, A
FRIEND OF FLAKE’S SAID A
STATEMENT WAS PUT OUT.
AND HE BECAME EMOTIONAL.
HE’S NOT A GUY THAT TYPICALLY
SWEARS.
SWEARS. IT WAS A TONE MORE SAD THAN
ANGRY AND THAT WAS WHAT
PROCEEDED WHAT PLAYED OUT IN THE
HEARING ROOMMATE.
HEARING ROOMMATE. REMEMBER, THEY WERE IN THERE FOR
HOURS.
HOURS. I STARTED AT 9:30 AND WE DIDN’T
HAVE AN OUTCOME UNTIL 1:30.
THIS WAS ABOUT A PERSONAL
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE
WHO HAVE SERVED TOGETHER IN THE
SENATE.
SENATE. IT WAS WITH THE CAMERAS OFF AND
IT WAS BECAUSE THEY TRUSTED EACH
OTHER THAT JEFF FLAKE COULD
TRUST WHAT SENATOR COONS WAS
SAYING.
SAYING. AND THAT KIND OF AN INTERACTION,
THAT KIND OF TRUST, THAT HAS
BEEN MISSING FROM THE SENATE AND
FROM THE CONGRESS MORE BROADLY,
AND THAT IS WHAT IS BREAKING IT.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE OUTSIDE
POLITICAL FORCES, THE POLITICAL
TRIABLISM, THE WAY THE BASES
ENFORCE THE CODES THAT THEY
HAVE, I’M INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT
KIND OF RECEPTION COONS AND
FLAKE RECEIVE OVER THE COURSE OF
THE NEXT WEEK.
THAT IS FORCING PEOPLE TO NEVER
DO THINGS LIKE THIS.
INSTEAD, SUSAN COLLINS HAD TO
GET DRIVEN OUT OF THE CAPITAL
TONIGHT IN A POLICE CAR BECAUSE
THERE WERE PEOPLE THREATENING
HER IN A WAY THAT MAKES HER FEEL
VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.
VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE PEOPLE
HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT PEOPLE DO
YOU WANT RUNNING THIS COUNTRY.
DO YOU WANT PEOPLE ACTING
DIFFERENTLY?
DIFFERENTLY? IT’S SOMETHING WE’RE ALL GOING
TO HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH AS THIS
PROCESS UNFOLDS.
PROCESS UNFOLDS. >> I HOPE THIS DOES TURN TIDE
AGAINST THIS EVIL INSTABILITY
THAT’S GOING ON BECAUSE IT DOES
MEET SOME OF THE DEMANDS OF THE
PEOPLE WHO CRITICIZE THIS
NOMINATION.
NOMINATION. THE FBI CAN GET A LOT DONE IN A
WEEK.
WEEK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT
REPORTING.
REPORTING. KASIE HUNT.
KASIE HUNT. LET’S GO TO MICHELLE GOLDBERG
WHO’S WRITTEN ABOUT THIS WITH
PASSION.
PASSION. I’LL MAKE THE CASE.
THE FBI’S GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE.
THEY CAN PUT 50 PEOPLE DOWN
THERE AND FIND THIS CHARACTER.
THEY CAN GET THEM ON THE RECORD.
I DON’T CARE WHAT IF THEY SPEND
ENOUGH TIME WITH HIM, THE SAME
WITH ALL THE PEOPLE THAT MAY
HAVE BEEN AT THE PARTY, THE
CHEVY CHASE AREA.
ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WENT TO HIGH
SCHOOL IN
SCHOOL IN SCHOOL.
SCHOOL. THEY HAVE THE CANDLE POWER TO
FIND OUT A GOOD PERCENTAGE OF
THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS GUY.
YOU WROTE BEAUTIFUL TODAY, YOUR
THOUGHTS?
THOUGHTS? >> I JUST THAT’S RIGHT.
I THINK THAT’S WHY THIS CAME AS
A PROFOUND RELIEF TO ME BECAUSE
WHAT CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD, WHAT
THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN ASKING
FOR HAS NOT BEEN THAT RADICAL.
THEY’VE BEEN ASKING FOR AN FBI
INVESTIGATION, THEY’VE BEEN
ASKING FOR AT LEAST A PROCESS AS
DECENT AS ANITA HILL GOT, WHICH
IS NOW REMEMBERED AS A NATIONAL
SHAME.
SHAME. AND SO I THINK THAT, YES, THERE
ARE A LOT OF LEADS.
IT’S BEEN CRAZY THE WAY
YESTERDAY WAS PRESENTED AS HE
SAID, SHE SAID, WHEN BY ALL
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS THERE’S ANOTHER
WITNESS CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD
IDENTIFIED AS BEING IN THE ROOM,
WANTED TO BE SUBPOENAED, WANTED
THE FBI TO INTERVIEW, AND PEOPLE
ARE ACTING AS IF THERE IS NO WAY
TO GET AT THE TRUTH OF WHAT
HAPPENED 36 YEARS AGO WHEN AS
YOU SAID, THERE ARE A LOT OF
DIFFERENT LEADS THAT YOU CAN
FOLLOW, AND THAT WHAT’S SHE’S
BEEN ASKING FOR ALL ALONG.
>> SEEMS LIKE IT’S NOT HARD TO
CRACK THE CASE MADE BY THE
NOMINEE.
NOMINEE. FIRST OF ALL, IF THERE WAS A
PARTY.
PARTY. AND THEY KNEW HE WAS THERE AND
HE DENIES IT, THAT’S A PROBLEM.
IF HEZ-- SEEMS THAT HE CAN BE
CAUGHT IN A PERJURY TRAP IF THE
FBI REALLY DOES THE JOB.
>> ONE OF THE QUESTIONS GOING
FORWARD IS IF THEY DON’T
ACTUALLY FIND ANYTHING DEFENSIVE
OF THE SEXUAL ASSAULT.
WHETHER IT WILL MATTER THE
SMALLER LIES THAT HE TOLD WHILE
HE WAS TESTIFYING TO CONGRESS
THAT ARE ALMOST DEFINITELY -- HE
WAS ALMOST CERTAINLY DISHONEST
ABOUT HIS DRINKING RECORD,
TALKING ABOUT HOW HE HAD NEVER
BLACKED OUT WHEN MANY CLASSMATES
SAY OTHERWISE.
SAY OTHERWISE. HE SEEMED TO HAVE BEEN DISHONEST
ABOUT THE MEANING OF CERTAIN
KIND OF SEXUAL INNUENDOES IN HIS
YEAR BOOKS.
YEAR BOOKS. THERE WAS PLENTY OF TIMES WHERE
HE COULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT
FRANK AND MAYBE ADMITTED THAT HE
WAS A JERKY HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT,
INSTEAD HE PUT FORWARD THIS
IMAGE AS A CHOIR BOY.
I FORGET A FEELING THAT’S GOING
TO SHOWN QUICKLY TO BE UNTRUE.
THE QUESTION IS WHETHER ANY OF
THAT WILL BE DEFINITIVE WHEN THE
SENATE FINALLY VOTES ON THIS.
>> A HARD LINE TO DEFEND.
TWO WOMEN HAVE ACCUSED BRETT
KAVANAUGH AND HIS FRIEND MARK
JUDGE OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT.
YESTERDAY UNDER OATH DR. FORD
ACCUSED KAVANAUGH OF ASSAULTING
HER WHILE JUDGE LOOKED ON, AN
ALLEGATION HE’S DENIED.
AS A CENTRAL FIGURE, MR. JUDGE
WAS NEVER CALLED TO TESTIFY.
NOT YES. I THINK HE’S GOING TO
HAVE HIS DAY.
DR. FORD WAS ASKED IF SHE WOULD
LIKE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.
>> WOULD YOU LIKE MARK JUDGE TO
BE INTERVIEWED IN CONNECTION
WITH THE BACKGROUND
INVESTIGATION AND THE SERIOUS
CREDIBLE ALLEGATIONS THAT YOU’VE
MADE?
MADE? >> THAT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE.
I’M NOT SURE IT’S REALLY UP TO
ME.
ME. BUT I CERTAINLY WOULD FEEL LIKE
I COULD BE MORE HELPFUL TO
EVERYONE IF I KNEW THE DATE THAT
HE WORKED AT THE SAFEWAY SO I
COULD GIVE A MORE SPECIFIC DATE
OF THE ASSAULT.
>> WITH THE INVESTIGATION
REOPENED AS OF TODAY, JUDGE SAID
HELD COOPERATE WITH ANY LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.
ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. SEEMS TO ME HE’S A FIGURE IN
THIS CASE, A POSSIBLE WITNESS A
PURPOSE PEPPER, IF YOU WILL, AND
HE SAYS I WANT TO BE
CONFIDENTIAL?
CONFIDENTIAL? >> THAT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
>> ONCE THEY’RE COMPLETED?
>> SO THE FBI WILL BE LOOKING AT
WITNESSES, CORROBORATING THIS
INFORMATION AND ASSESSING THE
CREDIBILITY OF KAVANAUGH.
WITH WITNESSES YOU HAVE SOMEONE
YOU NEVER HAVE IN A SEXUAL
ASSAULT CASE, YOU HAVE AN
EYEWITNESS.
EYEWITNESS. THEY HAVE TO TALK TO MARK JUDGE.
YES, HIS LAWYERS SUBMITTED A
LETTER, BUT WHEN YOU’RE SITTING
IN A ROOM WITH TWO OR THREE LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENTS SKILLED IN
THE ART OF INTERROGATION, THAT’S
A DIFFERENT STORY.
CORROBORATING EVIDENCE, DR. FORD
HAS A VERY SPECIFIC MEMORY OF
THE HOUSE, ITS LAYOUT, THE
ROOMS.
ROOMS. SHE SAYS SHE DOESN’T KNOW THE
ADDRESS.
ADDRESS. FBI AGENTS WILL DRIVE HER AROUND
THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO SEE IF SHE
CAN LOCATE IT.
AS MICHELLE ALLUDED TO, WHETHER
HE IS CREDIBLE, WHETHER JUDGE
KAVANAUGH HAS TOLD THE TRUTH
UNDER OATH TO THE SENATE, AMONG
OTHER THINGS HE SAID HE’S NEVER
BEEN TO ANY PARTY LIKE THE ONE
THAT DR. FORD DESCRIBED.
I DON’T THINK ANYBODY BELIEVES
THAT.
THAT. AGAIN, WHEN THE SENATE IS
CONFRONTED WITH FBI STATEMENTS
ABOUT LITTLE LIES THAT JUDGE
KAVANAUGH TOLD TIME AFTER TIME
THEY WILL HAVE A DECISION O
MAKE.
MAKE. >> WHAT ABOUT THE WOMAN WHO WAS
AT THE PARTY DOWNSTAIRS WHO
WOULD REMEMBER THE OCCASION?
>> AGAIN, THERE’S LITERALLY A
LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THEY COULD
TALK TO, INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO
HAVE COME UP IN THE OTHER
ALLEGATIONS BECAUSE THEY HAVE
CONSISTENT STATEMENTS.
CONSISTENT STATEMENTS. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, EN
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, MICHAEL
AVENATTI’S CLIENT SAYS THIS IS A
MAN WHO WAS FREQUENTLY DRUNK AND
WATCHED A WOMAN BEING SEXUALLY
ASSAULTED, MARK JUDGE’S
GIRLFRIEND DURING COLLEGE HAS
THE SAME STORY.
SHE DOESN’T PLACE JUDGE
KAVANAUGH THERE, BUT SHE SAID
MARK JUDGE TOLD HER ABOUT AN
EXPERIENCE HE HAD WHEN HE WAS IN
COLLEGE OR HIGH SCHOOL IN WHICH
A WOMAN WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED
WITH A BUNCH OF GUYS WATCHING.
>> THE FBI HAS ENOUGH PEOPLE TO
DO THIS QUICKLY, RIGHT?
>> YES.
>> YES. THEY HAVE LIE DETECTOR TESTS AND
THE D.C. CIRCUIT IN 2016 DECIDED
A CASE WHERE SOMEONE WAS
COMPLAINING ABOUT LAW
ENFORCEMENT USING LIE DETECTOR
TESTS, THAT IT WASN’T CREDIBLE.
THE D.C. CIRCUIT SAID THEY’RE
CREDIBLE FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT
AGENTS TO USE IN CRIMINAL