[MUSIC PLAYING]
Number one show in late night.
Every guest gets more illustrious.
Mero, who is in the building tonight?
Oh, man.
He needs no introduction, but I'm going to do one anyway.
Ladies and gentlemen, it is Samuel L. Jackson,
legendary thespian in the building with us today
in the bodega. Come on, man.
[APPLAUSE]
Level up.
Samuel L. Jackson, how are you doing?
What's that mean when you said,
he doesn't need an introduction?
That people should know who I am.
They should just know who you are.
I'm notorious enough to be-- you know?
Not notorious, legendary.
MERO: Legendary.
You know what I'm saying? - Legendary.
No, you are.
Listen.
You've got classic movies.
What's the legend?
I'm going to stop you right there.
There's nobody on this planet Earth
that could play Jules from "Pulp Fiction" the way you did.
- Oh. - Yes.
You know what I'm saying?
Nobody else on Earth can do that character justice the way
you did.
Exactly.
How-- because you started in Morehouse--
shout out of Morehouse.
How did you just get this appreciation
for acting like this?
Just because like you put your all in every character you get.
Well, we had a pretty tough theater
director, Dr. Burroughs, who ran the theater
department at Spelman.
OK.
So he was all about committing and doing it.
He'd just scream at you from-- the lights out in the theater.
He'd just scream at you, and yell things at you.
And we'd like do it.
Plus, we had like a commitment to wanting to be pros.
They actually divided up kids who were like taking theater
courses as requirements and people
who really intended to do it--
OK.
--as a living.
So it was like, well, all of you who
are going to do it for a living, you've got this commitment,
but I want you to go out and get an agent.
And we had our own theater company, the Black
Image Theater Company.
That was like a street gorilla theater.
Sometimes referred to as Kill Whitey Theater.
We'd be in LA, saying, "Die, n*****s!
The white folk are going to take over."
OK.
You know?
This is very important culturally.
But we were really committed to being in this business
and taking it over.
And I love movies in that way.
I would go to the movies, and I'm
sitting there trying to figure out, yeah, how can I do that?
I could do that.
I could do that better, or wow, I would be dope doing that.
Do you still do that?
Uh.
Not to throw any shade at anybody.
- I'm critical. - You're critical?
- Yeah. - OK.
[LAUGHTER] - OK.
I respect it. I respect it.
You know what?
When we've asked some people before, they're just like,
no, I would never do that.
But to hear someone, eh, listen, I'm like that.
Yeah. I look at stuff.
I'm going--
You'd be like, hey.
Hey, I wouldn't have done it like that.
What was that choice?
Hey, hey, that's what I'm talking about.
So you started on stage.
Yes.
Did you want to stay on stage or did you see movies,
and say, fuck the stage.
I want to do movies.
See, I used to be that dude that thought acting
was like every other job.
You start at the bottom, and you work your way up.
Right.
So I always figured that the theater was the mail room.
Right.
And you know, and then I'd get lucky enough.
I'd get a commercial. - Yep.
Make some money.
And then if I was luckier, I'd get a soap.
Ooh.
And then lucky enough to get another-- like a TV show.
And then you get discovered, and boom!
You become a movie star.
Right.
It ain't like that?
That ain't the way it works.
[LAUGHTER]
How does it work?
Let us know, because we're trying to learn.
I mean, the business is the business.
You've got to have people who know where the jobs are,
who's doing the jobs, how many jobs they got,
what the budget is, and where you can fit in that budget
sometimes.
So the business aspect of it didn't hit me for a while
until--
I was always of the mind that I wasn't going
to LA until they sent for me.
Right.
Because I was fine here.
Right.
SAMUEL: I was doing Pulitzer Prize-winning plays.
Then I got caught up in my own drug and craziness,
and doing that.
And because I had done all that, Spike stayed with me
and threw me in "Jungle Fever," and I played Gator.
Yes.
I'd already done the research, so--
Exactly.
I killed it, you know?
- You sure did. - You know?
Listen.
We all remember the Gator dance.
Brace yourself yourself in the room.
I came out of rehab.
You know, I didn't need makeup.
I was still detoxing, you know?
And I was like two weeks out of rehab
when I started doing "Jungle Fever."
And then I used to call my agent and go, did Hollywood call?
He'd go, no, Sam.
Hollywood didn't call.
And I'd call her.
Hollywood called yet?
As a matter of fact--
Ooh.
It changed!
These people want to see you for this movie.
Boom! And I'd get the joint.
And I'd go from "Jungle Fever" to "White Sands," and--
It takes off from there.
Yeah.
So how do you pick movies now?
Because the latest thing you did is "The Last Days
of Ptolemy Grey."
SAMUEL: A limited series.
DESUS: A limited series.
And it was a passion project?
Passion project.
I bought the book 12 years ago or so,
because I love Walter Mosley.
Shout out to Walter Mosley.
I bought the book, and started trying to get it done.
And people were trying to do it as like an hour and a half
movie, or a two-hour movie.
It's like, nah, you can't tell this story.
You've got to tell the story.
MERO: Yeah.
And I was kind of messing around with people,
trying to get it done.
And they're like, well, you know, we don't want to do
a thing that's a miniseries.
You're doing "The Sopranos."
You're doing, you know, "Deadwood."
You're doing-- look, why not?
To answer my own question, look in the mirror,
it's like, oh, OK.
Speak on it.
And they bought it.
And once I didn't want to do it that particular way,
I had to wait until they got through with it,
and then it went in turn around so I could get it back.
- OK. - So it took a while.
Right.
And now the movie deals with Alzheimer's, and it's just
like-- you playing this role, because you've said
you've personally experienced this.
My grandfather, my mom, my aunt,
her brother, my father's sister, so I'm surrounded by it.
Yeah.
I have people in my family with Alzheimer's,
and watching them just fade.
- Oh, my god. - It's like soul-crushing.
It's like the worst thing in the world
to watch the light go out in their eyes.
It's like, oh, man.
And they can't remember you, and like, they
don't remember their names. - Yeah.
Yeah.
So how did you incorporate that when
you were playing this role?
Communicating with them, talking to them.
During the present time and during the times when
the light was out.
- Right. - You know?
And there were like days that I would say something to my mom,
or I'd ask her, do you remember so-and-so?
And I could see her trying to remember it.
And if I said, come on now.
You remember it.
And then it'd be like she'd get angry because she
couldn't remember it. DESUS: Right.
That frustration on their face.
And then I said, oh, come on, mom.
And then she'd just shut down.
It was like, oh.
And I remember all those things, and realize
you can't antagonize them--
Right.
--like that.
Or you'd press them on some stuff.
And then there were days that I'd just talk to her,
and we were talking about something
that I thought was important.
And you know, she was sitting there,
and I thought she was listening.
She's like, mm.
And then when I said, what do you think about that?
And she'd like start talking about something totally
different that had nothing to do with what
we were talking about.
You'd know it's like, oh.
And it's crazy.
Yeah.
The key to all that kind of stuff
is when that light goes out for them, and they're like gone
in that space they're in, the upbringing
that they gave you to care about other people,
to have compassion, and all that other stuff
is what you need to tap into to give to them in that moment,
because that's what they need from you.
It's that support.
So how different was it doing something like this
versus like being Nick Fury?
Uh, well, Nick Fury is me reacting
to things that happened.
And doing a person like Ptolemy is literally
acting, because I have to go inside
and do things or affect other people that are around me.
It's more like life.
And it's possibly the first episode
and a half could be a little bit triggering for people who
are dealing with people who have dementia
or Alzheimer's, because, hopefully, the depiction is
real and honest. - Accurate.
You know?
And they can look at it, and they'll kind of cringe.
Recognize what they're going through as well.
There's a point where Ptolemy has an opportunity to--
Walter wrote a fantastical ideal of there being a miracle cure
that he can take, but if he takes it,
you're only going to live a week, maybe.
Wow.
That's the big choice.
Do you want to be clear for a week
so you can tighten up all the things that you left behind you
or, you know, you just want to stay in this particular place
right here?
Would you make that choice? - This weird purgatory.
Yeah, ooh.
Do you have a favorite role?
I always say, yeah.
I probably don't.
The guy I enjoy watching the most
because I had the most fun doing this movie was Mitch Hennessey.
You know who that is?
Which movie was that?
"Long Kiss Goodnight."
"Long Kiss Goodnight," yes!
- Oh, shit! - Named after--
Geena Davis.
Like a big named song after that.
That was a good-- that was good one.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, Charly Baltimore.
Yes.
Charly Baltimore.
SAMUEL: Geena Davis was Charly Baltimore.
Yo!
Put it together.
Hip hop.
The most dangerous woman in a movie ever at that time.
That's like a hood classic right there.
Oh, yeah, she kills it.
Oh, that's a good one.
Geena was killing it.
I had a good time with it.
It was freezing when we did that movie.
I think the average temperature of that film was like 37 below.
Damn!
That's cold.
We were real cold.
So when it's cold like that, how
do you just focus on acting?
I had heavy clothes and lots of underwear on, layered up.
But when she machine guns that ice and we go in the water--
Yeah.
They did that.
They found a place.
You could see the city behind us,
and they cut a hole in the ice and put a little tub in there,
because there was a current.
And we had to crawl across the ice,
get in, go down, count to five, come
up, and crawl across the ice.
One take?
We did it five times.
Jesus.
Oh, you really about this shit, bro.
You're really about this shit, because I turn
on the water in the shower--
Well, they had a hot tub, so we would go sit in the hot tub.
OK.
You know, while they checked the replay, which is not good,
because you've still got to go back.
Go back and reshoot it.
They'd go back over there and break the ice
before we could get in it.
It was like, ah!
It was crazy.
So you were saying earlier that you
thought the progression was stage, commercial, soap.
When you realized that was not it, what of those like formats
or outlets, whatever you want to call it,
do you find the easiest?
It's just like, yo, this is a layup, bro.
I'm going go do this Capital One commercial.
Yeah.
Shout out to them Capital One commercials.
It works.
Give it up for the Capital One commercials.
We don't need Black History month.
We be seeing like one tear out, like, we've made it.
That's right!
Hey, I've got a new Capital One commercial coming
this week, March Madness.
Yeah, because me and-- - Love to see it.
--the three amigos.
What's in your wallet?
Me, Spike, and Chuck, we get to do those great commercials
every year.
Oh, shit.
On our way to the NCAA tournament.
Oh, just late, late, late flicks.
But movies are easy.
The hard part about doing a movie
is getting up, and the amount of time that you're there all day.
Yeah.
I mean, the average movie day is somewhere between 12
and 16 hours, you know?
So it's work.
And then how much of that is just standing around?
Out of a 12-hour day, I would say you work hour and a half,
straight up, you know?
Because you go in, and you do 10, 15, 20 seconds, you know?
And I'd get irritated with the process
sometimes, because it's like, we're going to take four hours
to do like 15 seconds of movie.
Yeah.
It's the shot.
What's the problem?
That's why we don't have that problem here.
But movies are easy, man.
OK
How are you like on set, though?
You know what I mean?
When you get to the set, are you vibing with people?
I'm always trying to be cool with everybody, you know?
Because it's all about the team.
The teamwork is what makes the dream work.
Absolutely.
I know who the cameramen are.
I talk to the camera dudes.
I'm having fun with them.
I'm having fun with the people I'm working with.
I bump heads with directors from time
to time, because I have a thing in my head about how--
I see a movie before I do it.
DESUS: OK.
And what happens when you bump heads like that?
Do you usually win?
Because you're Samuel L. Jackson.
Or does it depend on who it is?
Because you work with Tarantino, Spike Lee.
- Yeah. - You name them.
I don't argue with some of them.
Right.
Because some of them, I know they know what they're doing.
But sometimes, people get in--
You're like, that ain't it, chief.
That's not what's happening.
You ever put some shit-- be like, hey, Spike!
What the fuck is this, Spike?
Or you argue with guys because they want you to do something
that doesn't make sense.
Right.
And I'm not going to do something
that the audience is going to be sitting there going like--
- What the fuck is he doing? - Why did he pull his dick out?
He didn't need to pull his dick out for that.
Yeah, man.
There was a guy who told me once.
Look, there's all these people coming,
and you need to distract them.
So take the bullets, and throw them over that way.
So it's like, dude, it's a gunfight.
Right. Who's throwing bullets?
I need bullets.
Or I stop and pick up guns of people that I shoot.
And they, don't stop.
And I go, he's got a gun.
I need a gun.
There's seven of them.
There's one of me.
I need more guns.
I always got frustrated watching movies.
So I'm like, you're leaving guns right there.
Yeah.
Or you somebody shoot someone, and just--
Or they just shoot.
Like, no, you've got to be specific.
You're doing off-screen reload.
And [GUN SHOOTING].
It's like a game, like [GUN SHOOTING]..
No, no!
And I'm going to use my pistol.
If there's a shotgun, I'm using my pistol to get to a shotgun.
Exactly.
That's upgrading.
I was about to say that's what makes me the most mad,
because they'll kill 20 henchmen with AKs,
and just still running through with the--
Nobody stops-- says, oh, let me get this machine gun here.
Let me get-- this big one.
Do you have any role that you did that you were like,
damn, I needed that check.
All of them.
- Yeah? - I mean--
[LAUGHTER]
No, but I'd be like-- you was like, maybe I'm doing like some
home furnishing, or something. I wanted a new car.
- No. - No?
None, not even the Crystal's one.
Well, Crystal, I was a young actor.
I was hoping to do a commercial. - OK.
You know?
So you do that.
See, there's a point in your career
where you're going to auditions, and
you're hoping you get hired, whether you
care about the project.
Well, most times you don't even know what
the whole script is anyway.
They're just giving you like four pages.
- Here's your-- - You show up.
- Here's your sides. - Yeah.
Here's your sides.
You go in.
You do the audition.
And you hope you get the job.
Right.
Now, there's another point, if you get to that point,
where people are sending you things.
Yeah.
And then you have to start making choices.
Choices.
Which will either keep you in the business,
or get you out of the business, or you're
trying to do something quick, cheap, and just steal a check.
Got you.
Choices are what keeps you in the business.
Choices are what gets you out of it, you know?
But because the name of the game is asses in seats.
- True - Speak on it.
- That's a fact. - Yeah.
So that's it.
When I get criticized, oh, when people
go, oh, that motherfucker plays the same guy all the time.
I say, well, I like that guy, you know?
That's me, motherfucker!
And he makes money.
Those are the movies I would have
gone to see when I was a kid.
So sometimes I make those choices.
When they called me and said, "King Kong," I was like, oh,
shit! - Yeah.
- Hell yeah! - Let's fucking go!
Hell yeah!
It was like, "Kong Skull Island"?
You mean like "King Kong"?
OK, fine. - "Shaft"?
There you go.
"Shaft," I had some problems with at first.
When John first came to me, and I was like,
why do you need a new Shaft?
And he's like, well, it's been a long time.
You know, it's 2000.
We need-- and I was like, if you can get Richard to be in it,
I'll do it.
- Yeah, Richard Roundtree. - Yeah.
- Peoples. - Yeah.
You know what?
Peoples wasn't even the bad guy when
we first started doing Shaft.
It was Christian Bale.
Ah, yeah.
After he killed [INAUDIBLE].
And I was like, I can drive to his house
and kill him any time.
Any time.
This is the bad guy.
And they were like, what?
I was like, Peoples.
And Jeffrey, come on.
- Yeah. - Jeffrey--
He ate that.
Jeffrey stepped all up in it.
Everybody thought Jeffrey was a Dominican.
MERO: I thought he was Dominican.
I was like, yo, we did it, baby.
Who is this guy?
We made it.
And then I saw him in another movie.
He's like, well, I'm Jeffrey Wright.
But everything Jeffrey does, he kills.
I feel like you are one of those
like special crop of actors that's like, man,
this dude ain't going nowhere.
You know, when I was here, when I first got here,
I landed in New York on Halloween night 1976, right?
And that was this cadre of Black actors,
big ass cadre of Black actors.
And I remember when Denzel showed up, you know?
And everybody was like, yeah, D, hey.
And then people started getting plucked out.
You know, Morgan left and did "Street Smart,"
and then Denzel left and did "St. Elsewhere,"
and then he started doing all these movies,
and then Fish left, and then Wesley left.
So you're in the right place.
Yeah.
You're just waiting on your turn to come, you know?
So you just keep on doing your grind.
So I was fortunate in that I had these kind of guys
that we worked together.
We came up together.
Or even in college, when my wife was there,
Bill Nunn was my roommate.
- Oh, wow. - You know?
Housemate.
We were doing plays together.
We just saw him on TV the other night.
So there are a lot of guys that we came up with that are still
working, or that got the break that got them out there,
and then they made the choices that kept them out there,
you know?
So it's a science, because you can do stuff that'll
take you out of the game.
You can win an Oscar and get taken out of the game,
because the next movie you do or the next three movies you do.
You know?
And we don't get that many bites at the apple.
That's right.
You know.
You only fail so many times before--
you know? - It's a wrap.
- That's a fact. - Yeah.
Start looking for the next one.
That's right.
And they were never looking for the next Denzel,
or the next Forest Whitaker, or even the next me.
They were always looking for the next Brad Pitt, the next Tom
Cruise, those guys, because they didn't believe
that we had an audience.
And people have proved that we do.
- Hello. - Without a doubt.
Yeah.
Our folks went out and saw those movies,
and all the girls loved Denzel.
I wasn't a heartthrob, but, you know, I found my space.
You still got a little.
Yeah.
But you know, I don't--
I don't do the--
I don't do the "get the girl" movie.
You don't got to.
We're just saying, if you wanted to, you could.
All right?
Locked in.
Only in "Eve's Bayou."
Hey!
This has been a legendary interview.
Nothing but illustrious guest, Samuel L. Jackson.
Everyone that comes to the bodega gets a neon sign.
Ow!
What would you like your neon sign to say?
Um, the BMF was here.
DESUS: Hey.
MERO: Yeah!
You know what that means.
Bad motherfucker.
That's right.
Can we get you saying, "motherfucker"?
Of course, I say, motherfucker all the time.
There we go.
You know, it's like there are varying degrees of it.
Varying degrees.
- It's like, motherfucker. - There!
You know?
Then it's like, hey, motherfucker, what's up?
That's a good motherfucker.
That motherfucker.
Yep!
It's different levels.
All of it, we make it work.
We make it work.
Samuel L. Jackson in the building.
SAMUEL: Appreciate it.
Can I get a Lucy?
Hey!
Hit that man with a Newport!