FLORIDA. >> GOOD MORNING GLAD ARE YOU JOIN US I’M MICHAEL PUTNEY.
>> I’M GLENNA MILLBURG.
WE DEVOTE THIS HOUR TO SOME OF
THE MOST WATCHED RACES IN SOUTH
FLORIDA AND WE START WITH THE
RACE FOR MIAMI-DADE’S TOP
PROSECUTOR.
CAT MINUTE FERN FREZ RUNDLE
KATHERINE FERN REZ RUNDLE. >> AND MEDICAL
SHE HAS BEEN THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE A.C.L.U. OF FLORIDA, GOOD MORNING.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON.
WE ARE GOING TO USE FIRST NAMES
BECAUSE WE HAVE KNOWN BOTH OF
YOU FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.
KATHY LET ME BEGIN WITH A
SERIOUS QUESTION THAT HAS BEEN
ASKED IN THIS CAMPAIGN.
YOU HAVE BEEN THE STATE ATTORNEY
FOR 27 YEARS AND IN THAT TIME
YOU HAVE NEVER CHARGED AN ON
DUTY COP WITH MURDER.
THERE IS ONE PROMINENT CASE
INVOLVING A PRISON INMATE HE WAS
SCHIZOPHRENIC AND DOING TWO
YEARS ON COCAINE POSSESSION IN A
SOUTH PRISON.
TWO CORRECTIONS OFFICERS PUT HIM
IN A SCOLDING HOT SHOWER FOR TWO
HOURS.
HE DIED.
IT TOOK YOU FIVE YEARS TO DECIDE
IN CHARGES WOULD BE FILED.
WHY DIDN’T YOU FILE AGAINST THE
CORRECTIONS OFFICERS?
>> A COUPLE OF THINGS.
WHEN WE WATCHED THAT IT WAS VERY
HEARTBREAKING FOR SO MANY OF US
TO SEE THAT.
BUT THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
SCIENCE OF IT WHAT A PROSECUTOR
HAS TO DO IS RELY ON WHAT A
MEDICAL EXAMINER SAYS.
IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, STATE
LAW SAYS THE MEDICAL EXAMINER
FOR THAT COMMUNITY IF IT’S NOT
RELATED TO ME, THE MEDICAL
EXAMINER IS A SEPARATE
INDEPENDENT PATHOLOGIST THAT
CONDUCTED THE AUTOPSY ON Mr.
RAINY.
AND THAT DETERMINATION BY THE
EXPERT THE EXPERT WAS THAT IT
WAS NOT A HOMICIDE.
THAT THERE WERE NO BURNS ON HIS
BODY.
THERE WERE NO BURNS ON HIS FEET
WHICH WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED THE
ALLEGATION THAT HE WAS STANDING
IN A HOT SHOWER.
>> IF I MAY INRETURN YOU.
IF INTERRUPT YOU.
WE KNOW THE DOCTOR REACHED THAT
CONCLUSION SHE IS A FINE
FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST.
HOWEVER AN INDEPENDENT FORENSIC
PATHOLOGIST WAS HIRED BY THE
FAMILY AND THEY DETERMINED IN
FACT THERE HAD BEEN SERIOUS
BURNS THAT HAD CAUSED HIS DEATH.
DID YOU JUST IGNORE THOSE
CONCLUSIONS?
>> IN THE CRIMINAL ARENA THERE
IS A MUCH DIFFERENT STANDARD
THAN IN THE CIVIL ARENA.
THE CIVIL ARENA WHICH IS A LOWER
STANDARD OF PROOF, THE LAWYERS
THAT IS WHAT THEY DO.
THEY HIRE EXPERTS.
THEY GET EXPERTS TESTIMONY TO
SUPPORT THEIR CASE.
BUT IN THE CRIMINAL ARENA, OUR
BURDEN IS MUCH HIGHER.
OUR ETHICAL OBLIGATION IS MUCH
STRONGER.
WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PROVE A
CASE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT
BASED ON THE EVIDENCE.
>> THE EVIDENCE BY THE DOCTOR
THE CHIEF PATHOLOGIST THAT MAKES
THAT DECISION WAS IT WAS NOT A
HOMICIDE.
MY HANDS ARE TIED.
>> YOU HAVE USED THAT ARGUMENT
TO PROVE A CASE BEYOND A
REASONABLE AT THAT DOUBT TO TALK
YOUR OFFICE NOT CHARGING ON DUTY
POLICE OFFICERS WITH MURDER FOR
SEVERAL DECADES.
THAT IN CONTEXT IS A PRETTY
NORMAL OPERATION IN THE STATE OF
FLORIDA ONLY ONE POLICE OFFICER
HAS BEEN CONVICTED IN 30 YEARS.
USING THAT STANDARD AS BEING
ABLE TO PROSECUTE A CASE BEYOND
A REASONABLE DOUBT TO A JURY,
HOW WOULD YOU DO THINGS
DIFFERENTLY SEEING THE STANDARDS
TO PROSECUTE POLICE OFFICERS
CRIMINALLY IS VERY HIGH AND
BROAD IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
>> OF COURSE, THANK YOU FOR THAT
QUESTION.
SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE
PROSECUTOR’S DUTY IS TO MAKE
SURE YOU ARE SEEKING EQUITABLE
JUSTICE FOR EVERYONE.
THERE HAVE BEEN MANY MISSED
OPPORTUNITIES UNDER MY
OPPONENT’S WATCH INCLUDING IN
THE RAINY CASE I DIFFER WITH HER
ANALYSIS OF THE FACTS AND A
MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE COULD HAVE
BEEN SUBSTANTIATED BASED ON THE
EVIDENCE MADE AVAILABLE
INCLUDING THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S
REPORT.
WHAT I INTEND TO DO DIFFERENTLY
IS CREATE A CIVIL RIGHTS UNIT
AND I WILL HAVE DEDICATED
PROSECUTORS WHO ONLY WORK ON
POLICE MISCONDUCT AND POLICE
SHOOTING CASES.
HAVING BEEN IN THAT OFFICE AND
DONE THE WORK, I KNOW HOW IT
OPERATES BASICALLY, YOU HAVE
YOUR DAY-TO-DAY CASE LOAD AND
YOUR ASSIGNMENT THAT YOU HAVE AS
A PROSECUTOR ON A VOLUNTEER
BASIS, YOU END UPTAKING ONE OR
TWO POLICE SHOOTING CASES OR ONE
OR TWO HATE CRIMES CASES THAT
SORT OF THING.
>> THE QUESTION IS IF THE
EVIDENCE DOES NOT RISE TO
REASONABLE DOUBT ISN’T THERE AN
ETHICAL STANDARD BY WHICH A
PROSECUTOR NEEDS TO MEET TO
BRING A CASE WITHOUT THAT
STANDARD IS THAT AN ETHICAL
DECISION?
>> OF COURSE.
FIRST OF ALL YOU CANNOT FILE A
CASE UNLESS YOU HAVE ENOUGH
EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE CHARGES
BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
PERIOD.
END OF STORY.
YOU HAVE AN ETHICAL OBLIGATION,
YOU HAVE A LEGAL OBLIGATION AND
I’VE NEVER DEVIATED FROM THAT.
THE DIFFERENCE IS, IF THERE IS
EVIDENCE YOU CAN’T SAY, OH, I
DON’T KNOW IF WE ARE GOING TO
WIN THIS CASE SO LET ME NOT FILE
CHARGES.
THE STANDARD IS NOT WHETHER OR
NOT YOU ARE 100% GOING TO GET A
GUILTY VERDICT.
CAN YOU NOT GUARANTEE WHAT A
JURY IS GOING TO COME BACK WITH,
EVER EVEN WITH SLAM DUNK FACTS.
BUT YOU HAVE TO GO INTO IT
KNOWING THAT YOU HAVE THE
EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE CHARGES
BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
>> JUST TO PUT A CAP ON THIS
PARTICULAR ISSUE,
PARTICULAR ISSUE,Know there were were very dangerous we have some of those in. Two thousand
nineteen the sixteen of fifty
six. That would describe where
ours and six of them were
charged with murder and the
others charged with a variety
an armed robbery cases aren’t
Jacquees sex battery meeting
rape cases except. Hold on if
you will Kathy Rundle Melba
Pearson were having a very
lively debate here live on This
Week in South Florida we’ll be
Week in South Florida we’ll be back with more in just a minute clerk of. We are back with our
mini debate between incumbent
Miami Dade state attorney
Katherine Fernandez Rundle and
challenger Melba Pearson who
worked in that office for
fifteen years now but I want to
start there you were the deputy
chief of the career criminal
division and as such you would
have been in the position to
argue vociferously for the
minimum mandatory sentences for
career criminals. Next job was
as a deputy director of the
ACLU where- an organization
that is advocating eliminating
those severe minimum
mandatories where do you stand
now on that. So first I need to
go back to one thing that my
opponent said when I made the
comments earlier I stated very
clearly I was looking at the
data between two thousand
fourteen to two thousand
eighteen having to do with
nonviolent offenses. My
opponents spoke about a whole
different year two thousand
nineteen and spoke about
violent offenses which was not
what I was addressing so I just
wanna make sure that’s clear
going back to your question
glass. I am opposed to minimum
mandatories in many cases
because of the fact that they
result in often
disproportionate outcomes when
I was assistant chief I usually
waived minimum mandatories for
the majority of cases. If there
weren’t you know some expects
after beating circumstances
that would have required that
schemes we also have to
appreciate not everybody use
cases in the same way so we
have to make sure that we’re
being equitable and again one
group of people doesn’t get a
disproportionate impact. In
comparison to other similarly
situated people so that is why
I’m definitely advocating for a
definite change in minimum
mandatories and focusing more
on restoration rehabilitation
using techniques like
restorative circles that have
proven to be very effective in
other jurisdictions. In
reducing violence and reducing
risk. Kathy Rundle this morning
the Miami Herald and here is
the editorial page of the
Herald gives you a
recommendation but it’s kind of
lukewarm here’s what they say
at one point. This is not a
full throated unequivocal
endorsement of the incumbent a
view of her twenty seven year
tenure has been at times flawed
at times infuriating. At times
befuddling she can and she must
do better. What would you say
to the borders of Miami Dade
County. Many of whom probably
agree with that assessment.
Well you know absolutely we can
always do better all of us need
to always be South examinee. On
South reflected meetings change
problems changes insidery is
impressed with office so over
the course of my career there.
In in addition to putting
together an outstanding team
that leads that office one of
the largest in the United
States twelve hundred employees
over three hundred lawyers.
Over fifty five thousand
criminal cases and an enemy of
the consequences Forsman
division that does about eighty
thousand cases and collected
over a hundred eighty two
million dollars last year we
know that we can’t stay static.
And so what I in our team do is
every year we create
TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST
TEST TEST TEST TEST
VET RAPS COURTS THE DRUG COURTS THESE ARE ALL ALTERNATIVE PATHWAYS TO INCARCERATION.
>> WE UNDERSTAND.
EXCUSE ME.
KATHY WE UNDERSTAND YOU RUN A
REALLY BIG COMPLICATED
OPERATION.
HERE IS JUST ONE SPECIFIC
FOLLOW-UP HERE TO WHAT YOU’RE
SAYING.
IN BOTH THE RAINY CASE AND THAT
OF EDWARD FOSTER THE HOMESTEAD
MAN SHOT TO DEATH FIVE YEARS
AGO, YOU HAVE SOMETIMES HAD
THESE CASES WHICH GO ON FOR
YEARS
REACH A CONCLUSION?
>> WELL, THOSE TWO CASES I COULD
CONSIDER THEM OUTLIERS I DO NOT
CONSIDER THEM TO BE THE NORMAL
AVERAGE CASE AND RAINY WAS TOO
LONG BECAUSE A BUNCH OF REASONS.
YOU KNOW A 75-PAGE REPORT IS ON
OUR WEBSITE AND YOU CAN LOOK AT
IT.
BUT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER DID NOT
MAKE ITS DETERMINATION FOR MANY
YEARS.
IN THE FOSTER CASE ONE OF THE
REASONS IT’S TAKING SO LONG IS
THAT WE WE’RE TRYING TO WORK WIT
THE DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE
FAMILY WHEN THERE IS A NEW
WITNESS WE ATTEMPT TO GET THEM
SO WE GET ALL THE EVIDENCE TO
MAKE THE DECISION NOT ON 90% OF
THE EVIDENCE.
AGAIN HAVING SAID THAT, THOSE
ARE OUTLIER CASES.
WE HAVE STREAMLINED OUR CASES,
MICHAEL AND SEEING OVER TIME
WHEN [INAUDIBLE]
WHICH IS WHAT I ADVOCATED FOR
THEY CAME IN AND STARTED DOING
THEIR INVESTIGATION OF THE
POLICE SHOOTING AND IN CUSTODY.
IT WENT FASTER AND SMOOTHER.
WE NOW HAVE COMPLETE STATUS
REPORTS SINCE 2017 ON EVERY
SINGLE ONE OF THOSE CASES WHERE
IS IT GOING WHAT IS THE STATUS
OF IT?
AND THE REPORT IS ON-LINE SO
EVERYBODY CAN SEE WHAT WE DID
AND HOW WE DID IT AND HOW WE
REACHED THE CONCLUSIONS WE DID.
>> IN THE SHORT TIME WE HAVE
LEFT, I WANT TO MAKE THE POINT
THIS IS A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY BUT
BECAUSE THERE IS NO REPUBLICAN
CANDIDATE, THIS IS A RACE OPEN
TO ALL VOTERS.
SO I WANT TO GIVE YOU BOTH A
QUICK CHANCE.
LET’S START WITH MELBA, WHAT AS
A DEMOCRATIC PROGRESSIVE
INDICATE WHAT WILL YOU
CANDIDATE, WHAT WILL YOU OFFER A
MIAMI-DADE VOTER IF YOU BECOME
STATE ATTORNEY?
>> ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE BEEN
HEARING FROM DIFFERENT FOLKS AS
I GO TO THE DIFFERENT POLLING
STATIONS AND TRAVEL ABOUT THE
COUNTY AND DO VARIOUS FORUMS
PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT
PUBLIC CORRUPTION AND THAT IS
SOMETHING THAT REALLY CONCERNS
CONSERVATIVE VOTERS AND
CONSERVATIVE VOTERS HAVE
CONCERNS ABOUT POLICING AS WELL
AS EVIDENCED BY THE DIVERSE
COALITION OF PEOPLE THAT ARE OUT
PROTESTING AND RAISING THEIR
VOICES AROUND THESE ISSUES AS
WELL AS NOT PROTESTING BUT
POSTING ON SOCIAL MEDIA OR
WRITING OP-EDS.
IT IS CLEAR THAT THE COMMUNITY
IS CONCERNED ABOUT THESE ISSUES.
AND I AM THE PERSON TO TAKE THIS
OFFICE INTO THE NEXT EIGHT
YEARS, 12 YEARS, TAKE THINGS
INTO A NEW DIRECTION AND
IMPLEMENT THE GREAT PRACTICES
THAT HAVE BEEN GOING ON ACROSS
THE COUNTRY.
I WILL SAY THIS: MY OPPONENT
HAS BEEN BUILT A FOUNDATION AND
I INTEND TO BUILD A HOUSE AND
MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR
MIAMI-DADE COUNTY IF THEY WANT A
CHANGE AND THEY ARE DISSATISFIED
SO MANY EXPRESSED THE WAY THINGS
HAVE BEEN GOING FOR THE LAST 27
YEARS.
IT’S TIME FOR A CHANGE AND
DEMAND A CHANGE AND I REPRESENT
THAT CHANGE.
>> KATHY?
>> I WOULD SAY THIS TO THE
COMMUNITY THAT IS WATCHING.
IF YOU WANT SOMEONE THAT HAS A
C.E.O., CHIEF EXECUTIVE
OFFICER’S EXPERIENCE IN MANAGING
A BIG LAW FIRM AND A CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM LEADER, THEN I
THINK THAT I AM THE ONE THAT YOU
WANT.
I AM THE ONE THAT HAS PROVEN
THAT I KNOW HOW TO REFORM LAWS.
I KNOW HOW TO BUILD A GOOD TEAM.
WE’VE REDUCED THE CRIME RATE HAD
IN DADE COUNTY BY 70%, WHICH IS
THE LOWEST IT’S BEEN IN THE LAST
30 YEARS.
THAT’S WHAT THIS COMMUNITY
WANTS.
THEY WANT TO BE SAFE.
THEY WANT TO FEEL SAFE THEY WANT
TO KNOW THAT WE’RE THE GUARDIANS
AND DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN
HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO PROTECT
THEM, THEIR FAMILIES AND THEIR
CHILDREN.
>> ALWAYS GREAT TO WATCH TWO