>>> WELCOME BACK TO "MORNING
JOE" ON A THURSDAY MORNING.
LET’S TURN TO THE DECISION TO
UPHOLD THE COMPANY’S BAN ON
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP’S
ACCOUNT.
THE 20-MEMBER BOARD MADE ITS
RULING, BUT ULTIMATELY HANDED
THE FINAL DECISION BACK TO
FACEBOOK.
THE BOARD SAID THE SOCIAL MEDIA
SITE CANNOT INVENT NEW UNWRITTEN
RULES WHEN IT SUITS THEM AND
RECOMMENDED FACEBOOK EITHER
PERMANENTLY BAN OR REINSTATE
TRUMP WITHIN SIX MONTHS.
TRUMP WAS BANNED INDEFINITELY
FOR HIS POSTS AFTER THE JANUARY
6th INSURRECTION WHERE HE
REFERRED TO MEMBERS OF THE MOB
AS SPECIAL AND PATRIOTS.
JOINING US NOW, LONG-TERM
JOURNALIST, CAROL CADWALLIGER.
SHE’S A MEMBER OF THE REAL
FACEBOOK OVERSIGHT ABORT, A
GROUP THAT CRITIQUES FACEBOOK’S
POLICIES.
CAROL, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE
RULING OF THIS, THEY CALL IT AN
INDEPENDENT BOARD, THAT HANDED
DOWN THE DECISION ABOUT DONALD
TRUMP AND BASICALLY KICKED IT
DOWN THE ROAD A BIT AND SAID,
AFTER SIX MONTHS, IT’S UP TO
YOU, FACEBOOK.
>> I’M REALLY GLAD THAT YOU
CALLED IT SEMI-INDEPENDENT AND
THEY CALL IT INDEPENDENT,
BECAUSE, OF COURSE, IT’S NOT AN
INDEPENDENT BOARD.
IT’S A BOARD THAT WAS SET UP BY
FACEBOOK.
THEY MADE ITS TERMS OF
REFERENCE.
AND THEY WERE ESSENTIALLY TRYING
TO HAVE THIS EXTERNAL BODY,
WHERE THEY COULD SHOVE OFF THE
MOST DIFFICULT DECISIONS IT
DIDN’T WANT TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH
AND LET SOMEBODY ELSE TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM,
ESSENTIALLY.
AND WHAT WE’VE HAD IS THIS
SITUATION WHERE THIS BOARD HAS
COME BACK AND SAID, ACTUALLY,
THIS IS ON YOU.
YOU’VE GOT TO TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY AND THEY JUST
KICKED IT RIGHT BACK AT THEM.
AND YOU KNOW, IN MANY WAYS, I
THINK THAT IS -- THIS IS A GOOD
THING IN THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS
TOTAL DENIAL OF FACEBOOK TO JUST
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT
GOES ON ON ITS PLATFORMS IS, YOU
KNOW, WE’VE JUST SEEN IT TIME
AND TIME AGAIN.
AND THIS IS A -- YOU KNOW, THIS
IS A SORT OF HUGE EXAMPLE OF IT.
SO IT’S SORT OF -- I MEAN, IT’S
A RIDICULOUS AND SORT OF
SLIGHTLY FARCICAL SITUATION, BUT
IT IS QUITE HELPFUL IN THAT IT
TURNS THE ATTENTION BACK ON TO
FACEBOOK.
BUT WHAT’S REALLY UNHELPFUL, I
THINK, ABOUT IT, IS THAT IT’S A
KIND OF SIDE SHOW GOING ON, THAT
TAKES -- THAT DISTRACTS
ATTENTION FROM ACTUALLY, YOU
KNOW, THE REAL DANGERS OF
FACEBOOK.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT, I’VE BEEN
THINKING ABOUT IT THIS MORNING
AND ACTUALLY LISTENING TO THE
CONVERSATION THAT YOU’VE JUST
BEEN HAVING ABOUT JANUARY 26th,
I THINK IS REALLY, REALLY
IMPORTANT IN THIS CONTEXT.
BECAUSE I THINK WHAT’S GOING ON
HERE IS ALLOWING FACEBOOK ONCE
AGAIN NOT TO OWN UP TO ITS
COMPLICITY IN WHAT HAPPENED.
AND ESSENTIALLY, I FIND IT --
YOU KNOW, THEY’RE MAKING THIS
ALL ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.
WHAT DO WE DO?
HOW DO WE SOLVE A PROBLEM LIKE
DONALD TRUMP?
AND ACTUALLY, THE QUESTION THAT
FACEBOOK SHOULD BE ASKING IS,
HOW DO WE SOLVE A PROBLEM LIKE
FACEBOOK, I THINK.
>> SO CAROLE, ALL OF THAT LAST
COMMENT THAT YOU MADE, IT STRUCK
ME AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
YESTERDAY THAT THE BUILDUP TO
THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT WE ALL
HEARD AND SHARED AND ARE TALKING
ABOUT NOW, THE BUILDUP TO THAT
ANNOUNCEMENT IS THAT A SEPARATE
GOVERNMENT WAS GOING TO MAKE A
STATEMENT AND IT WAS COVERED AS
IF FACEBOOK WAS A SEPARATE
GOVERNMENT.
AND PERHAPS FACEBOOK DOES HAVE
THE POWER OF A SEPARATE
GOVERNMENT.
BUT MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, AND
IT GETS TO THE POINT THAT YOU
JUST RAISED, HOW IS IT THAT WITH
ALL OF THIS CONTROVERSY OVER SO
MANY MONTHS, YEARS, ACTUALLY,
HOW IS IT THAT MARK ZUCKERBERG
AND SHERYL SANDBERG SKATE AWAY
FROM RESPONSIBILITY EVERY SINGLE
TIME?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU’VE JUST
HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD SO
ACUTELY THERE, I THINK.
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THIS
ENDEAVOR IS ALL ABOUT.
THAT IT’S -- IT SETS UP A VERY
GRANDIOSE BOARD.
IT PAYS A LOT OF MONEY.
IT’S GOT SOME REALLY INCREDIBLE
PEOPLE ONBOARD, AND IT’S
CLOAKING IT, IT’S DRESSING IN
THIS SORT OF JUDICIAL WRAPPER.
IT CALLED IT A SUPREME COURT.
AND THAT IS A WAY, AS YOU SAY,
OF TAKING THE SPOTLIGHT OFF MARK
ZUCKERBERG AND SHERYL SANDBERG,
WHICH IS WHERE IT SHOULD BE, AND
OFF ON TO THIS SORT OF SIDE SHOW
GOING ON OVER HERE.
AND SO, I’M -- YOU KNOW, I THINK
YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT THAT
IT IS THAT ENDEAVOR, IT’S A WAY
OF MAKING THAT CONCRETE, GIVING
US ALL SOMETHING ELSE TO FOCUS
ON, WHEN WHAT WE SHOULD BE
TALKING ABOUT HERE IS MARK
ZUCKERBERG AND HIS FAILURE TO --
HIS FAILURE TO SORT OF LIKE TAKE
CONTROL OF HIS PLATFORM AND
STOP, YOU KNOW, THESE INCREDIBLY
DANGEROUS AND MALIGNANT
ACTIVITIES, WHICH WE KNOW ARE
GOING ON ON IT RIGHT NOW.
AND THAT WE SAW COME A HEAD SO
ACUTELY ON JANUARY 26thTHE 6th.
AND THAT IS WHERE OUR ATTENTION
NEEDS TO BE.
AND AS I SAY, I THINK THE REAL
ISSUE HERE AND I THINK THIS
BOARD DID LIKE -- THEY HAVE
COME -- THEY HAVE -- THEY DID
IDENTIFY IT IN A WAY, BECAUSE
FACEBOOK WOULDN’T -- THEY ASKED
FACEBOOK QUESTIONS ABOUT TRUMP
POSTS AND ABOUT THE ALGORITHMS
AND ABOUT THE ACTIVITIES AROUND
JANUARY THE 6th AND FACEBOOK
DIDN’T ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.
SO IT WOULDN’T EVEN ANSWER THE
QUESTIONS FOR THE BOARD THAT IT
ITSELF HAD SET UP.
BUT IT’S BECAUSE I THINK IT
REALLY IS, IT’S COMPLICIT.
FACEBOOK WAS COMPLICIT IN WHAT
HAPPENED.
AND IT HASN’T RECKONED WITH
THAT.
AND IT’S REFUSING TO RECKON WITH
THAT.
>> AND MARA GAY, DONALD TRUMP IS
CLAIMING MARTYRDOM, AT LEAST FOR
ANOTHER SIX MONTHS OVER THIS
DECISION, BUT OBVIOUSLY, HE
WOULD LIKE AND NEED NOTHING MORE
THAN TO BE BACK ON FACEBOOK, A
PLATFORM WHERE HE RAISES A LOT
OF MONEY AND PUSHES OUT HIS
MESSAGE.
>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, MY QUESTION
FOR CAROLE, JUST TO TURN THIS
BACK ON YOU, HOW DO YOU SOLVE A
PROBLEM LIKE FACEBOOK?
HOW DO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THINK
ABOUT THIS?
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
ACCOUNTABILITY, WHY DO THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE NEED TO RELY ON
A SEMI-DIDN’T BOARD TO BRING
THAT?
IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE TO DO?
WHAT IS THE ROLE FOR CONGRESS,
FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION
HERE, WITHOUT GETTING TOO
POLITICAL, IF POSSIBLE?
>> LOOK, WE CAN’T RELY UPON THIS
BOARD.
THIS IS -- YOU KNOW, THIS IS --
IT’S LIKE, YOU KNOW, USING AN
EXAMPLE.
IT’S LIKE PHILLIP MORRIS SETTING
UP THE INDEPENDENT TOBACCO BOARD
AND SAYING, IT’S FINE, THEY’RE
GOING TO SELL WHO WE SELL
CIGARETTES TO.
NO, THAT IS NOT FINE.
WE KNOW THIS IS JUST A WAY OF
AVOIDING THE FACT THAT THEY
CAUSE CANCER.
AND YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY, WHAT
FACEBOOK IS DOING IS CAUSING
CANCER.
AND WHAT IS ESSENTIAL FOR THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE IS TO RECOGNIZE
THAT AND TO RECOGNIZE THAT YOU
HAVE AN URGENT, CRITICAL PROBLEM
HERE.
AND YOU HAVE TO LEGISLATE.
YOU HAVE TO TAKE REALLY TOUGH
DECISIONS.
AND THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO BE
FOCUSED ON RIGHT NOW.
SO FORGET THIS SIDE SHOW, OKAY?
YOU KNOW, THEY’VE MADE SOME
RECOMMENDATIONS.
GREAT, LET ME GET ON WITH IT.
BUT WHAT YOU NEED TO BE FOCUSED
ON IS THE FACT THAT THIS COMPANY
THAT HAS FAR, FAR TOO MUCH
POWER, WHICH HAS FAR, FAR TOO
MUCH INFLUENCE IN YOUR PUBLIC
DISCOURSE AND WHAT HAPPENS IN
YOUR POLITICS, THIS NEEDS TO BE
DEALT WITH NOW, BECAUSE
OTHERWISE YOU’LL BE IN EXACTLY
THE SAME SITUATION IN FOUR
YEARS’ TIME.
AND MAYBE THE INSURRECTION WON’T
BE THWARTED NEXT TIME.
YOU KNOW, IT WAS -- YOU KNOW,
YOU THINK ABOUT HOW CLOSE YOU
WERE AND YOU THINK ABOUT THE
ROLE THAT FACEBOOK PLAYED IN
THAT, AND YOU THINK ABOUT THE
FACT THAT FACEBOOK IS NOW TRYING
TO COVER THAT UP, YOU KNOW,
THEY’VE DONE AN INTERNAL REPORT,
BUT THEY DIDN’T RELEASE THAT,
THEY’RE NOT EVEN LETTING THE
EMPLOYEES READ IT.
THEY KNOW THAT STOP THE STEAL
WAS ORGANIZED ON FACEBOOK.
THEY KNOW THAT.
AND I THINK THIS IS -- LET’S USE
THIS MOMENT AS A WAKE-UP CALL IN
THAT YOU HAVE TO LEGISLATE, YOU
HAVE TO REGULATE, YOU HAVE TO