JOINING OUR COVERAGE, OUR GOOD
FRIEND NIGOR IS BACK.
IGOR, I HAVE TO PLAY SOMETHING
YOU SAID ON THE SHOW, BECAUSE
WHEN YOU SAID IT, SOME PEOPLE
THAT WERE ON AFTERWARDS WERE
TAKEN ABACK BY THE WORDS HE
USED, BUT NOW I DON'T THINK
ANYONE IS.
LET'S PLAY THAT FIRST.
>> I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING
ON.
PEOPLE THINK IT'S SOME SORT OF
WAY TO TRY TO BUILD BACK THE
U.S.
FOR PRESIDENT PUTIN,
UNDOUBTEDLY, THIS IS A WAR OF
GENOCIDE AGAINST THE UKRAINE
PEOPLE, THE PEOPLE WHO PERFORM
GENOCIDE, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
LIVING PROOF TO THE RUSSIAN
PEOPLE AND THE PEOPLE AROUND THE
WORLD.
>> GENOCIDE IS THE WORD THAT
YOUR PRESIDENT USED YESTERDAY AT
THIS HOUR.
IT'S BEING DEBATED BY SENIOR
WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS TO
DESCRIBE THEM AS BAR CRIMES.
TELL ME WHAT THE WORLD WOKE UP
TO TODAY AND WHAT YOU WOKE UP TO
TODAY IN YOUR COUNTRY.
>> WE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON
FROM PRETTY MUCH DAY ONE,
BECAUSE, LIKE, WHEN YOU'RE
LIVING IN THE COUNTRY OF
UKRAINE, EVERYONE KNOWS SOMEONE.
THERE IS A LOT OF CHATTER AND
COMMUNICATION GOING ON AND THE
ROOM IS TOO STRESSED.
SECONDLY, THAT'S NOT -- I OPENLY
SPEAK ABOUT THIS.
I EXPLAINED TO MY WIFE THAT THIS
IS HAPPENING AND WE DECIDED ON
STAYING WHERE WE ARE.
WE WERE LUCKY IN THE SENSE OF
THE RUSSIAN FORCES DIDN'T GET TO
WHERE WE ARE, BUT WE WERE IN ONE
OF THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACES, SO
IT'S AN UPSCALE NEIGHBORHOOD AND
YOU LIKELY WOULD HAVE SEEN ALL
OF IT, LOOTING, RAPING, MURDERS.
AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, I'M THE
FOREIGN AFFAIRS ADVISER TO THE
PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE WHOM PUTIN
HOLDS AS A NAZI, SO I'M PRETTY
SURE I WAS HIGH UP ON THAT LIST.
I WASN'T SURPRISED, AND
UNFORTUNATELY, AND THE SECOND
POINT I WANT TO MAKE, THIS IS
JUST THE OF IMAGES, DEFINITELY
IT'S INCREDIBLY DISTURBING, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, IN TERMS OF
UNFORTUNATELY, IN TERMS OF
NUMBERS, I THINK BUCHA IS ONE OF
THE SMALLER INCIDENCES IN
BEHAVIOR.
WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE OF THAT,
AND I DON'T EVEN WANT TO THINK
ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN
MARIUPOL THAT'S LEVEL TO THE
GROUND WITH THIS POPULATION AND
PLACES LIKE KHERSON.
YOU HAVE TO REALIZE HOW BRAVE
THOSE PEOPLE ARE IN RUSSIA AND
KHERSON.
WHEN THEY COME UNARMED TO
PROTEST AGAINST RUSSIA EVERY
SINGLE DAY KNOWING PROBABLY AT
NIGHT SOME OF THEM ARE BEING
ABDUCTED AND SHOT IN THE BACK OF
THE HEAD.
>> YOUR FOREIGN MINISTER MADE
SOME OF THESE SAME POINTS YOU'RE
MAKING.
LET ME PLAY THAT AND WE'LL GO
FROM HERE.
>> YOU'VE SEEN THE HORRORS THAT
WE'VE SEEN IN BUCHA AND THEY'RE
JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG OF
ALL THE CRIMES THAT HAVE BEEN
COMMITTED BY RUSSIAN ARMY IN THE
TERRITORY OF UKRAINE SO FAR.
I CAN TELL YOU WITHOUT
EXAGGERATION BUT WITH GREAT
SORROW THAT THE SITUATION IN
MARIUPOL IS MUCH WORSE COMPARED
TO WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN BUCHA AND
OTHERS, TOWNS AND VILLAGES IN
NEARBY KYIV.
I DEMAND FROM OUR PARTNERS ON
BEHALF OF THE VICTIMS OF BUCHA
AND THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE TO
TAKE THE MOST SEVERE SANCTIONS
AGAINST RUSSIA THIS WEEK.
THIS IS NOT THE REQUEST OF
UKRAINE'S FOREIGN MINISTER.
THIS IS THE PLEA OF THE VICTIMS
OF RAPE, TORTURE AND KILLINGS,
THEIR RELATIVES AND THE ENTIRE
UKRANIAN NATION.
>> YOU SAID AT THE BEGINNING
THAT THIS IS THE CONVERSATION
YOU AND YOUR WIFE HAVE HAD
PRIVATELY ABOUT WHAT YOU MIGHT
FACE.
I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT
WAS REPORTED TO HERE IN OUR
AMERICAN PRESS.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE
REFERRING TO TO BEING ON THE
SHORT LIST OF BEING TARGETED.
TELL ME HOW YOU'RE FEELING ABOUT
THE DECISION TO STAY IN LIGHT OF
THE WORLD SEEING THE BRUTALITY
AND THE HORRORS THAT PEOPLE LIKE
YOU HAVE ENDURED.
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I MEAN,
WE DO HAVE THAT SMALL SENSE OF,
LIKE, A SMALL VICTORY WE'VE
ACHIEVED, SO AT THE MOMENT, KYIV
IS SAFE AND OUR AREA IS SAFE.
THERE IS NO NEED FOR ME TO TROLL
AT NIGHT, AND THERE ARE HARDLY
ANY EXPLOSIONS.
I THINK THE LAST ONE WAS
YESTERDAY AND IT WAS ANTI HIFR
ANTI-AIRCRAFT FIRE.
THAT'S THE POSITIVE SIDE, BUT
THE NEGATIVE SIDE IS THE
EMOTIONAL EXHAUSTION.
MY WIFE HIDES SECRETCRIES SECRET
SHE HIDES IN ONE OF THE ROOMS
AND CRIES.
I ASK HER WHY AND SHE SAYS, HOW
ELSE DO YOU PROCESS SOMETHING AS
HORRIFIC AS THIS?
TO BE HONEST, IT WILL ONLY GET
WORSE BECAUSE ONE CAN DEAL WITH
EXPLOSIONS, ONE CAN DEAL WITH
PHYSICAL THREATS, BUT THE
PSYCHOLOGICAL THREATS ARE WAY
WORSE.
I THINK OUR COUNTRY WILL NEED TO
DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE
THERE WILL BE A LOT OF PEOPLE
WHO WILL HAVE MAJOR
PSYCHOLOGICAL EXHAUSTION.
AND WHILE ON THAT NOTE, I KNOW
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT,
BECAUSE I HAVE STUDIED RUSSIAN
PROPAGANDA FOR A WHILE, AND I
THINK RUSSIA WILL DIVERT
ATTENTION, MISLEAD THE GLOBAL
INTELLIGENCE IN TERMS OF WHAT'S
HAPPENED IN BUCHA AND OTHER
PLACES.
LOOK OUT FOR THOSE NARRATIVE
AMPLIFIERS.
TO BOOST THOSE MESSAGES TO SAY
WHAT IF IT'S ALL STAGED?
>> WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE FRINGES
WHO MAKE THOSE SORTS OF
ALLEGATIONS ABOUT THE MOST
HEINOUS TRAGEDIES IN THIS
COUNTRY, TOO, BUT WE WILL
CONSIDER US TO BE WARNED.
BECAUSE YOU SHARED WITH US, I
HAVE TO ASK HOW YOUR DAUGHTERS
ARE DOING.
>> MY DAUGHTERS ARE TIRED AS
WELL.
MASHA IS LEARNING ENGLISH, SO
SHE'S TWO AND A HALF AND SHE'S
GROWN CLOSER TO ME OVER THE LAST MONTH THAN SHE'S EVER BEEN.
MONTH THAN SHE'S EVER BEEN.
IT'S DIFFICULT FOR TEENAGER, SH
SOCIAL MEDIA, SHE SEES THE
PICTURE.
KEEP YOUR CHILDREN AWAY FROM THE
SCREENS.
SHE'S LIVING THROUGH THAT, AND I
THINK WE'RE COMING TO A POINT
OF, IF IT TURNS OUT TO A WAR OF
ATTRITION, I MAY BE SENDING MY
FAMILY AWAY FOR A BREAK OUT OF
KYIV, BECAUSE IT'S INCREDIBLY
DIFFICULT.
>> WHAT IS THE SENSE OF WHAT
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY CAN DO FOR
THE PEOPLE TRAPPED IN MARIUPOLED
FOR THE VICTIMS?
I KNOW HE WAS IN BUCHA TODAY,
BUT TELL US WHAT THE SORT OF THE
SENSE IS HOW REGIONALIZED THE WAR HAS BECOME NOW.
WAR HAS BECOME NOW.
>> I WOULDN'T CHARACTERIZE IT AS
REGIONALIZED
REGIONALIZED.
WE HAVE FUNCTIONING CLOSE TO
NIKOLAI.
THERE IS HEAVY FIGHTING IN
DONBAS.
I GET DAILY UPDATES IF YOU KNOW
WHAT'S GOING ON THERE, AND IT'S
NOT PRETTY.
IT'S NOT ONLY ABOUT MARIUPOL,
AND THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH A
MILITARY CONSIDER DO.
>> YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING OUR
HARDEST BUT WE NEED THE HELP
FROM ANYTHING THAT COULD BE
DONE.
THERE ARE STILL 135,000 LEFT OF
THEM THERE.
THE WORST FOR ME IS TO REALIZE
ONCE THE TOUR IS OVER, I THINK
THE CIVILIAN DEATH TOLL OF THIS
WAR WILL SHAKE EVERYONE BEYOND BELIEF.
>> IT'S UNTHINKABLE BEFORE YOU
SEE WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING.
I ASKED YOU THIS LAST TIME HOW
YOU WERE DOING, AND YOU SAID AT
THE VERY END THAT YOU WERE
TIRED.
IT SEEMS THAT THIS IS THE
RUSSIAN STRATEGY, TO TERRORIZE
AND EXHAUST THE ENTIRE
UKRAINIANS POPULATION.
AND YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S NOT
REGIONAL.
YOUR ENTIRE COUNTRY IS BEING
TERRORIZED AND ASSAULTED AND
UNDER THREAT.
BUT I WAS ONLY REFERRING TO THE
FACT THAT YOU SAID THERE ARE
FEWER EXPLOSIONS OUTSIDE OF YOUR
HOME NEAR KYIV.
WHAT DOES THIS -- I JUST WANT TO
MAKE SURE WE DON'T INACCURATELY
DESCRIBE WHAT THE RUSSIANS ARE
DOING RIGHT NOW.
WHAT DOES THIS REDEPLOYMENT OR
REFOCUSING ON DONBAS OR THE EASTERN PART OF YOUR COUNTRY
EASTERN PART OF YOUR COUNTRY
MEAN FOR YOUR COUNTRY?
>> FOR OUR COUNTRY IT DOESN'T
CHANGE ANYTHING, THERE IS JUST A
CHANGE IN THE WAR STRATEGY.
WHEN PUTIN ENTERED UKRAINE, I
THINK HE HAD HIS OWN PROPAGANDA.
HE GENERALLY BELIEVED THE
SUPPORT FOR RUSSIA IS GREAT
WITHIN UKRAINE, AND HE USED THAT
MILITARY ORCHESTRA ON THE
VICTORY DAY PARADE LIKE ON THREE
DAYS IN KYIV FOR EVERYONE TO
DISAGREE WITH THAT.
THEY WERE ON NEARLY EVERY ENVOY
THAT ENTERED UKRAINE.
THOSE WERE FOR US.
MOST OF THE COUNTRY IS AGAINST
PUTIN AND MOST OF THE COUNTRY IS
FOR FREEDOM AND LIBERTY.
NOW PUTIN IS APPROACHING THIS
WAR DIFFERENTLY.
HE'S TURNING IT INTO A WAR OF
ATTRITION.
HE'S NARROWING OUR FOCUS TO MORE
MILITARY TARGETS.
HE'S ALSO WAITING FOR EVERYONE
TO GET EXHAUSTED.
FOR OUR ECONOMY, FOR THE WEST,
THE GAS PROBLEM, WHEN THAT'S
GOING TO -- WHEN THAT STRATEGY WORKS, YOU'LL HEAR WEAK VOICES