GOOD EVENING. I'M CHRIS MATTHEWS IN
WASHINGTON. DONALD TRUMP'S TRUMP ISN'T THE
PEOPLE HE'S HIRED. IT'S THE ENEMY IN HIS OWN BRAIN
HE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIRE. HOW HE WANTS TO STOP THE WARRING
IN THE WHITE HOUSE BETWEEN NATIONALIST AND TRUMP IN BED,
JARED KUSHNER IGNORES THE FACT THAT THIS IS GOING ON IN TRUMP'S
OWN HEAD. AND PEOPLE STARTING WITH HIS
FAMILY HAS TO DEAL WITH NOW THAT HE'S PRESIDENT.
THE FIGHT IS REAL AND ISN'T GOING TO END HOW MANY BURY THE
HATCHET MEETINGS THEY HOLD. THE FACT IS AS WE'VE SEEN FROM
THE OUTSIDE, THERE WERE THREE DIFFERENT PARTIES ALL JOCKING
FOR PARTY INSIDE TRUMP'S WHITE HOUSE.
THE NATIONALISTS REPRESENTED BY STEVEN BANNON.
THE FAMILY PARTY REPRESENTED BY JARED KUSHNER AND OTHERS CLOSE
TO HIM, THEY ARE MOSTLY NEW YORK BUSINESS PEOPLE AND NOT VERY
IDEOLOGICAL. PEOPLE LIKE CHIEF OF STAFF
REINCE PRIEBUS. NOW AN OPEN DISPUTE AND IT'S ALL
PLAYING OUT VERY PUBLICLY THANKS TO AN ABUNDANCE OF LEAKS FROM
INSIDE THEDE THE WEST WING, LEAT NEVER STOPPED.
SEAN SPICER ADDRESSED THOSE REPORTS.
>> THE REASON THE PRESIDENT HAS BROUGHT THIS TEAM TOGETHER IS
OFFER DIVERSE SET OF OPINIONS. HE DOESN'T WANT A MONO LIT CAL
KIND OF THOUGHT PROCESS GOING THROUGH THE WHITE HOUSE.
THAT -- HE IS THE DECIDER. I THINK THE PRESIDENT WANTS TO
HAVE A SERIES OF IDEAS AND THOUGHTS PUT FORWARD TO HIM.
THAT'S HOW HE'S GOING TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION POSSIBLE FOR
THIS COUNTRY. >> HE SAID THE "IS CONFIDENT IN
THE TEAM HE HAS. >> WE UNDERSTAND WHO HAVE SOME
SMART INDIVIDUALS BUT THERE ARE BATTLES IN OUR POLICY
DIFFERENCES NEED TO BE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
WE NEED TO FOCUS AND ULTIMATELY ALL COME UP TO COMMIT TO THE
PRESIDENT'S AGENDA. >> KEEPING IT BEHIND CLOSED
DOORS, HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, SOURCES
CLOSE TO BANNON SAID HE'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE, HIS MESSAGE,
DEMOCRATS WILL NEVER RUN THE WHITE HOUSE, THAT'S A REFERENCE
TO JARED IMES LYDTH MR.N H BE
WER C HN. PO Q ASE
OF TNGUT BANN'S OPEN REVOLT AGAINST TRUMP'S
SON-IN-LAW JARED KUSHNER. FOR A SEVENGALI, THAT DOESN'T
SEEM LIKE A SMART THING TO DO. THE PRESIDENT IS CONSIDERING A
MAJOR SHAKEUP IN THE WEST WING. TWO PEOPLE CLOSE TO THE WHITE
HOUSE SAID MR. TRUMP HAS BEEN TALKING TO CONFIDANTS ABOUT MR.
PRIEBUS'S PERFORMANCE AND HAS ASKED FOR NAMES FOR POSSIBLE
REPLACEMENTS. JOINING ME RIGHT NOW IS KRISTIN
WALKER, THE "NEW YORK TIMES," AND USA TODAY SUSAN PAGE.
SOMEONE SAID NO ONE IS EVER LATE IN THIS TOWN FOR A HANGING.
WE DO ENJOY IT. JARED KUSHNER WILL ALWAYS BE THE
SON-IN-LAW, I GUESS. HE'S IN BED WITH THE TRUMP
FAMILY. HE KNOW WHAT IS THEY'RE
THINKING, HE'S ONE OF THEM. WHY WOULD TRUMP BREAK THE
NEPOTISM RULE YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSE TO BRING FAMILY PEOPLE IN, BRING
THEM IN AND SET THEM DOWN IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION WITH HIS
NATIONALIST, THAT'S JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE AND TO ME IT
REFLECTS THE TROUBLE INSIDE TRUMP'S BRAIN.
HE CAN'T DECIDE WHETHER HE'S A NATIONALIST, IDLE LOG OR HE
WANTS TO GET RE-ELECTED. >> I THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON
THE HEAD, THEY REFLECT THE TWO SIDES OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S OWN
THINKING. STEVE BANNON IS A REAL TOUCH
STONE TO THE BASE, THE POPULACE MESSAGE THAT HELPED TO GET
PRESIDENT TRUMP ELECTED. THAT'S WHY YOU SEE HIM DIGGING
IN RIGHT NOW. HE KNOWS THAT HIS SON-IN-LAW,
THE PRESIDENT'S SON-IN-LAW CAN'T GET FIRED.
AT THE SAME TIME HE SEES HIS JOB AS SAFE BECAUSE HE THINKS HE'S
THE PERSON WHO HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND REMINDS HIM OF ALL OF THOSE
CAMPAIGN PROMISES. ON THE OTHER HAND I THINK THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP UNDERSTANDS THE NECESSITY OF HAVING SOMEONE LIKE
JARED KUSHNER TO TEMPER WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL IS A MUCH
MORE CONSERVATIVE POPULACE MESSAGE, NATIONALIST MESSAGE, IF
YOU WILL, BY STEVE BANNON. THAT'S HOW THIS WORKS IN TERMS
OF WHERE THESE TENSIONS STAND RIGHT NOW.
I THINK THEY'RE FACING THAT FIRST 100-DAY PARK.
I THINK THEY'RE STAIRING IT DOWN.
THEY KNOW THEY WANT THE HEADLINES OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL
DAYS AND WEEKS TO BE POSITIVE SO THAT BIG HEADLINE, WHETHER HE
REACHES THAT 100-DAY MARK IS POSITIVE.
I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING ALL SIDES PUBLICLY TONE IT DOWN
A LITTLE BIT. I THINK YOU'RE ALSO RIGHT, STEVE
BANNON IS NOT DOING TO CHANGE HIS VIEWS AN JARED KUSHNER ISN'T
GOING TO BAG DOWN EITHER, CHRIS. >> YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO
FIGHT, THERE ARE MILITARYIST, SOME SAY THIS IS CRAZY, GOING TO
WAR WITH THE UNITED STATES IS CRAZY.
WE'RE DOING TO LOSE. HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THEM.
YOU'VE GOT SON-IN-LAW WHO LOOKS LIKE A PRINCE.
HE'S BEEN WELL TENDED TO GROWING UP.
THEY LOOK LIKE WHAT THEY ARE. THEY'RE BOTH IN TRUMP'S HEAD.
>> THE PROBLEM IS, IT'S NOT THAT THEY DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER, THEY
HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ON WHAT THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT, WHAT THEY
SHOULD -- WHAT POLICIES HE SHOULD PURSUE, THEY ALSO
DIFFERENT ATTITUDES OF HOW YOU GET TO WHERE YOU NEED TO GO.
STEVE BANNON DESCRIBES HIMSELF AS DISRUPTER.
THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. >> LOOK AT THAT GUY.
HE'S A GUY WHO WANTS TO WORK IN THE SYSTEM.
HE'S SMOOTH NEGOTIATOR. THEY'RE DIFFERENT WHENT WHERE T
WANT TO GO AND HOW THEY THINK THEY AUTO GET THERE.
>> HE'S NEVER HAD A HANG OVER OR FISTFIGHT IN THE SCHOOLYARD.
WHAT DO YOU THINK, I KNOW YOU'VE HAD BOTH?
JUST GUESSING. JUST KIDDING.
>> I THINK JARED KUSHNER IS WHERE TRUMP IS FROM, WHICH IS
THE WORLD OF FINANCE AND REAL ESTATE AND MANHATTAN HIGH
SOCIETY. AND STEVE BANNON IS WHERE HE GOT
TO, WHICH IS THIS NATIONALISTIC IMPULSE IN AMERICAN POLITICS.
I THINK THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS THAT BANNON HAS A SET OF POLICY
PRIORITIES AND KUSHNER HAS A ROLE AND TURF.
BUT IT'S VERY DIFFERENT. KUSHNER, I DON'T THINK HE'S
PURSUING A PARTICULAR DISCRETE SET OF POLICIES THAT YOU OR EYE
CAN DESCRIBE OR IDENTIFY. I'VE NOT HEARD HIM TALK A LOT
ABOUT SPECIFIC POLICY ISSUES THAT HE'S INVESTED IN.
HE'S STRETCHED SO THIN AND HIS JOB APPEARS TO BE MOSTLY TO
REPRESENT THE PRESIDENT. BUT BANNON HAS A PARTICULAR
WORLD VIEW AND A SET OF ISSUES HE CARES ABOUT ON ISIS, ON
TRADE, ON MANUFACTURING. AND THERE'S A CERTAIN POWER IN
HAVING THAT KIND OF FOCUS, CHRIS.
>> WELL, THE -- CHRIS LET'S BRING IT BACKACK TO YOU.
THE POLITICS -- I MEAN THE PEOPLE THAT GOT HIM ELECTED WERE
NOT JARED KUSHNER AND IVANKA. WHAT BROUGHT HIM TO THE WHITE
HOUSE WAS THIS NATIONALIST ABOUT LOSING STRUL JOBS, UPSET ABOUT
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, STUPID WARS, ISSUES THAT GRABBED THE
WHITE MIDDLE CLASS RIGHT IN THEIR GUT.
WHY IS HE LISTENING TO JARED KUSHNER NOW, IS IT JUST FAMILY?
WHY DOESN'T HE LISTEN TO BANNON. HE'S THE BULLET TRAIN THAT TOOK
HIM HERE. >> IT'S PARTIALLY FAMILY,
REMEMBER HIS OTHER CLOSEST ADVISER IS HIS DAUGHTER.
I THINK HE TRUSTS JARED KUSHNER AND IVANKA IMPLICITLY.
HE TRUST STEVE BANNON, AS YOU POINT OUT, HIS VIEWPOINT IS
REALLY WHAT HELPED HIM GET TO THE WHITE HOUSE IN THE FIRST
PLACE. THAT'S WHY I DON'T THINK HE'S
NECESSARILY IMMINENT. I THINK THAT THE PRESIDENT IS
LIKELY TAKING A HARD LOOK AT HIS ENTIRE STAFF RIGHT NOW, BUT WHAT
WE ALSO KNOW IS THAT STEVE BANNON'S WORLD SEEMS TO BE
LIMITED TO SOMETHING, INSTEAD, OF COURSE HE WAS TAKEN OFF THE
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL. WE SEE JARED KUSHNER'S ROLE
EXPANDING. HE'S BEEN GIVEN NEW DUTIES AND
HE WAS IN IRAQ JUST LAST WEEK, KIND OF ASSESSING THE SITUATION
ON THE GROUND. SO IT -- WHAT IT SEEMS TO BE IF
YOU READ IT, THE PRESIDENT IS TAKING A HARD LOOK AT HIS ENTIRE
TEAM AND ASSESSING IF THEY'RE IN THE RIGHT PLACES.
AND IF IT MAKES SINCE TO HAVE THESE TWO SQUARING OFF ON WHOLE
HOST OF POLICY ISSUES ALL OF THE TIME.
I CAN TELL YOU, STEVE BANNON ISN'T BACKING DOWN FROM THIS.
AND IF YOU TALK TO FOLKS WHO ARE CLOSE TO HIM, HE THINKS HE'S
WINNING THIS FIGHT. AND AS YOU POINT OUT, CHRIS, HE
WELCOMES A GOOD FIGHT, A GOOD ONE.
HE'S THE ONE USING ALL OF THESE WAR TERMS AND THROWING THE BOMB.
HE'S NOT BACKING DOWN.