>>> WELCOME BACK TO "VELSHI & RUHLE."
RUHLE." FORMER STARBUCKS CEO HOWARD
SCHULTZ IS EXPLORING AN
INDEPENDENT RUN FOR THE
PRESIDENCY IN 2020 AND HE JOINS
US NOW TO TALK ABOUT IT.
>> WELCOME, YOU ARE A FORMER
BUSINESSMAN.
BUSINESSMAN. WE LOVE TALKING BUSINESS HERE.
AND SO I HAVE TO START ON THE
ECONOMY.
ECONOMY. WE’VE MENTIONED IT EARLIER,
THERE WAS A PIECE TODAY TALKING
ABOUT HOW THE PERCENTAGE OF
CHILDREN WHO GROW UP TODAY TO
EARN MORE THAN THEIR PARENTS HAS
FALLEN FROM 90% IN 1970 TO 50%
TODAY.
TODAY. THIS WHILE THE STOCK MARKET IS A
STONE’S THROW FROM HITTING AN
ALL-TIME HIGH, UNEMPLOYMENT IS
AT RECORD LOWS.
HELP US UNDERSTAND, WHAT DOES
THE ECONOMY LOOK LIKE, BECAUSE
THIS CALL FOR SOCIALISM, WHICH
YOU DON’T SUPPORT, ISN’T COMING
OFF NOWHERE.
OFF NOWHERE. >> I THINK IT’S AN INTERESTING
QUESTION BECAUSE THE ECONOMY IS
BUYER INDICATED.
BUYER INDICATED. FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE A
PRESIDENT WHO’S USED THE STOCK
MARKET AS A PROXY FOR THE
ECONOMY.
ECONOMY. WE ALL KNOW THAT’S NOT TRUE, NOT
ACCURATE, NOT FAIR.
AND AT THE SAME TIME HE’S TRYING
TO CONTROL THE FED.
SOMETHING THAT NO AMERICAN
SHOULD STAND FOR.
BUT THE REAL ISSUE IN THE
ECONOMY THAT NO ONE SEEMS TO BE
TALKING ABOUT THAT I HAVE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT FOR TWO YEARS NOW
IS $22 TRILLION IN NATIONAL DEBT
AND $500 BILLION IN INTEREST
EXPENSE.
EXPENSE. AND WHAT I WOULD ASK A
RHETORICAL QUESTION, FOR ALL THE
DEMOCRATS WHO ARE RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT WHO HAVE BEEN IN
NATIONAL OFFICE, WHERE HAVE THEY
BEEN ON THIS TERRIBLE, TRAGIC
ISSUE THAT’S FACING EVERY
AMERICAN?
AMERICAN? AND IN TERMS OF CHILDREN AND
GRANDCHILDREN, THIS NATIONAL
DEBT IS IMMORAL BECAUSE IT’S
GOING TO BE ON THE BACKS OF THEM
FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICA.
THIS IS A NATIONAL SECURITY
ISSUE.
ISSUE. >> CAN I JUST TELL YOU, ONE OF
THE ISSUES IS THE DEFICIT,
THOUGH IT SHOULD BE, DOESN’T END
UP BEING A CORE ISSUE FOR
VOTERS.
VOTERS. IF YOU SAID TO VOTERS, THE
DEFICIT IS A GAZILLION, IT
DOESN’T HIT WITH THEM.
AND SO DEMOCRATS, WHILE YOU MAY
BE RIGHT FUNDAMENTALLY, YOU HAVE
TO WIN LITERALLY AND IT’S NOT A
CORE ISSUE FOR THEM.
>> IT WILL BE A CORE ISSUE WHEN
THE STOCK MARKET ALL OF A SUDDEN
ONE DAY, WE WAKE UP AND THE
STOCK MARKET IS LINKED TO THE
FACT THAT THE NATIONAL DEBT --
THE COUNTRY CANNOT CONTINUE TO
PRINT MONEY, IT’S A NATIONAL
SECURITY ISSUE.
SECURITY ISSUE. IT WILL BE AN ISSUE.
AND IN TERMS OF THE SOCIALISM IN
WHICH THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOW
ESPOUSING ISSUES THAT ARE SO
FOREIGN FOR OUR PROMISE, IF
BERNIE SANDERS WHO SAYS PUBLICLY
I AM A SOCIALIST, IF HE GETS THE
NOMINATION FOR THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES, DONALD TRUMP
IS GOING TO GET REELECTED.
AND FOR SOME REASON, IF BERNIE
SANDERS IS GOING TO BE THE NEXT
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,
THAT WOULD BE A DISASTER FOR OUR
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. AND A DISASTER FOR THE ECONOMY.
>> YOU GOT A GOOD AUDIENCE WITH
US TALKING ABOUT DEBTS AND
DEFICIT.
DEFICIT. LET’S GO BACK TO 1969.
THE ONLY TIME WE HAVE HAD
SURPLUSES HAVE BEEN UNDER BILL
CLINTON AND ONE QUARTER UNDER
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
WILL BE FRUSTRATED BY THE IDEA
THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING WHILE
SENSIBLE IS A REPUBLICAN TALKING
POINT THAT JUSTIFIES CUTTING
SOCIAL PROGRAMS WHICH WE’VE
WITNESSED IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.
REPUBLICANS RUN UP DEFICIT AND
SAY WE CAN’T AFFORD OUR SOCIAL
PROGRAMS BECAUSE LOOK HOW
SERIOUS OUR DEBT IS.
THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO GET MESSED
UP ARE THE PEOPLE ON GOVERNMENT
ASSISTANCE --
ASSISTANCE -- >> LET ME QUALIFY THAT BECAUSE I
THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT.
DURING PRESIDENT OBAMA’S EIGHT
YEARS, REPUBLICANS, McCONNELL,
BANGED ON PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR
EIGHT CONSECUTIVE YEARS, TRUMP
COMES IN, WHERE ARE THE
REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS. WE DON’T HEAR A VOICE.
BUT I DON’T AGREE WITH WHAT
YOU’RE SAYING FOR ONE REASON, I
STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE
WEALTHY SHOULD BE PAYING FOR IN
TAXES AND GETTING LESS.
CORPORATE AMERICA, YOU JUST HAD
CONGRESSMAN DELANEY ON, HE WAS
CORRECT.
CORRECT. IT SHOULD BE 25, 26.
USE THAT MONEY TO BENEFIT THOSE
WHO HAVE LESS.
BUT WE MUST HAVE A
TRANSFORMATION OF OUR TAX POLICY
AND THE WEALTHY AND CORPORATIONS
SHOULD BE PAYING MORE AND USE
THAT MONEY RESPONSIBLY TO HELP
PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GETTING WHAT
THEY NEED FROM AMERICAN SOCIETY.
THEIR FAMILIES DON’T HAVE $400
IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY.
YOU’VE GOT FIVE MILLION KIDS IN
AMERICA AGES AN TO 24 WHO ARE
NOT IN SCHOOL AND NOT IN WORK.
>> I DON’T MEAN TO INTERRUPT
YOU, BUT YOU SAID THAT RAY DALIO
SAID SOMETHING, AND YOU KNOW
WHAT, A LOT OF AMERICANS KNEW
THIS A LONG TIME BEFORE YOU
REALLY RICH GUYS STARTED TALKING
ABOUT HOW BIFURCATED AMERICA IS
AND THAT’S WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
DO YOU GET WHY SOME PEOPLE DON’T
THINK YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS?
YOU RICH GUYS -- IF I CAME TO
YOU AND TOLD YOU THERE’S A
PROBLEM, BECAUSE THE REST OF
AMERICA HAS BEEN LIVING IT.
>> YOU CALL ME A RICH GUY.
I GREW UP IN FEDERAL --
>> I UNDERSTAND.
>> I’M SELF-MADE AND I BUILT A
COMPANY THAT EMPLOYED OVER 3
MILLION PEOPLE THE LAST FOUR
YEARS AND GAVE HEALTH CARE,
OWNERSHIP AND FREE COLLEGE
TUITION TO EVERY EMPLOYEE.
>> WHEN YOU GET INTO THE
BIFURCATION CONVERSATION THAT
THE REST OF US HAVE BEEN HAVING
FOR DECADES.
FOR DECADES. >> BUT THIS IS A LACK OF
LEADERSHIP AND GOVERNMENT WHO
ARE UNWILLING TO FACE THE ISSUES
AND SOLVE AMERICA’S PROBLEM.
WHY DO WE HAVE A $22 TRILLION
DEBT?
DEBT? WHY IS OUR STANDING IN THE WORLD
NOT WORKING?
NOT WORKING? BECAUSE OF BOTH PARTIES IDEOLOGY
AND UNWILLING TO WORK TOGETHER.
THAT’S WHY I’M CONSIDERING
RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.
>> IF THAT’S TRUE, WHY IS
BRITAIN BIFURCATED?
BRITAIN BIFURCATED? WHY IS FRANCE BIFURCATED?
WHY WERE THE ARAB COUNTRIES
BIFURCATED?
BIFURCATED? IT’S NOT ACTUALLY ABOUT
DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICAN.
IT’S ABOUT RICH PEOPLE WHO DON’T
PAY TAXES, WHO DON’T UNDERSTAND
IT’S NOT ABOUT CHARITY.
IT’S ACTUALLY ABOUT WEALTH
DISTRIBUTION.
DISTRIBUTION. >> NOW WE’RE GOING TO TALK --
>> ARE YOU TELLING ME OUR
ECONOMIC BIFURCATION IS BECAUSE
OF DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICAN NOT
AGREEING ON POLICY?
>> I’M TALKING ABOUT THE LACK OF
LEADERSHIP AND UNDERSTANDING OF
THE ELECTED OFFICIALS TO DO THE
RIGHT THING FOR THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. >> IN THE CASE THAT I JUST
OUTLINED, THAT’S NOT THE ANSWER
IN ALL THOSE COUNTRIES AND YET
THE WORLD IS BIFURCATED.
>> I’M TALKING ABOUT AMERICA.
>> BECAUSE REPUBLICAN AND
DEMOCRAT POLICIES AND I’M
TELLING YOU IT’S A GLOBAL ISSUE
OF WEALTH CONCENTRATION, NOT
ACTUALLY ABOUT POLITICAL
DISAGREEMENT ON POLICIES.
>> YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT EACH
COUNTRY?
COUNTRY? YOU WANT TO PUT CHINA UP HERE?
>> WE CAN CUT THIS ANY WAY YOU
WANT.
WANT. >> YOU’RE WRONG.
>> HOW MANY PEOPLE IN AMERICA
HAVE THE WEALTH OF BOTTOM HALF
OF SOCIETY?
OF SOCIETY? HOW MANY RICH PEOPLE IN THE
WORLD HAVE THE SAME WEALTH AS
THE BOTTOM 3 1/2 MILLION IN
SOCIETY?
SOCIETY? >> 28.
>> 28. >> I DIDN’T CREATE POLICIES THAT
WE ARE NOW UNDER.
I’M HERE TO TELL YOU THAT I AM
LOOKING AT THE CURRENT SITUATION
ECONOMICALLY IN THIS COUNTRY AND
IF YOU WANT TO SOLVE THE
PROBLEMS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE
KIND OF LEADERSHIP THAT
COOPERATES WITH ONE ANOTHER AND
IS NOT STEEPED IN IDEOLOGY.
>> OKAY.
>> OKAY. BUT HERE’S THE ISSUE.
>> I DON’T UNDERSTAND HOW
THAT --
THAT -- >> YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND HOW IT
WORKS?
WORKS? >> I’M REALLY CLEAR ON HOW
ECONOMIC BIFURCATION WORKS.
I’M CONCERNED SOLVING THE
PROBLEM.
PROBLEM. REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS NOT
AGREEING IS WHY GERMANY IS
BIFURCATED?
BIFURCATED? >> SHOULD WE BE SPENDING LESS
THAN WE’RE TAKING IN?
>> IT’S NOT A YES OR NO.
>> IT IS A YES OR NO.
>> IT’S REALLY NOT.
IF YOU’RE IN A RECESSION AND YOU
NEED TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY
AND YOU GET A RETURN -- LET
ME -- YOU ASKED ME A QUESTION.
>> WE’RE NOT IN A RECESSION.
>> BUT THE ANSWER IN THAT CASE
MIGHT BE YES.
SO IT’S NOT A YES OR NO
QUESTION.
QUESTION. >> HOW ABOUT RIGHT NOW?
IN THIS MOMENT IN TIME WHEN YOU
JUST PUT UP THESE NUMBERS,
SHOULD WE BE SPENDING LESS THAN
WE’RE TAKING IN?
>> WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
WE’RE SPENDING.
WE’RE SPENDING. >> YOU DON’T WANT TO ANSWER THE
QUESTION.
QUESTION. >> I’M ACTUALLY ANSWERING IT IN
A NUANCED WAY THAT DOESN’T
SUGGEST THERE IS A SIMPLE ANSWER
TO THESE COMPLICATED QUESTIONS
THAT PLAGUE THE WORLD.
>> IN ALL FAIRNESS, IT’S NOT
COMPLICATED TO ME.
>> I UNDERSTAND THAT.
>> WE HAVE SUCH A ROBUST ECONOMY
AND WE’RE SPENDING MUCH MORE
THAN WE’RE TAKING IN AND WHY?
BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS AND
REPUBLICANS AND THIS PRESIDENT
ARE NOT DOING WHAT THEY NEED TO
DO.
DO. >> BUT HOWARD --
>> REDUCE THIS NATIONAL DEBT
THAT WE HAVE.
>> LET’S SAY YOU HAVE THE BEST
IDEAS TO DO SO.
WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT A PATH AND
PROCESS FOR A MOMENT.
BECAUSE YOU TALK ABOUT MITCH
McCONNELL.
McCONNELL. WHILE HE MIGHT NOT BE
INSPIRATIONAL, HE MIGHT NOT BE
SOMEBODY I WANT TO HAVE OVER FOR
DINNER, HE’S A TACTICAL BEAST.
LET’S SAY YOU END UP IN
WASHINGTON.
WASHINGTON. YOU COULD END UP IN PRESIDENT
OBAMA’S POSITION WHERE MITCH
McCONNELL SAID THANKS FOR
PLAYING, I’M ABOUT TO BLOCK YOU
ON EVERYTHING.
ON EVERYTHING. YOU DON’T HAVE THE EXPERTISE OR
THE EXPERIENCE.
THE EXPERIENCE. HOW DO YOU TAKE THESE IDEAS AND
TAKE THIS WHOLE -- BY THE WAY,
IF YOU RAN AGAINST JOHN DELANEY,
YOUR IDEAS ARE SIMILAR.
WHERE IS YOUR PATH TO WIN AND TO
GOVERN?
GOVERN? THERE IS A PROCESS AND YOU’RE
OUTSIDE OF IT.
>> AM I GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO
ANSWER THIS QUESTION WITHOUT
BEING INTERRUPTED?
BEING INTERRUPTED? THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. HERE IT IS.
LET’S TALK ABOUT THE THEORY OF
THE CASE.
THE CASE. OKAY?
OKAY? FIRST AND FOREMOST.
IN THE LAST 30 PLUS YEARS, ONLY
EIGHT TO TEN BATTLEGROUND STATES
HAVE DECIDED THE PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION.
ELECTION. IF I ENTER THE RACE, OVER 40
STATES FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 30
PLUS YEARS WILL HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY IN WHICH YOUR
REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC VOTE IN
A RED OR BLUE STATE WILL REALLY
MATTER.
MATTER. THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.
SO THERE IS A PATH TO 270.
AND IT’S REAL.
IT’S REAL BECAUSE NOT ONLY OF
THE MATH, BECAUSE THE COUNTRY IS
SO DIVIDED, FED UP, EXHAUSTED
AND DISGUSTED BY OUR POLITICAL
SYSTEM.
SYSTEM. AND THAT’S A FACT.
YOU PUT UP A STACK BEFORE THE --
50% OF AMERICANS DON’T TRUST
FACEBOOK.
FACEBOOK. 71% OF THE AMERICANS DON’T TRUST
OUR GOVERNMENT.
OUR GOVERNMENT. WE NEED A CHANGE.
SECOND THING IS NOW, FOR THE
FIRST TIME SINCE GEORGE
WASHINGTON, IF AN INDEPENDENT
PERSON, IF I RUN AND AM
FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO GET TO THE
WHITE HOUSE, CAN YOU IMAGINE THE
HISTORIC MANDATE FOR THE FIRST
TIME IN OVER 200 PLUS YEARS WE
DON’T WANT A DEMOCRAT, WE DON’T
WANT A REPUBLICAN, WE WANT AN
INDEPENDENT WHO HAS BUILT A
GLOBAL ENTERPRISE IN 77
COUNTRIES, UNDERSTANDS THE
WORLD, RUSSIA, CHINA, SYRIA, THE
MIDDLE EAST, THIS WHOLE ASPECT
AND HAS PROVEN YOU CAN BUILD A
COMPANY AND REWARD YOUR PEOPLE
AT THE SAME TIME?
SO WHAT DO I BELIEVE?
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE GOING TO
SAY TO ALL THE REPUBLICANS AND
ALL THE DEMOCRATS IF YOU DON’T
WORK WITH THIS INDEPENDENT
PERSON WHO’S RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT, WE’RE GOING TO FIRE
YOU.
YOU. >> SO YOU’RE RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT?
PRESIDENT? >> I’M NOT -- THAT’S THE
QUESTION, YES OR NO.
I’M NOT HERE TO SAY THAT TODAY,
BUT I’M CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC.
I’M GOING TO BUS TO KANSAS.
I’VE BEEN TRAVELING THE COUNTRY
FOR THE LAST ALMOST 11 WEEKS, A
DIFFERENT CITY EVERY DAY.
I’M INSPIRED BY THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. IF THIS SYSTEM IS BROKEN, WE CAN
FIX IT BUT WE CAN’T FIX IT WITH
THE IDEOLOGY OF PARTIES.
I’M NOT HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE
UK AND FRANCE.
I LOVE AMERICA AND WE CAN FIX
THESE PROBLEM.
THESE PROBLEM. >> THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
>> WHAT A SPIRITED CONVERSATION.
>> THAT’S WHAT IT’S ABOUT.