>>> CHAOS. LET’S PLAY "HARDBALL."
>>> GOOD EVENING.
I’M CHRIS MATTHEWS FROM
WASHINGTON.
WASHINGTON. WE’RE WATCHING BREAKING NEWS.
ALL OF IT SHOWS A WHITE HOUSE IN
CHAOS.
CHAOS. TODAY PRESIDENT TRUMP FOLLOWED
THE LEAD OF RUSH LIMBAUGH
FORCING A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN
OVER FUNDING FOR HIS BORDER
WALL.
WALL. IN JUST THE LAST HOUR GENERAL
JIM MATTIS ANNOUNCED HE’S
LEAVING AND HANGING OVER IT ALL
NBC NEWS IS REPORTING TONIGHT
THAT THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION
IS STEAM ROLLING TOWARD A
CONCLUSION REPORTEDLY BY MID
FEBRUARY.
FEBRUARY. FIRST STOP, TRUMP’S BORDER WALL
FIGHT.
FIGHT. WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE WITH
THESE PEOPLE CALL THE SHOTS.
THEY ARE THE ONES WHO TOLD
PRESIDENT TRUMP NOT TO SIGN THE
BILL TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT
OPEN.
OPEN. >> IT’S A TEXTBOOK EXAMPLE OF
WHAT THE DRIVE BY MEDIA CALLS
COMPROMISE.
COMPROMISE. TRUMP GETS NOTHING AND THE
DEMOCRATS GET EVERYTHING,
INCLUDING CONTROL OF THE HOUSE.
>> IT’LL JUST HAVE BEEN A JOKE
PRESIDENCY THAT SCAMMED THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE, ENRAGED, YOU
KNOW -- AMUSED THE POPULISTS FOR
A WHILE.
A WHILE. YOU WILL A
YOU’LL HAVE NO LEGACY AT ALL.
>> I THINK NOT FUNDING THE WALL,
THE WALL, THE WALL, THE WALL HAS
TO BE BUILT.
>> THE PRESIDENT TONIGHT MADE
SURE THEY KNEW HE HEARD THEM
LOUD AND CLEAR.
>> I’VE MADE MY POSITION VERY
CLEAR.
CLEAR. ANY MEASURE THAT FUNDS THE
GOVERNMENT MUST INCLUDE BORDER
SECURITY.
SECURITY. HAS TO.
HAS TO. NOT FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES BUT
FOR -- FOR OUR COUNTRY, FOR THE
SAFETY OF OUR COMMUNITY.
THIS IS NOT MERELY MY CAMPAIGN
PROMISE, THIS IS THE PROMISE
EVERY LAWMAKER MADE.
>> BUT UP UNTIL THIS MORNING IT
WAS EXPECTED THAT THE GOVERNMENT
WOULD REMAIN OPEN.
ALL THAT CHANGED, AS TRUMP WAS
BOMBARDED BY THE FUSELAGE FROM
THE RIGHT.
THE RIGHT. THAT’S ALL THAT HAPPENED.
THE SCENE WAS REPORTEDLY IN
TURMOIL.
TURMOIL. A PERSON CLOSE TO THE PRESIDENT
DESCRIBED HIM AS 100% IN A TAIL
SPIN.
SPIN. REPUBLICANS ON CAPITOL HILL WERE
LEFT IN THE DARK ABOUT WHAT THE
PRESIDENT WOULD DO NEXT.
TRUMP TRIED TO SHIFT THE BLAME
TO THE REPUBLICAN LEADERS.
HE TWEETED THIS MORNING, I WAS
PROMISED A WALL AND THE BORDER
SECURITY BY LEADERSHIP.
IT DIDN’T HAPPEN.
REPUBLICAN HOUSE LEADERS WERE
CALLED TO THE WHITE HOUSE THIS
AFTERNOON WHERE THEY WERE UNABLE
TO CONVINCE THE PRESIDENT TO
TAKE THE SPENDING BILL THAT’S
ALREADY PASSED THE SENATE.
>> WE JUST HAD A VERY LONG,
PRODUCTIVE MEETING WITH THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. THE PRESIDENT INFORMED US THAT
HE WILL NOT SIGN THE BILL THAT
CAME UP FROM THE SENATE LAST
EVENING BECAUSE OF HIS
LEGITIMATE CONCERNS FOR BORDER
SECURITY.
SECURITY. >> THAT COMES AS TRUMP
PERSONALLY CALLED RUSH LIMBAUGH
TO LET HIM KNOW THE NEWS.
>> JUST RECEIVED CLEARANCE.
THE PRESIDENT HAS GOTTEN WORD TO
ME THAT HE IS EITHER GETTING
FUNDING FOR THE BORDER OR HE’S
SHUTTING THE WHOLE THING DOWN.
>> AND NOW HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE
LEFT WITH FEW OPTIONS.
IF THEY PASS A BILL THAT
INCLUDES THE PRESIDENT’S BORDER
WALL FUNDING IT WILL SURELY FAIL
IN THE SENATE WHERE REPUBLICANS
LACK THE 60 VOTES THEY NEED.
THERE’S NO PLAN B ON THAT AT
THIS POINT SO IT LOOKS LIKE THE
GOVERNMENT WILL FACE AT LEAST A
PARTIAL SHUTDOWN TOMORROW NIGHT
AT MIDNIGHT.
AT MIDNIGHT. THAT’S FRIDAY NIGHT.
AND JOINING ME RIGHT NOW IS
CARLOS CORBELLO, DONNA EDWARDS
AND ROBERT KOSTA, NATIONAL
POLITICAL REPORTER FOR THE
WASHINGTON POST.
WASHINGTON POST. ROBERT, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON
TONIGHT.
TONIGHT. THIS IS A STRANGE, CHAOTIC NIGHT
IN OUR COUNTRY.
MATTIS IS LEAVING.
THE GOVERNMENT’S ABOUT TO SHUT
DOWN AND THE PRESIDENT SEEMS TO
BE TAKING THE LEAD OF THE HARD
RIGHT MEDIA LISTENING TO RUSH
LIMBAUGH SLAMMING HIM FOR
ALLOWING THE GOVERNMENT TO STAY
OPEN WITHOUT THE WALL BEING PUT
UP AND ANN COULTER, MY GOD.
AS WAS LAURA INGRAHAM.
EXPLAIN WHY THE PRESIDENT HAS
ELEPHANT EARS FOR THE RIGHT WING
MEDIA.
MEDIA. >> IT’S A CHAOTIC NIGHT HERE IN
THE NEWSROOM AT THE POST, CHRIS.
I FEEL LIKE WE’RE REWRITING
TOMORROW’S STORY BY THE HOUR DUE
TO ALL OF THIS TURBULENCE, THE
CHANGING STORY.
CHANGING STORY. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THIS IS
A PRESIDENT UNDER SIEGE, A
PRESIDENT WHO GOVERNS IN PART BY
WATCHING TELEVISION TO SEE WHERE
HIS BASE IS GOING AND HE SAW HIS
BASE BREAKING WITH HIM ON THE
EVE OF DIVIDED GOVERNMENT AND
HE’S THRUSTING HIS GOVERNMENT
TOWARD A SHUTDOWN TO MAKE A
POINT, A POLITICAL POINT THAT
HE’S WITH HIS CORE VOTERS.
>> HE’S LISTENING TO THE MEDIA,
RICH LIMBAUGH, LEAD THE PEOPLE.
IS RUSH LIMBAUGH THE CHICKEN OR
THE EGG HERE?
IS HE TELLING HIS CONSTITUENCY
WHERE TO GO OR IS HE LISTENING
TO THEM?
TO THEM? I GET THE SENSE THAT THE HARD
RIGHT MEDIA ARE TELLING A
PRESIDENT WHO REPRESENTS 45 TO
50% OF THE COUNTRY WHAT TO DO.
THE MEDIA CAN’T TELL 50% WHAT TO
DO.
DO. THE MEDIA EVEN ON THE HARD RIGHT
SUCCESSFUL, BIG AUDIENCE, RIGHT
WING AUDIENCES AT RUSH
LIMBAUGH’S RADIO SHOW, FOX, THE
BIG SHOWS, THEY DON’T REPRESENT
MORE THAN 5% OF THE COUNTRY OR
10%.
10%. WHY IS HE THINKING THEY
REPRESENT THE COUNTRY?
>> THIS IS A PRESIDENT WHO
DOESN’T COME OUT OF CONGRESS,
HAS NEVER GOVERNED UNTIL HE WAS
ELECTED TO THE PRESIDENCY.
CHRIS, AT THE CAPITOL ALL LAST
NIGHT LAWMAKERS WERE TELLING ME
THEY THOUGHT THE LEADERSHIP HAD
BACKED THE PRESIDENT AWAY FROM A
SHUTDOWN, THAT IT COULD HAVE
SOME KIND OF SHORT-TERM
COMPROMISE AND LIVE TO FIGHT
ANOTHER DAY NEXT YEAR OVER A
BORDER WALL BUT THE PRESIDENT
LISTENING TO LIMBAUGH, WATCHING
FOX NEWS BOTH AT NIGHT AND IN
THE MORNING, HE’S TRYING TO
TWEET TO SIGNAL TO HIS BASE,
DON’T BREAK WITH ME.
IT WAS NOT ONLY ANN COULTER, IT
WAS MARK MEADOWS, NORTH CAROLINA
CONGRESSMAN AND A WHOLE CHORUS
OF PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT.
>> WELL, MOMENTS AGO DEMOCRATIC
LEADERS CHUCK SCHUMER, NANCY
PELOSI LAID THE RESPONSIBILITY
OF THE SHUTDOWN SQUARELY ON THE
FEET OF THE PRESIDENT.
LET’S WATCH THEM.
>> THE PRESIDENT IS DOING
EVERYTHING HE CAN TO SHUT THE
GOVERNMENT DOWN.
GOVERNMENT DOWN. YOU HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION,
WHY?
WHY? DOES HE NOT BELIEVE IN
GOVERNANCE?
GOVERNANCE? DOES HE NOT CARE ABOUT THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE?
AMERICAN PEOPLE? DOESN’T HE KNOW THAT THE ECONOMY
IS UNCERTAIN?
IS UNCERTAIN? HASN’T HE FOLLOWED THE STOCK
MARKET THAT HE LIKES TO BRAG
ABOUT SOMETIMES?
ABOUT SOMETIMES? THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH
THIS PICTURE.
THIS PICTURE. >> UNFORTUNATELY, PRESIDENT
TRUMP WAS ATTACKED THIS MORNING
AND LAST NIGHT BY THE HARD RIGHT
AND FEARFUL HE BACKED OFF HIS
COMMITMENT TO SIGN THIS BILL.
>> LET’S TALK ABOUT IT WITH
CHUCK SCHUMER, I THINK HE’S GOT
IT JUST RIGHT.
IT’S THE WAY WE ALL SAW IT TODAY
IN OUR NEWSROOM.
HE’S LISTENING TO THE TALKERS
FROM THE RIGHT.
I KEEP REMINDING PEOPLE, LEFT OR
RIGHT, THAT WHEN YOU’RE IN THE
MEDIA, YOU’RE VERY MUCH
PASSIONATE ABOUT THE NEWS,
YOU’RE TALKING TO PROGRESSIVES,
ACTIVISTS, YOU RECOGNIZE THAT
THEY ARE NOT 50%.
HE HAS TO TALK, THE PRESIDENT,
IT SEEMS TO ME 45% OF HIS OWN
PEOPLE AND HE’S LISTENING TO
LIMBAUGH WHO REPRESENTS 11
MILLION PEOPLE ON A GOOD DAY.
>> THAT’S RIGHT, CHRIS.
THESE UNELECTED OFFICIALS,
THEY’RE INFLUENTIAL.
THEY’RE INFLUENTIAL. THEY’RE UNELECTED.
THEY’RE UNELECTED. NO ONE HAS VOTED THEM INTO
OFFICE.
OFFICE. THEY ARE MAKING BIG DECISIONS.
A LOT OF REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF
CONGRESS, I CAN TELL YOU THAT
PROBABLY A MAJORITY OF MY
REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES DO NOT
AGREE WITH THIS DECISION.
A MAJORITY OF MY REPUBLICAN
COLLEAGUES BELIEVE THE RIGHT
THING TO DO IS TO PASS THE BILL
THAT THE SENATE PASSED
UNANIMOUSLY.
UNANIMOUSLY. AND WITH REGARDS TO WHO’S AT
FAULT HERE, I THINK THE
PRESIDENT HAS LEFT VERY LITTLE
QUESTION BECAUSE HE SAID LAST
WEEK IN HIS OFFICE THAT HE WOULD
BE THE ONE THAT’S RESPONSIBLE
FOR SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT
AND HE HAS NOW PUT US ON THAT
PATH BECAUSE EVEN IF THE HOUSE
TONIGHT PASSES THE BILL WITH THE
BORDER FUNDING THAT’S
UNACCEPTABLE TO THE SENATE, IT’S
GOING NOWHERE.
GOING NOWHERE. SO WE’RE WALKING RIGHT INTO A
DEAD END.
DEAD END. >> DONNA, YOU KNOW THE
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMMENTARY
AND GOVERNMENT BECAUSE YOU’VE
DONE BOTH.
DONE BOTH. IN THIS CASE THERE IS GOING TO
BE AN OPENING OF THE GOVERNMENT
AT SOME POINT, MAYBE NOT
TOMORROW NIGHT, MAYBE NOT AFTER
CHRISTMAS, NEW YEAR’S, WHENEVER,
BUT THEY’LL EVENTUALLY RE-OPEN.
THERE’S NOT GOING TO BE A WALL.
WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE?
IT SEEMS LIKE THE MARKET COULD
KEEP GOING DOWN.
THIS COULD BE A LONG TERM
STALEMATE WHERE NOTHING GETS
AGREED TO.
AGREED TO. >> THERE ISN’T GOING TO BE A
WALL AN EVEN IF -- YOU KNOW, SAY
YOU GO TO A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN
LIKE THE ONE WE HAD IN 2013,
2014 T WILL COST THE ECONOMY $25
BILLION OVER THE COURSE OF THAT
TIME AND SO -- AND IT DOESN’T --
THE NUMBERS DON’T GET BETTER FOR
THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE IN JANUARY
THEN HE’S DEALING WITH A
DEMOCRATIC HOUSE.
DEMOCRATIC HOUSE. >> LET ME EXPLAIN.
WHY DOES IT COST THE GOVERNMENT?
>> IT COSTS -- IT COSTS MONEY
BECAUSE, ONE, YOU LOSE THE MONEY
THAT YOU LOSE BECAUSE YOU’VE GOT
WORKERS WHO ARE OUT OF WORK.
TWO, YOU LOSE -- YOU LOSE MONEY
BECAUSE THERE’S A WHOLE BUNCH OF
BUSINESS THAT THE GOVERNMENT
DOES THAT IT JUST CAN’T DO.
>> BY THE WAY --
>> THAT’S LIKE TRAFFIC.
IT SLOWS EVERYTHING DOWN.
>> WE KNOW THE PRESIDENT CATCHES
UP ON FOX NEWS.
HERE’S A TASTE OF WHAT HE’S
WATCHING.
WATCHING. >> THE PRESIDENT SHOULD VETO
THIS BILL.
THIS BILL. THIS BREAKS A PROMISE WITH HIS
SUPPORTERS.
SUPPORTERS. EVERYBODY LOOKING AT THIS VIEWS
THIS AS ODIUS.
>> WE’RE RIGHT ON THIS ISSUE.
THIS IS A FIGHT WORTH HAVING.
>> I’M TROUBLED BY WHAT’S GOING
ON.
ON. I FEEL LIKE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE
CAVED IN AGAIN.
I THINK THE PRESIDENT SHOULD DIG
IN HIS HEELS.
I’M A LITTLE BIT DISAPPOINTED
THAT THERE’S BEEN A MIXED
MESSAGE GOING ON.
>> THIS IS A FUMBLE AND WE NEED
TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PRESIDENT
STAYS FIRM AND A LOT OF PEOPLE
ARE VERY NERVOUS THIS MORNING
ABOUT WHETHER THE PRESIDENT WILL
CAVE OR NOT.
>> THIS WAS THE TOP ISSUE, WHY
PEOPLE VOTED NOT JUST FOR THIS
PRESIDENT BEFORE THIS
ADMINISTRATION AND IT CONTINUES
TO BE A TOP CONCERN FOR VOTERS
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
>> ROBERT, TALK ABOUT THIS, THE
EXECUTIVE TIME THE PRESIDENT
CALLS IT WHEN HE LISTENS TO THIS
STUFF.
STUFF. DOES HE JUST TURN ON THE TUBE,
TURN ON FOX, CHECK THE OTHER
CABLE STATIONS?
CABLE STATIONS? WHAT DOES HE DO, WALK AWAY
STEAMING?
STEAMING? WHAT’S HIS REACTION?
HE SEEMS TO BE IN THIS CASE
GETTING HIS MARCHING ORDERS FROM
RUSH AND ANN COULTER?
>> DURING THE CAMPAIGN THE
PRESIDENT USED TO TELL ME AND
OTHER REPORTERS THAT HE’D WATCH
TELEVISION TO MAKE SURE HE KNEW
WHERE THE NEWS WAS GOING AND
HE’D TRY TO JUMP INTO IT LIKE IT
WAS A RIVER SO INSTEAD OF PAYING
FOR ADVERTISING HE WAS ALWAYS
REACTING TO THE NEWS.
THAT’S WHY NOW EVEN AS PRESIDENT
TWO YEARS IN REGARDLESS OF WHAT
ADVISORS TELL HIM ABOUT THE WHIP
COUNT ON CAPITOL HILL, HE’S
ALWAYS KEEPING AN EYE ON THE
TELEVISION.
TELEVISION. WHERE IS THE NEWS CYCLE?
WHERE IS THAT CHYRON?
HOW CAN HE ADJUST IT?
WHEN HE SEES THEM GOING A
CERTAIN DIRECTION, HE MAY TRY TO
JUMP IN AGAINST ALL OF THE
ADVICE OF THOSE AROUND HIM TO
TRY TO CHANGE THE NEWS AND
CHANGE WHAT HE THINKS IS HIS
POLICY AND HIS PERSPECTIVE.
>> WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT?
WHAT HAPPENED WITH SYRIA?
I MEAN, I THINK HE’S TAKEN HIS
LEAD FROM RAND PAUL, PEOPLE LIKE
ME ARE AGAINST IT.
IT’S UNUSUAL FOR HIM TO BREAK --
HIS BEHAVIOR SEEMS UNEVEN
LATELY.
LATELY. A LITTLE DODGY LATELY.
HE’S JUMPING AROUND.
I’M GOING TO MAR-A-LAGO, I’M NOT
GOING TO MAR-A-LAGO.
I’M LETTING THE GOVERNMENT STAY
OPEN, I’M NOTCLOSING THE
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. I’M GETTING OUT OF SYRIA.
>> PULL IT BACK.
HE’S LOOKING AT DIVIDED
GOVERNMENT AND FROM THE BORDER
WALL TO AFGHANISTAN TO SYRIA
HE’S TRYING TO CHECK THE BOX AND
ALL OF THESE SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN
PROMISES.
PROMISES. REMEMBER DURING THE CAMPAIGN HE
WANTED TO SHRINK THE AMERICAN
FOOTPRINT ABROAD.
FOOTPRINT ABROAD. HE’S TRYING TO TELL HIS BASE
WITH ALL OF THESE MOVES
REGARDLESS OF THE CONSTERNATION
AT THE PENTAGON AND ELSEWHERE
THAT HE’S TICKING OFF THOSE
BOXES FOR HIS POLITICAL BASE AS
THEY GET READY FOR THE WHIRLWIND
THAT’S GOING TO BE 2019.
>> HOW’S IT GOING TO LOOK,
DONNA, TO SEE THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES IN 75 DEGREE
FLORIDA TEEING OFF?
MAY NOT GO TOMORROW BUT HE’S
GOING TO GO SOONER OR LATER.
>> IT’S GOING TO LOOK LIKE IT
SOUNDED FROM HIS OFFICE, THAT
HE’S PROUD TO SHUT THE
GOVERNMENT DOWN.
GOVERNMENT DOWN. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START
FEELING THE REVERB RACESGSRAGSER
HE WENT TO BED, CUT A DEAL WITH
SENATE REPUBLICANS AND THEN GOT
UP THIS MORNING AND IS EASILY
SWAYED BY THE LAST PEOPLE WHO
WERE ON THE NEWS.
THIS IS ERRATIC.
IT’S CHAOTIC AND IT FITS WITH A
PRESIDENT WHO JUST DOESN’T
REALLY HAVE A HANDLE ON
GOVERNANCE ANYMORE, NOT THAT HE
EVER DID ACTUALLY.
>> ANYBODY THAT HAS MONEY IN THE
STOCK MARKET IS HAVING A BAD
TIME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE
ESPECIALLY OLD PEOPLE AND 401Ks,
RICH PEOPLE, ANYBODY WHO HAS
MONEY IN THERE.
TRUMP HAS ALWAYS BEEN MR.
CHEERLEADER.
CHEERLEADER. IT’S GOT TO BE THE BACK STORY
HERE.
HERE. EVERY DAY 500 POINTS, EVERY DAY.
>> CHRIS, HERE’S THE BOTTOM
LINE.
LINE. THE PRESIDENT RAN ON BORDER
SECURITY.
SECURITY. I THINK HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO
INSIST THAT WE INVEST MORE AT
THE BORDER.
THE BORDER. HE DID RUN ON THE ISSUE AND HE
DID WIN THE ELECTION.
WHAT HE DOESN’T UNDERSTAND OR
WHAT SOME PEOPLE AROUND HIM
DON’T WANT TO ALLOW HIM TO
UNDERSTAND THAT, IF HE WANTS
THAT, HE’S GOING TO HAVE TO
COMPROMISE.
COMPROMISE. THERE’S A VERY SYMMETRICAL
SOLUTION OUT THERE.
MORE BORDER SECURITY.
WE PROPOSED THAT 1678921 OF OUR
COLLEAGUES IN THE HOUSE VOTED
FOR IT.
FOR IT. HALF REPUBLICANS.
HALF REPUBLICANS. NO DEMOCRATS VOTED FOR IT.
THAT’S THE SOLUTION NOT
DEMANDING MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.
>> I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT BUT I
THINK YOU HAVE TO GO FURTHER
SAYING COMPREHENSIVE --
>> I’M ALL FOR IT.
>> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN HERE 10, 20
YEARS.
YEARS. NOBODY’S GOING TO GO HOME.
JUST GOT TO DEAL WITH SOME OF
THE ILLEGAL HIRING AND A LOT OF
THINGS HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. THEY DON’T WANT TO DO IT.
THANK YOU ALL FOR OFFERING
REASONABLE SENCENTRISM ON THAT.