- I would never ever want to be that person that says, "I've seen everyone there is to see."
I never want to be that person. I will always be like, "There's more.
I'll find more."
- Where did it all begin for you? How did you get into casting?
- Oh god, um. I was a bit of a lost soul at 16, you know. GCSEs and all that. And everyone seemed to
have a very clear idea of what it is that they wanted to do. I don't know who at 16 knows what
their big life choice is going to be. I certainly didn't. So I went and did B-tech performing arts
because all my mates were doing it and I just wanted the social life. But anytime they'd say,
"Oh Lauren, will you get up and do this?" like "Oh no, I don't want to do that, please. I don't want
to sing. I'm going to do this." But I knew I wanted to be involved in the arts and in this industry.
So I finished college, still very lost. Took a gap year, still lost. And then did an undergraduate
course in arts management which I really didn't enjoy, it was very much geared towards the visual
arts. But in the final year we had a module that was work placement, so I went back to
the drama school that I went to as child on a Sunday and they had started a
management company alongside for the children who were part of the school. And I went for the summer
to be an agent there or an agent's assistant and really enjoyed it. And as I was getting into it,
I realised I was talking to casting offices all day and sort of seeing, getting a glimpse
into their world, that they would be doing this and they would be looking for actors for the shows
that they were doing. And just thought, as much as I enjoyed it, I thought I might be on the wrong side.
So when I finished uni, I stayed with the agency for a little bit and then after about a year I
made the leap into casting. I sent a letter to anyone who would have it and I had one response
from Kate Dowd who is a lovely American casting director based here who gave me an internship.
And I worked on Brad Pitt's film World War Z, as my first job which absolutely blew my mind.
And then from there I did about eight months and then an agent recommended me to Nina Gold who
was looking for an assistant and I went there for six years.
- What initially drew you to casting then
- I didn't realise until I got into it that I'd always sort of innately been doing it.
Like my brother and I are massive musical theatre fans and we loved films growing up and we would
always recast the films with our mates. Like who would play that? Who would be Uncle Buck from
the people that we know? Or in Les Mis, my brother would be like "I'll be Valjean," like "Okay, and I'll be like
one of the people in the pub." But who else from our mates would we cast
as the main roles: And we were just always intrigued by it. And I used to watch films,
my brother would be outside playing football and I would be sat in front of the TV all the time and
I would finish a VHS and I would rewind it straight away and I'd watch it all through again
I suppose just looking for different things to pick up. And I was always really keen to track
actors in different films and be like "Oh they were in this," like "That girl was in Uncle Buck and
she was also in Sleepless in Seattle." And I just sort of enjoyed tracking people's
moves, I suppose. So yeah, that's why I got into it. But I just didn't know how, I didn't
know how to penetrate that world that seems so far out of my reach.
- What to you makes a good script? What do you look for or what do you find in a piece of writing where you're like you know
what, I really want to be involved in this? What sticks out to you? - I don't know. I was never really
confident in my taste especially when it comes to writing. I have a very-- I mean I loved it. I have a
very basic education. And in terms of the English language, I don't excel in any sort of
writing myself. So I was always sort of fairly lacking in confidence when it comes to analysing
the script and being assured in my own taste, that is this good, is this not? And I used to send it to
friends and say like, writer friends, what do you think of this? Is this any good? And I think
it might have been Sex Ed where I read it and thought, I don't care what anyone else thinks,
I think this is brilliant. It was funny, it was so morish, I would get through
an episode in like 15 minutes because I just couldn't put it down. And that for me is enough.
The same with Chloe. I just couldn't stop and I wanted to know more. Sometimes if I know it just
feels a bit hard to get through, it's a bit of a slog, I know that maybe it's not the one for me.
- Let's talk a bit more about Sex Education because without a doubt it's one of the best tv series
that's come out, I would say in the last decade. I think it's really shaped how young people can think of
themselves and they can see themselves in these characters. And you've been able to cast these
people properly plays such an important role. A lot of these actors had never worked professionally
before so how did you find this amazing talent? - It was just... we met a lot of people and
the great thing was we we had no pressure to cast people who were established, who had a
body of work, which was brilliant. I think we were one of Netflix UK's original shows.
So there was no pressure there which was brilliant and we just made sure that we met a lot of people
who were within the appropriate age bracket. And if we saw someone that
we thought was really special but not right, we remembered them for something else because it was quite a big
ensemble. But it was just making sure that we kept a very open mind and met a lot of people.
And were confident in our taste and our instincts and knew who we wanted to push forward really.
- Have you ever had an experience where you've picked your cast members, they're all amazing individually
and then in rehearsals for some bizarre reason the chemistry has just been off
between the actors? Has that ever happened? - Not yet because I'm very good at my job.
I'm joking. But no, not yet, but I'm sure I will. But that's because I suppose we are spending so much
time putting these people together and making sure they have it before we offer them the job.
- Yeah yeah yeah. Do you have any casting techniques then or exercises that you use to ensure that the
chemistry is there before you sign the dotted line with those actors?
- We like to get them in... so when we get them into the room to do the scenes, we get them into the waiting
area first, whether it's an hour or half an hour and they just sit and they chat and they meet one
another. There's no worse thing than just staying in the room, "Okay here's your love interest, off
you go." I mean, it's so unnatural. So we try to get them chatting and comfortable with one another
before they go in. Especially when when we went on to season two and three, these characters
had become so well loved that actually some people came in and were slightly star-struck.
So of course that is immediately quite jarring for someone to come in and have to contend with.
So we just try to put everyone at ease first and give them a bit of time to acclimatise maybe.
- And how important is it for you to keep up these relationships
and keep them positive to bring these same actors back at other projects that you
might be working on in the future? - Yeah it's really important because it's great to
have actors that you know are really good and solid and reliable and brilliant and it's great to
help guide their careers. You know, people like Alistair Petrie has an astonishing career and
always has, but Sex Ed has sort of elevated that to another level which is brilliant. And if O can help
in any way facilitate that, I'm thrilled. But also, as nice as it is to have those
relationships where you do bring in the same people, it's also really nice to give
new people an opportunity which is the balance that I'm trying to strike. Some work in progress.
- So what's the role of a casting director in ensuring equal representation on screen?
- I mean, we don't hold that much power but we bang
that drum and we can bang it. And if people are listening then it's great. And if people aren't
then it's like you know, it's frustrating. But we'll do all we can to push forward the fight
full representation on inclusivity. And for us specifically as a casting office, we always try to
seek out those from underrepresented groups rather than wait for them to be suggested because it's
not necessarily them with the theatrical agents and stuff. So we try to look further afield and
throw that net a little bit wider, whether that's going to social media or just doing our own
research and trying to build on those databases rather than being complacent thinking, "Oh well
if they're out there and they're interested they'll be suggested." So I suppose it's that. But we do
try to challenge a lot of the time and say well what about this role and could we open this up?
And then what we tend to do is present it sometimes in a visual way,
to say what about changing this up and presenting the paradigm if we're not penetrating
that and the conversation's not going the way that it should. But it is improving. It just... more needs to be done all the time.
- Yeah, and I feel like authenticity, I suppose, in casting whether
that's a sense of place or a sense of genuine identity, that's casting a Welsh person in a
Welsh role or someone who's non-binary that is a non-binary actor as well.
- Yeah, that's really important to us. So when we were casting Cal in season three, we only saw non-binary actors.
And now we're looking for two trans characters, we're only meeting trans actors. When it comes
to casting a welsh person, for example we're doing an episode of something
at the moment and it's all based in Wales and the main protagonist is Welsh. And at one point
they suggested that we would cast someone to play Welsh. And I was like, no no no. I think if you want to cast around
for the other ensemble, I understand that. Look at save the cinema or look at Pride,
and that's great because you've got vast ensembles and you do need to look further afield. And I
would never want to pigeonhole Welsh people thinking that they couldn't do other accents.
But when it comes to people from marginalised communities and underrepresented
groups, then I think authenticity is the only way forward. - Has social media had an impact
on how you cast projects? - Yeah, I mean we don't really use it for all briefs but we do use it if
we have a very difficult brief. During lockdown we had to find a Nigerian grandmother in her 70s or 80s
to play Eric's grandmother in Sex Ed. And we had no suggestions at all on Spotlight.
No one with a theatrical agency. So we put it out on twitter, we had two suggestions
and one was amazing, perfect. - Wow, really? So it does pay to branch our and try and find people.
- And she'd never acted a day in her life. And she was just a superstar and she loved it. I think her daughter had some sort of
TikTok account and that's how she found it. And the word had spread and we were very lucky that
it's Sex Ed and it has a following so people are sharing it left right and centre. But yeah
it has had a really positive impact. And with our recent Sex Ed search for the new trans characters,
we put it on Twitter and that's been incredible. - So if you could give one golden piece of advice
that you would give yourself when you first started working in the casting world, maybe
a bump in the road that you faced and something you figured out along the way, what would it be?
- Oh my god, so many. - Sorry, I know it's a very existential question. - My favourite thing is
research is key. Always go beyond the sort of natural means, always look beyond. I'm forever... and
I'm sure my office hate me, I'm always like, Melissa can we have a look at, you know, whether it's like
new up and coming American actors or we try to cover a lot of different tv shows.
I might watch something that I might not necessarily watch because it's not a genre I like
or I've heard mixed reviews about it. But it's also about watching stuff so you see who
is doing what at the moment, what have they just taken, who are they playing opposite, what's that
type of role that they've just played, okay so they don't want to play that again in the next
project or whatever. So I think it's just research, you can never do enough. Whether
it's building your databases, whether it's educate yourself about new actors,
watching different tv shows, learning about different directors and producers.
That's my thing, is research is key. I would never ever want to be that person that says
"I've seen everyone there is to see." I never want to be that person. " will always be like, "There's more.
I'll find more." And I might caveat that with, "I'll find you more, but they will,
you know, they won't be very good." This will be the last one type of thing. But I'll
never want to say, "This is your lot, thank you very much, pick from this bunch."
- I love that. It's almost like the search is never over. And I know you mentioned earlier,
I mean even if someone isn't right for the specific role that you're casting then and there
they're always in the back pocket. Has that happened a lot where you've ended up
reapproaching an actor saying, "Really sorry you didn't get that job that you wanted but there's something
here that might be perfect for you"? - Always and we did it on Sex Ed. I mean not on the job
but the roles. Aimee Lou Wood met for Lily and then she booked Aimee. And then Trish who plays Ola
met for like three roles and then booked that. So it's just finding someone thinking, "Oh god,
I love their quality but that's not quite right," and then let's just keep them in mind.
And you're like, "Oh this one's just come up. Great." But you're always seeing people and
it's never a wasted opportunity ever because they will always stay in the back of your mind,
for good or for a bad. But they will always stay with you. - That's a good point actually.
You don't have a name and shame here obviously, but has anyone ever taken you by surprise
where you thought "Oh god no they really just didn't have it at all and then you've seen them a couple
of months or couple of years later for something different and they completely knock out the park?
- Yeah, I mean some people do just develop and grow and just improve at it which of course you
do if you're doing it all the time. You do practice and you get better. And I suppose there's a time
where you'll see someone, you think "Oh maybe that wasn't quite what I was looking for," but it depends.
It depends how bad it was or how off-piste it was and whether that was a decision or whether
that was them you know not taking your direction depending sort of what setting that was in.
But yeah there's definitely been times where you've seen people when time has gone on and they've
just eased into it or maybe they've become more comfortable with the way that they act and maybe
they don't want it as much and that really helps as well. When you relax a little bit more you don't
put so much pressure on yourself.
- What's the most rewarding thing about your job Lauren?
- I suppose it's giving them the opportunity and then it happening.
We love to do the calls, "The job is yours" and the reaction is brilliant. We did
it last week for this guy that came in probably about five times for a series
and the agent cried and then she called us back and she said he's just cried and he's
been waiting for this opportunity. We're like, "We know!" And it's so lovely just to be able to offer
that. And I suppose the crux of it is you're giving someone maybe some financial
stability. And then on the flip side they're getting to do the job of their
dreams and they got the role they want. But yeah, I think that's the most rewarding part of it.