>> WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET
PEOPLE VACCINATED.
CNBC’S DOM CHEW WITHU WITH A LOO
AHEAD.
>>> LET’S BRING INTO THE
CONVERSATION BOSTON GLOBE
COLUMNIST AND CO-HOST OF THE
HASHTAG SISTERS-IN-LAW PODCAST,
KIMBERLY ATKINS, AND AUTHOR OF
WINNERS TAKE ALL, PUBLISHER OF
THE NEWS LETTER ENTITLED THE
INC, ANNAN GEAR DAR TSA.
MIKE BARNICLE IS BACK WITH US AS
WELL.
WE WANT TO START WITH YOUR NEW
PIECE FOR "THE ATLANTIC"
ENTITLED "WELCOME TO THE NEW
PROGRESSIVE ERA."
AND YOU WRITE IN PART THIS, THE
CONVERSATION I’VE HAD IN RECENT
WEEKS HAVE PAINTED A PORTRAIT OF
AN IMPROBABLE COMING-TOGETHER OF
PEOPLE AND FORCES.
A MODERATE PRESIDENT WITH AN
ASCENDANT PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT
AT HIS BACK AND AT HIS THROAT,
FACING A ONCE IN A GENERATION
WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY.
IT’S STILL EARLY.
IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF THIS
MOMENTUM WILL CONTINUE.
IF THE INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN
MUSTERS THE VOTES, IF THE
UNGAINLY SANDERS DIMENSION
COALITION HOLDS, BUT FOR NOW, A
CAPITOL THAT HAS BEEN DEFINED IN
RECENT YEARS BY THE ABSENCE OF
USEFUL ACTION BUBBLES WITH
GENERATIVE POSSIBILITY.
AND MANY OF US WHO THOUGHT WE
KNEW WHAT A BIDEN PRESIDENT
WOULD LOOK LIKE AND DIDN’T
EXPECT MUCH FROM IT ARE SUDDENLY
ASKING OURSELVES, HOW DID WE GET
HIM SO WRONG?
ANAND, IT SEEMS LIKE BIDEN’S
EXPERIENCE OVER THE PAST 30, 40,
50 YEARS HAS LED TO A LOT OF
STORIES AND SORT OF STEREOTYPES
OF WHAT A BIDEN PRESIDENCY MIGHT
LOOK LIKE, BUT THE MAN WHO IS
PRESIDENT NOW IS A WHOLE LOT
DIFFERENT THAN THE BIDEN WE KNEW
20, 30, 40 YEARS AGO AND PERHAPS
THAT’S WHY THERE IS THIS WINDOW
OF OPPORTUNITY.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
YOU KNOW, I DECIDED TO HOME
BOUND AS I AM, DECIDED TO JUST
SPEND A LOT OF O’TIME ON THE PHO
IN RECENT WEEKS TALKING TO THE
CAMPERS IN THIS BIG TENT, AND
TALKED TO EVERYBODY FROM, YOU
KNOW, MANCHIN TO LARRY SUMMERS
TO PROGRESSIVES, CONGRESSWOMAN
JAYAPAL AND OTHER PROGRESSIVES,
AND THE THING THAT I HEARD AGAIN
AND AGAIN WAS SURPRISE, ALL
MANNER OF SURPRISE.
AND I THINK WHAT YOU’RE SEEING
IS A STRANGE MARRIAGE OF MAN AND
MOVEMENT AND MOMENT, SO THE MAN
IS, AS YOU SAID, A HISTORICALLY
MODERATE PERSON, SOMEONE
ASSOCIATED WITH THE CENTRIST
WING OF THE PARTY, MORE
CORPORATE FRIENDLY WING OF THE
PARTY.
HE RAN AND WON DESPITE A SECOND
THING GOING ON, WHICH IS A
PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT THAT
INCREASINGLY HAS SET THE TERMS
OF THE CONVERSATION AND WON A
BATTLE OF IDEAS IN THE PARTY AS
MANY MODERATES TOLD ME FOR THIS
PIECE, EVEN THOUGH THEY DIDN’T
WIN THE PRIMARY.
AND SO YOU GOT THE MAN AND THE
MOVEMENT IN SOMEWHAT TENSION BUT
ALSO AS I SAID IN THE PIECE, AT
HIS BACK ASK AT HIS THROAT THE
MOVEMENT IS.
AND THEN FINALLY THE MOMENT, AND
THERE’S KIND OF TWO COMPONENTS
OF THE MOMENT.
THERE’S THE ACUTE MOMENT WE’RE
IN OF COVID, THE PLAGUE, THIS
KIND OF ONCE IN A GENERATION
POLITICAL OPPORTUNITY TO DO
SOMETHING BIG BECAUSE OF HOW BAD
THINGS ARE, BUT ALSO THE
ACCUMULATION OF CHRONIC CRISES,
THE DEATH OF THE AMERICAN DREAM
FRAC
FRANKLY OVER THE LAST
GENERATION, AND WITHOUT COVID,
PERHAPS THERE WOULDN’T BE THE
POLITICAL WILL TO DO BIG THINGS.
AND SO ULTIMATELY, THE KIND OF
PICTURE I FOUND OF JOE BIDEN
THROW ALL THESE CONVERSATIONS
WAS SOMEONE WHO IS A COALITIONAL
POLITICIAN, NOT A STAR.
SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY WILLING
TO KIND OF BE THE SUM OF THE
PARTS OF HIS COALITION, SOMEONE
WHO’S MAKING PROGRESSIVES,
MODERATES, BUSINESS FOLKS AND
OTHERS FEEL HEARD AND SEEN AND
LISTEN TO IN WAYS THAT RICHARD
TRUMP FROM THE AIL, OTHER
ADMINISTRATIONS USED TO CALL US
AND TELL US A DECISION.
THIS ADMINISTRATION CALLS US TO
ASK US WHAT THE DECISION SHOULD
BE.
IT AMOUNTS IN MY VIEW TO
POTENTIALLY, 2021 BEING A BREAK
NOT JUST FRR 2017 AND TRUMPISM,
NOT JUST FROM 2009 AND THE KIND
OF LIMITED RESPONSE TO A
PREVIOUS CRISIS BUT REALLY A
BREAK FROM 1981 AND THE DAWN OF
THE AGE OF REAGAN WITH THE
FUNDAMENTAL ASSUMPTION THAT
GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM, THE
IDEA OF GOVERNMENT IS A
REDEMPTIVE FORCE TO MAKE
PEOPLE’S LIVES BETTER IS BACK.
>> SO KIMBERLY ATKINS, DO YOU
AGREE?
>> I THINK SO.
I THINK WITHER SEEING THAT.
LOOK, I THINK THAT THIS HAS TO
DO WITH A NUMBER OF FACTORS,
INCLUDING JUST BEING IN A
POST-TRUMP ERA WHERE DEMOCRATS
FROM ACROSS THE IDEOLOGICAL
SPECTRUM ARE INCENTIVIZED NOW
THAT THEY ARE IN POWER, IN
CONGRESS, AND IN THE WHITE HOUSE
TO WORK TOGETHER, TO FIND THE
PLACES WHERE THEY CAN AGREE, TO
LISTEN TO EACH OTHER IN ORDER TO
MOVE FORWARD AND DO WHAT ALL OF
THEM WANT TO DO, WHICH IS
REVERSE NOT ONLY THE POLICIES
THAT DONALD TRUMP AND
CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS HAVE
PUT IN PLACE OVER THE YEARS BUT
REVERSE THE COURSE OF THE
COUNTRY, REVERSE THE TONE AND
THE MESSAGING IN THIS COUNTRY
AND MOVE FORWARD.
SO EACH AND EVERY DEMOCRAT IN
WASHINGTON IS INCENTIVIZED TO DO
THAT.
I THOUGHT WE SAW SOME SIGNS
ALONG THE WAY, LOANALONG THE
CAMPAIGN THAT JOE BIDEN WOULD BE
WILLING TO LISTEN TO MORE
PROGRESSIVE FOLKS.
WE SAW THAT WITH THE PEOPLE WHO
HE SURROUNDED HIMSELF WITH,
INCLUDING SENATOR ELIZABETH
WARREN.
WE SAW THAT IN HIS PICK FOR
KAMALA HARRIS AS VICE PRESIDENT.
SO PERHAPS I’M A LITTLE LESS
SURPRISED THAT THIS IS PLAYING
OUT, BUT CERTAINLY THE EXTENT OF
WHICH I WAS NOT EXPECTING OF,
FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE
INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN FOR THAT TO
INCLUDE A PLAN TO RESTORE
NEIGHBORHOODS, BLACK
NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WERE REALLY
DESTROYED WITH HIGHWAY BUILDING
IN THE MID-CENTURY.
I REALLY DIDN’T EXPECT A LOT OF
THINGS THAT ARE VERY
PROGRESSIVE, VERY
FORWARD-LOOKING AND VERY MUCH IN
KEEPING WITH THE MOMENT THAT
WE’VE SEEN IN THE LAST YEAR OF
THE CALL FOR RACIAL JUSTICE
BEYOND POLICING.
SO I AM SOMEWHAT SURPRISED BUT I
THINK WE SAW A BIT OF THIS
COMING.
>> ANAND, AS YOU SAY ONE OF THE
CRITICISMS OF JOE BIDEN IN THE
PRIMARY SEASON IS THAT HE WAS
GOING TO BE TOO CENTRIST, THAT
HE WOULDN’T BE THE VESSEL FOR
PROGRESSIVE IDEAS THAT MOST
DEMOCRATS HAD HOPED FOR.
IN FACT, WHEN HE WAS CRITICIZED
BY DONALD TRUMP AS BEING TOO
PROGRESSIVE OR PART OF THE
RADICAL LEFT TO USE HIS TERM, I
THINK VOTERS SORT OF SHRUGGED
THAT OFF LOOKING AT JOE BIDEN’S
RECORD AS NOT BEING ULTRA
PROGRESSIVE.
SO DOES THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE
SURPRISE, THE FACT THAT HE WAS
SEEN AS THE GUY IN THAT BIG
FIELD OF CANDIDATES AS THE ONE
WHO MAY NOT, IN FACT, BE MOST
REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MODERN
DEMOCRATIC PARTY?
>> YEAH, AND I THINK THERE’S A
FUNNY DYNAMIC WHERE, FIRST OF ALL, TO HIS CREDIT, I THINK
ALL, TO HIS CREDIT, I THINK
BIDEN IS SOMETHING INCREDIBLY
COUNTERCULTURAL
COUNTERCULTURAL, WHICH IS HE’S
PERSUADABLE
PERSUADABLE.
AS SOMEONE WHO WORKED FOR HIM
FOR A LONG TIME TOLD ME, YOU
KNOW, HE WAS IN IOWA BACK IN THE
PRIMARY, AND ALTHOUGH HE ENDED
UP WINNING THE OVERALL RACE, HE
SAW THAT IT WAS THE SANDERS AND
WARREN CAMPS IN IOWA THAT HAD
BIG BOISTEROUS CROWDS, AND HIS,
AS THE MEDIA REPORTED AT THE
TIME, WERE QUITE THIN.
SO HE SAW LIKE A STAND-UP COMIC
IN A ROOM NOTICING WHEN YOU’RE
GETTING THE LAUGHS, HE SAW WHERE
THE ENERGY WAS.
HE PREVAILED, AND THEN HE WAS
WILLING THROUGH THE UNITY TASK
FORCES THAT HE HAD WITH THE
SANDERS’ FOLKS ONWARD TO
INCORPORATE A LOT OF THOSE IDEAS
AND CERTAINLY A LOT OF THOSE
PEOPLE.
AND THE OTHER THING IS THERE IS
A -- I THINK A KIND OF PRACTICE
OF SOMETHING I’VE HEARD SO MUCH
IN THIS ADMINISTRATION, THIS
IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, FDR SAID TO
A. PHILLIP RANDOLPH, LABOR
ACTIVIST, MAKE ME DO IT.
IF YOU WANT ME TO DO A BIG
THING, MAKE ME DO IT.
I THINK A LOT OF THE ATTITUDE OF
THIS ADMINISTRATION IS GO MAKE
ME DO IT.
I’M WILLING TO DO IT, BUT I’M
NOT WILLING TO BE THREE MILES
AHEAD OF PUBLIC OPINION.
I’M WILLING TO DO IT IF YOU CAN
PUSH AND PRESSURE PUBLIC OPINION
TO A PLACE WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT’S
READY FOR ME TO DO, AND I THINK
THAT ENDS UP BEING AN INCREDIBLY
POWERFUL COMBINATION THAT COULD
SPELL A TRANSFORMATIONAL
PRESIDENCY AND A PRESIDENCY
AGAINST ALL ODDS GIVEN BIDEN’S
RECORD THAT ENDS UP SHATTERING
THE AGE OF REAGAN, THE CONSENSUS
OF THE REAGAN ERA IN A WAY THAT
THE OBAMA AND CLINTON
PRESIDENCIES ENDED UP NOT.
>> YOU KNOW, IT’S SUCH AN
INTERESTING POINT ABOUT HOW
PRESIDENT BIDEN REACTS TO PUBLIC
OPINION AND HAS OVER THE COURSE
OF HIS CAREER, BUT KIMBERLY AT
ATKINS I’M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR
TAKE ON HOW THE PRESIDENT IS
HANDLING NOT NECESSARILY THE
ISSUES THAT ARE THESE 60/40 OR
70/30 ISSUES WHERE EVEN
REPUBLICANS ARE SUPPORTIVE LIKE
THESE ECONOMIC ISSUES AND A LOT
OF THE THINGS ANAND’S BEEN
TALKING ABOUT BUT SOME OF THE
CULTURAL ISSUES.
I WAS LISTENING TO HOW THE
PRESIDENT SPOKE ABOUT THE RECENT
TRAGIC DEATH OF DAUNTE WRIGHT IN
MINNESOTA AND HE WAS CAREFUL
ABOUT HOW HE TALKED, FOR
EXAMPLE, ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT
AND THE POLICE.
HE DOES WALK THIS CAREFUL KIND
OF MODERATE LINE IN THE LANGUAGE
THAT HE USES AND THE TONE THAT
HE TAKES.
DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS RISK
FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN WITH HIS
PROGRESSIVE BASE AROUND SOME OF
THESE PERHAPS MORE WEDGE
ORIENTED ISSUES THAT REPUBLICANS
REALLY WANT TO USE IN THE
MIDTERMS TO TRY AND TAKE BACK
THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE?
>> YEAH, I DON’T THINK THERE’S
AS MUCH OF A RISK IN THAT, YES,
HE CERTAINLY CAN SPEAK WITH
COMPASSION AND EMPATHY AND A
SENSE OF URGENCY WHEN IT COMES
TO THE TRAGIC DEATHS WE ARE
SEEING OF BLACK PEOPLE AT THE
HANDS OF POLICE, BUT I THINK HE
ALSO UNDERSTANDS SOMETHING THAT
MOST BLACK FOLKS -- AND BY THE
WAY, MOST BLACK VOTERS ARE MORE
MODERATE.
THEY TEND NOT TO BE AS
PROGRESSIVE, BUT HE UNDERSTANDS
THAT BLACK FOLKS WANT POLICE TO
KEEP THEM SAFE.
THEY DON’T WANT THEM TO KILL
THEM.
AND THAT IN PUSHES FOR REFORMS,
IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU MEAN
YOU WANT THE POLICE TO GO AWAY,
DEFUND POLICE MEANS DEFUND THE
WAY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING
UP UNTIL NOW.
SO I THINK HE UNDERSTANDS THAT,
AND I THINK BLACK AMERICANS GET
THAT HE UNDERSTANDS THAT.
IT WAS BLACK AMERICANS IN SOUTH
CAROLINA THAT REALLY SET HIM ON
THE PATH TO THE PRESIDENCY.
BUT I ALSO THINK, AND LIKE I
SAID, THE POLICYS THATIES THAT H
PUTTING FORWARD, THAT HE
UNDERSTANDS THAT THE MOMENT THAT
WE’RE IN REQUIRES REALLY BOLD
AND FORWARD MOVING ACTION WHEN
IT COMES TO RESTORING THE -- AND
PUTTING WITHIN REACH THE
AMERICAN DREAM FOR BLACK
AMERICANS LIKE HE’S TALKING
ABOUT THINGS LIKE REPARATIONS.
HE’S TALKING ABOUT OTHER
MEASURES.
SO I THINK SO FAR HE HAS
REPUBLICAN JUMPED IN.
I THINK ANAND IS RIGHT, IT IS
STILL EARLY.
I’M WAITING TO SEE WHAT ACTUALLY