You have forgiven him.
But
from what I read in your book
and other interviews you've done,
it doesn't sound like he ever apologized.
And we know from testimony that
he gave the impression
to his top White House aides
that were there
when the crowd was chanting
Hang Mike Pence.
He said something along the lines
of according to testimony under oath,
maybe they're right about you
So I come from a different
faith tradition
that also believes in forgiveness,
but it also believes in people
seeking forgiveness
when they have done wrong to someone
Well, Jake,
I don't know what was happening
at the White House.
I was at a loading dock at the U.S.
Capitol Building work in the problem and
doing my level best to help facilitate
the arrival of
security personnel
to quell the violence
But what I can tell you is
in the five days
following January six, I,
I made no effort to contact the president
you said the things publicly
that I believe needed to be said,
committed
to a peaceful transfer of power,
condemning the violence
that had taken place
But when his daughter, Ivanka
and son in law
came to my office as I write
and so help me God
announced on that following Monday,
if I'd be willing to sit down
with the president.
And I
told them I wasn't looking for a meeting,
but if he had something to say
to me, I'd hear him out.
Now, I walked down to the Oval Office
that you've been to many times
into that back
hallway in the small dining room
where the president
and I had spent so many productive hours
working through issues at home
and abroad.
The progress that we had made
for a stronger, more prosperous country,
a lot of it had happened
over that small dining room table.
But I walked into the room and the
president's
chief of staff was present,
but he quickly left
the
president looked up at me and
he asked if
Karen and Charlotte were okay
And I said tersely,
They're fine, Mr.
President.
And he said, Were you scared?
And I said, No, I was angry.
I was angry about the differences we had.
And I was
I told him, seeing those people
ransacking the Capitol, infuriating me
But we sat for more than an hour
and a half.
And I was candid with the president
about my disappointment.
And I must tell you that
I sensed
the president was deeply remorseful
in that moment.
Now, I know that's at odds with people's
public perception about him.
But I want to tell you, it was true.
I could tell he
was saddened by what had happened.
And
we spoke through it that day.
And I encouraged him to pray.
He told me many times
that he was a believer.
And I told him,
turn to Jesus.
Hoping that he would find
a comfort there
that I was finding in that moment.
In the days that followed,
I made my way back in that office for
another meeting. And the president.
Days later,
was still what I would call downcast
His voice was fainter
than I ever remember at any time
in our four and a half years together.
And
after we finished talking through some
end of the administration business, I
reminded him that I was praying for him
And he was dismissive about it.
But as our meeting came to a close,
I stood up
and he was seated at that small table
and I looked at him and I said,
I guess
there's just two things
we'll probably never agree on.
And he looked up and
said, What
And I referred
to my role on January six
And then I said,
I'm never going to stop praying for you.
And he smiled faintly and said,
That's right.
Don't ever change.
And we parted amicably.
As much as we could
in the aftermath of those events.
We spoke from time to time
after we both left office.
But, Jake,
after after the president
returned to the rhetoric
that he was using
before that tragic day in January,
criticizing me and others who had taken
a stand for the Constitution
of the United States,
I just determined
it was best to go our separate ways.
And we have.
But I truly do believe and
in those moments,
he was saddened by what had happened,
and he conveyed that to me and
in ways that
that I'll never forget.