JUDY WOODRUFF: The United States has left Afghanistan, but it is just part of one region
that Marine Corps General Frank McKenzie counts as his responsibility. He oversees the Middle
East and Southwest Asia as the top general at U.S. Central Command.
Not only did he oversee the evacuation of Afghanistan, but he commands troops throughout
the region, especially in Syria and Iraq, and must keep his eyes on Iran. It is a full
docket.
And he sat down with Nick Schifrin this morning.
NICK SCHIFRIN: General Frank McKenzie, commander of CENTCOM, thank you very much.
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE, Commander, U.S. Central Command: I'm glad to be here today. Thanks
for having me, Nick.
NICK SCHIFRIN: What is the threat, as you see it, from Iran, and how is CENTCOM postured
to confront it?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: So, I think Iran is, first, the most serious threat we face in
the region today.
And I think the threat manifests itself in several dimensions. First is their expanded
ballistic missile force, which they have developed carefully over the last few years. And just
over the past couple of three years, we have seen the addition of land attack cruise missiles,
and UAS's.
NICK SCHIFRIN: UAS is drones, essentially.
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: Unmanned aerial systems. Can be drones, typically of different sizes
that they could choose to employ.
The other thing that is very concerning is their proxy forces, principally in the region,
but also has the capability to manifest itself globally. Now, the Iranian nuclear program
is also another area of concern. The diplomats are working very hard to find a way to reenter
an agreement with them.
And we -- at CENTCOM, we try to do everything we can to support our diplomats as they pursue
that goal.
NICK SCHIFRIN: So, nuclear program, proxies, and missiles.
If tens of thousands of U.S. troops that you command in the region, dozens of bases, can't
deter Iran from advancing on all three of those aspects, what can?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: Well, so actually, what we have done is, we have deterred Iran from
state-on-state conflict over the last couple of years.
And I think that's a testament to the posture we have had in the theater.
NICK SCHIFRIN: But the three problems that the U.S. has long had with Iran, as you just
identified, have actually advanced, right?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: They have advanced, and they're going to continue to advance.
And I don't think any posturing or any other force elements we put in the theater are going
to affect that, because they reflect national decisions made by Iran.
But what we can do and what we should strive to do is affect Iranian behavior toward their
neighbors.
NICK SCHIFRIN: The diplomatic engagement in Iran, of course, is ongoing today.
Iran has increased its enrichment of uranium to 60 percent. Is there a military plan if
Iran increases that enrichment to 90 percent, which would be weapons-grade?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: We have all kinds of plans for Iran, which I'm not going to be
able to discuss with you, as you will appreciate.
I think the best course of action with Iran remains the diplomatic track.
NICK SCHIFRIN: There have been U.S. assets deployed to Israel, deployed off the coast
of Israel to help with Israel's air defenses.
What would CENTCOM's role be in any kind of military conflict between Israel and Iran?
Would the U.S. essentially be dragged in?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: Well, I think we will help Israel defend themselves, should that
become a necessity.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Does that mean that the U.S. military would participate in any kind of
military action between Israel and Iran?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: So, as you will appreciate, that is uniquely a political decision, not
a military decision. So, I will leave that one alone.
NICK SCHIFRIN: There have been attacks, including an assassination attempt, against the Iraqi
prime minister that Iran says it didn't authorize.
But what is the threat of militias in Iraq, given that those groups are a little less
centrally controlled than before?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: So, they are less centrally controlled. And I think we would agree with
that assertion.
However, they're all armed, ultimately, by Iran. So Iran has a profound moral responsibility
for the actions those groups take. Really, the Iraqis have got to take this action against
the Shia paramilitary forces that, actually, as you noted, are a little bit out of control.
And I think that that risk is probably going to rise over time.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Why are you confident that the training you're doing for Iraqi forces
won't end up as it has in the past? Iraqi military folded in the past, as you know.
And we just saw the Afghan military, whom we trained for 20 years, fold. Why won't it
be the same story there?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: In both cases, the Iraqis folded and the Afghans folded because we left.
We're not leaving. We're going to keep a small platform there that's going to be able to
do advise and assist. And that's the key difference in both those situations. And it's important
to note that.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Let's move to let's move to Syria.
I want to start with civilian casualties there. CENTCOM recently said a December 3 drone strike
in Syria might have killed civilians. And we actually saw a video posted by a member
of the family that says they were the victims.
What happened?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: We're investigating it right now. And I can't share any more information
on it.
I would tell you this. We take it very seriously. We will investigate it very quickly, and we
will have something out here very soon on that.
NICK SCHIFRIN: There was another case of civilian casualties back in March of 2019 at the end
of the war against ISIS in a town called Baghuz.
Your initial investigation found the airstrikes killed four civilians and the strikes were
in legitimate self-defense. But you also admitted, in that investigation, you couldn't conclusively
characterize the status of more than 60 casualties.
This is also under investigation by the Department of Defense right now. The New York Times reported
there were more than 70 fatalities.
Do you believe your initial investigation got it wrong?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: I really can't tell you anything about it. We have an ongoing investigation,
so I'm sort of -- the best thing I can do right now is just be silent, wait until this
very thorough investigation is complete.
NICK SCHIFRIN: People who were involved in the initial Pentagon inspectors general report
told The New York Times CENTCOM slow-walked information and even removed an initial legal
opinion that said a violation of the law of armed conflict may have taken place.
Do you believe that's what happened?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: I don't believe that's what happened.
But what I believe actually doesn't matter here, because it's going to be investigated
and we will all know.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Can I zoom out and ask you, do you believe there's any problem with the
command climate, or any problem with special operators and how they call in airstrikes,
that lead to these kinds of incidents?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: I think we had a very long, tough fight in Iraq and Syria.
In 2018 and 2019, we called in about 6,000 strikes. That's a lot of strikes. We have
gone to elaborate lengths to prevent civilian casualties. I cannot tell you in every case
that we have been able to achieve that goal.
I can tell you that, when we know about it, when we have an opportunity to learn that
civilian casualties may have occurred, we do investigate it.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Let's zoom out.
In Syria, main objective, of course, is to prevent the return of the caliphate. But we
have seen ISIS cells in Eastern Syria expand. We have also seen ISIS cells in Southern Syria
attack inside Northern Iraq.
Do you believe the mission is working?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: I believe the mission is working, and here's why.
We never have predicted a bloodless future with ISIS. We have always thought that ISIS
is an ideology of the mind, so it's going to recur. What you want to be able to do,
though, is keep it local and you want local forces to be able to deal with it. And, increasingly,
that's what we're seeing, certainly in the case of Iraq.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Let's talk about Afghanistan.
Since the U.S. withdrawal, have you identified any targets, and have you proposed any airstrikes
inside Afghanistan?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: So, those are all operational details.
I would tell you that we continue to look in Afghanistan for particularly ISIS-K targets
and al-Qaida targets. And that process continues.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Are you able to see those targets?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: It's a difficult thing.
You know, we keep -- we are able to bring platforms in overhead to take a look. We're
able to -- in the long term, perhaps we can reestablish some relationships on the ground.
NICK SCHIFRIN: I wanted to go to Lebanon.
How worried are you about government collapse in Lebanon, and what would its impact be?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: I believe this is a very dangerous time for the government of Lebanon,
and they need to -- they need to do some actions to get their own house in order, if they're
going to be able to go to the various international agencies that can provide them some relief
to restructure their debt.
NICK SCHIFRIN: The Lebanese military, of course, has been the one institution that's widely
trusted, or at least has legitimacy among many Lebanese, but it's on the verge of bankruptcy.
You recently met with the commander of the Lebanese Armed Forces. What more is the U.S.
willing to do in order to make sure the Lebanese Armed Forces stay viable?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: Well, I agree with you that the Lebanese Armed Forces are probably
the best example of an institution in the country that has relative trust by everyone.
We need to take action to ensure that the LAF survive.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Do you believe that they might not survive?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: I think this is the most dangerous period they have been in for quite
a while.
They have an extraordinarily capable and good commander. I think he's doing everything he
can with the resources that he has. They're going to continue to need help.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Thirty thousand feet on the region and China.
Do you feel pressure by policy-makers, who are more focused on China, when it comes to
the capacities that you have in the Middle East?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: We need to be oriented on China as the pacing threat for us.
And, with that in mind, we need to allocate resources conscious of that threat. However,
China is a global problem, not just a Western Pacific problem. China has increasing interests
in the region, and we're going to see increasing Chinese activities in the region as a result
of that, principally economic now. In the long term, it could be military. Hard to know.
NICK SCHIFRIN: China has, exactly as you just said, militarily tried to increase its presence,
even through the United Arab Emirates.
What's the impact of Chinese military actions on U.S. partners?
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: So, I think U.S. partners are looking for U.S. assurance. They want
to know that we're going to stay around.
The Department of Defense has given them that message of assurance. Look, the partner of
choice is the United States. No one partners with China by choice, because, first of all,
the capability of their weapons is significantly limited. Also, the debt trap diplomacy that
comes with China coming into a country, many of the countries in the region have seen the
practice of that in the Pacific, so they're very concerned about that.
NICK SCHIFRIN: But, as you know, from Jordan, Israel, even Saudi Arabia and the UAE, they
do question U.S. commitment to the region. They have seen multiple presidents now talk
about wanting less of a footprint in the Middle East.
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: And we do have less of a footprint in the Middle East, but we're
still here. And we're still able, if necessary, to decisively alter events in the theater.
NICK SCHIFRIN: General Frank McKenzie, thank you very much.
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: Thank you, Nick.