>>> NEVER FAR FROM A HEADLINE OR A FRESH IDEA FOR THIS COUNTRY,
VERMONT SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS
IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN
POLITICS TODAY.
POLITICS TODAY. HE’S RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT WHILE
CONTINUING TO PUSH FOR NEW
LEGISLATION IN THE SENATE.
HE HAS PLENTY OF MONEY AND
GOODWILL TO DRAW UPON AFTER HIS
RUN FOUR YEARS AGO.
BUT EVEN WITH ALL THAT, HE HAS A
UNIQUE CHALLENGE THIS TIME
AROUND.
AROUND. IN NEARLY EVERY POLL HE’S NEAR
THE TOP OF THE FIELD OF MORE
THAN 20 DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES.
IN NEARLY EVERY EARLY POLL HE’S
TRAILING VICE PRESIDENT JOE
BIDEN.
BIDEN. NOW IN SANDERS’ NEIGHBORING
STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, POLLING
SHOWS MR. BIDEN WITH A TWO TO
ONE ADVANTAGE OVER THE SENATOR.
MR. BIDEN IS PUBLICLY PREDICTING
A SHORT PRIMARY RACE.
JOINING ME NOW ON "POLITICS
NATION," BERNIE SANDERS.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US,
SENATOR.
SENATOR. >> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU, AL.
>> SENATOR, I WANT TO GET TO
YOUR LEGISLATION THAT YOU AND
CONGRESSWOMAN ALEXANDRIA
CONGRESSWOMAN ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ HAS PROPOSED.
IS THERE A POINT WHERE YOU START
GOING AFTER JOE BIDEN?
WILL YOU CONFRONT HIM IN THE
DEBATES, WILL YOU CONFRONT HIM
TO SHOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
BIDEN AND BERNIE?
>> AL, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT
PARTICULAR NEW HAMPSHIRE POLL,
THEY HAD TWO-THIRDS OF THE
PEOPLE THAT THEY REACHED OUT TO
WERE OVER THE AGE OF 50.
AND THAT’S NOT THE WAY THE
PEOPLE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTE.
I THINK IT WAS A SELECTION OF
OLDER PEOPLE, WHICH IS NOT
ACCURATE.
ACCURATE. I FEEL VERY GOOD ABOUT THE
CAMPAIGN.
CAMPAIGN. WE HAVE OVER A MILLION
VOLUNTEERS.
VOLUNTEERS. THERE WAS A POLL THAT CAME OUT
JUST A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THAT
THAT HAS ME WINNING IN NEW
HAMPSHIRE AND I’M CONFIDENT WE
ARE GOING TO WIN IN NEW
HAMPSHIRE.
HAMPSHIRE. AND THE REASON I THINK WE’RE
GOING TO WIN THIS ELECTION, WIN
THE PRIMARY ELECTION AND DEFEAT
TRUMP, IS THAT THE ISSUES THAT
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE THE
ISSUES THAT ARE ON THE HEARTS
AND MINDS OF THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. YOU KNOW, AND THAT IS THE -- YOU
KNOW, THE INCREDIBLE CORPORATE
AGREED THAT WE ARE SEEING AND
WHAT UNFETTERRED CAPITALISM IS
DOING TO THIS COUNTRY.
WHAT ALEXANDRIA AND I ARE
TALKING ABOUT, AL, IS THE
ABSURDITY OF WALL STREET MAKING
TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS BY
CHARGING WORKING PEOPLE
OUTRAGEOUSLY HIGH INTEREST
RATES, 20, 25%, ON LOANS THAT
PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF
THEIR BASIC NEEDS.
YOU’RE LOOKING AT THE
PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY MAKING
TENS OF BILLIONS IN PROFITS,
CHARGING US THE HIGHEST PRICES
IN THE WORLD FOR MEDICINE.
YOU’RE LOOKING AT THE INSURANCE
COMPANIES HAVING A SITUATION
WHERE WE SPEND TWICE AS MUCH PER
CAPITA ON HEALTH CARE AS THE
PEOPLE OF ANY OTHER NATION.
THEY’RE MAKING HUGE PROFITS.
CEOs OF HUGE CORPORATIONS MAKING
300 TIMES WHEN THEIR WORKERS ARE
MAKING.
MAKING. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE SAYING,
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, WE NEED AN
ECONOMY, WE NEED A GOVERNMENT
THAT WORKS FOR ALL OF US, NOT
JUST THE 1%.
THAT’S WHAT OUR CAMPAIGN IS
ABOUT.
ABOUT. >> ARE YOU SAYING, ARE YOU
PLEDGING YOU WILL NOT GO
NEGATIVE ON JOE BIDEN TO CLOSE
THE GAP IN THE NATIONAL POLLS,
ARE YOU PLEDGING THAT YOU’LL
JUST RUN ON POLICY AND NOT GET
INTO PERSONAL ATTACKS EVEN IN A
DEBATE?
DEBATE? >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. LOOK, I DETEST WHAT TAKES PLACE
SO OFTEN IN A MODERN CAMPAIGN.
AND MY FAMILY HAS BEEN A VICTIM
OF THAT.
OF THAT. I MEAN, UGLY, DISGUSTING
OPPOSITION RESEARCH, TRYING TO
RIP APART PEOPLE.
THAT IS NOT WHAT POLITICS SHOULD
BE ABOUT.
BE ABOUT. AND IT’S CERTAINLY NOT WHAT
SHOULD BE TAKING PLACE IN THE
DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.
DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY. >> SO JOE BIDEN CAN RELAX THAT
YOU’RE NOT COMING WITH PERSONAL
ATTACKS.
ATTACKS. HOW WILL YOU DISTINGUISH YOUR
RECORD, SINCE YOU AND HE ARE
CONSIDERED THE FRONT RUNNERS BY
JUST ABOUT EVERY POLL, HOW WILL
YOU DISTINGUISH YOURSELF FROM
JOE BIDEN, WHY, IF I’M WATCHING
THIS SHOW, DO I CHOOSE BERNIE
OVER BIDEN?
OVER BIDEN? >> I THINK THAT YOU LOOK AT OUR
RECORDS, I THINK THAT YOU LOOK
AT OUR VOTES THAT WE HAVE CAST.
JOE SPENT A LONG, LONG TIME IN
THE SENATE.
THE SENATE. I’VE BEEN THERE FOR 13 YEARS, I
WAS IN THE HOUSE BEFORE THAT.
AND I THINK YOU LOOK AT WHAT OUR
VISION IS FOR THE FUTURE OF THIS
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. AND I THINK IF PEOPLE TAKE A
HARD LOOK AT MY VOTING RECORD,
MY VISION, IT’S QUITE DIFFERENT
THAN JOE BIDEN’S IS.
>> HE SAYS HE’S THE MOST
PROGRESSIVE GUY IN THE RACE.
YOU WOULD CONCEDE THAT?
>> HA, NO, I DON’T THINK JOE IS
THE MOST PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE
IN THIS RACE.
LOOK, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT MY
VOTING RECORD, IF YOU LOOK AT MY
VISION, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FACT
THAT OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS,
AL, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND
MUCH OF AMERICA HAS MOVED IN THE
DIRECTION THAT I TALKED ABOUT
FOUR YEARS AGO.
YOU KNOW, FOUR YEARS AGO I SAID
WE’VE GOT TO RAISE THAT MINIMUM
WAGE TO A LIVING WAGE.
15 BUCKS AN HOUR.
OH, PEOPLE SAID, BERNIE, YOU’RE
CRAZY, IT’S TOO EXTREME.
WELL, YOU’VE GOT SEVEN STATES IN
THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE ALREADY
DONE THAT.
DONE THAT. THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
WILL SOON DO THAT.
WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT MEDICARE
FOR ALL, PEOPLE SAID, OH, NOBODY
IN AMERICA WILL SUPPORT THAT.
POLL AFTER POLL UNDERSTANDS THAT
HEALTH CARE IS A HUMAN RIGHT,
NOT A PRIVILEGE.
WE SHOULD NOT BE SPENDING TWICE
AS MUCH PER CAPITA ON HEALTH
CARE AS ANY OTHER NATION.
WE SHOULD MOVE TOWARD MEDICAIDRE
FOR ALL.
FOR ALL. CLIMATE CHANGE.
CLIMATE CHANGE. FOUR YEARS AGO I SAID WE HAD TO
BE BOLD IN TRANSFORMING OUR
ENERGY SYSTEM AWAY FROM FOSSIL
FUEL.
FUEL. WE HAVE TO TAKE ON THE OIL
COMPANIES AND GAS COMPANIES.
CRIMINAL JUST REFORM, EDUCATION
REFORM, MAKING PUBLIC COLLEGES
AND UNIVERSITIES TUITION-FREE.
THOSE ARE IDEAS THAT I TALKED
ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO.
I’M VERY HAPPY THAT MANY
CANDIDATES FROM DOG CATCHER TO
CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES ARE TALKING ABOUT
EXACTLY THOSE ISSUES.
>> SO IN MANY WAYS YOU’RE MOVING
THE PARTY FURTHER AND FURTHER TO
YOUR THINKING AND AWAY FROM THE
THINKING OF PEOPLE LIKE MR.
BIDEN.
BIDEN. ARE YOU GOING TO CONFRONT THAT
IN THE PRIMARIES OR ARE YOU JUST
GOING TO TALK POLICY AND HOPE
PEOPLE GET IT ON THEIR OWN?
>> NO, LOOK, WHAT AN ELECTION IS
SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT, TO MY
MIND, AL, IS NOT DISGUSTING
PERSONAL ATTACKS ON PEOPLE’S
FAMILIES OR ON WHO THEY ARE.
AND I WILL NEVER DO THAT.
BUT SHOULD WE TALK ABOUT, YOU
KNOW, DIFFERENCES OF OPINION?
I HELPED LEAD THE EFFORT AS A
MEMBER OF CONGRESS AGAINST THE
WAR IN IRAQ.
IF YOU GO TO YOUTUBE, HEAR MY
SPEECHES ABOUT WHAT I FEARED
WOULD HAPPEN IN TERMS OF THE
DESTABILIZATION OF THAT REGION.
JOE VOTED FOR THE WAR.
I WAS VERY STRONG IN OPPOSITION
TO OUR TRADE POLICIES, WHETHER
IT’S NAFTA OR PERMANENT NORMAL
TRADE RELATIONS WITH CHINA
BECAUSE I DID NOT WANT TO SEE
AMERICAN WORKERS THROWN OUT ON
THE STREET AS THEIR JOBS MOVED
TO LOW WAGE COUNTRIES.
JOE SUPPORTED THOSE TRADE
AGREEMENTS.
AGREEMENTS. I VOTED AGAINST THE WALL
STREET -- THE WALL STREET
LEGISLATION WHICH MADE IT EASIER
FOR BANKS TO MERGE AND WHICH IN
MY VIEW HELPED LEAD -- LAY THE
GROUNDWORK FOR THE WALL STREET
COLLAPSE OF 2008.
JOE VOTED THE OTHER WAY.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, MORE
RECENTLY, JOE TALKS ABOUT A
MIDDLE ROAD FOR CLIMATE CHANGE.
WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT
CLIMATE CHANGE IS AN EXISTENTIAL
THREAT TO OUR PLANET.
AND THE SCIENTISTS TELL US WE’VE
GOT 12 YEARS TO AGGRESSIVELY
TRANSFORM OUR ENERGY SYSTEM
BEFORE WE HAVE IRREPARABLE HARM
TO OUR COUNTRY AND THE PLANET.
WE HAVE REAL DIFFERENCES.
BUT I LIKE JOE, I RESPECT JOE,
AND I LOOK FORWARD TO AN
ISSUE-ORIENTED CAMPAIGN, NOTHING
TO DO WITH PERSONAL ATTACKS.
>> NOW, IN LINE WITH THE
POLICIES YOU SAID YOU AND
CONGRESSWOMAN ALEXANDRIA
CONGRESSWOMAN ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, YOU BEGAN SAYING,
HAS REALLY LAID OUT A
LEGISLATIVE POLICY THAT WOULD
DEAL WITH A LOT OF WHAT IS GOING
ON IN TERMS OF WHERE WALL STREET
HAS MADE BENEFITS.
HOW DOES THIS IMPACT THE AVERAGE
AMERICAN THAT’S WATCHING THIS
SHOW?
SHOW? >> BIG TIME, AL, BIG TIME.
YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A RECENT
REPORT THAT CAME OUT FROM THE
FED, AND THAT REPORT SAID THAT
HALF OF AMERICA HAS VIRTUALLY NO
WEALTH AT ALL.
PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING IN THE BANK.
YOU’VE GOT HALF OF THIS COUNTRY
LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK.
SO IF A KID GETS SICK OR
SOMEBODY ENDS UP IN THE HOSPITAL
OR YOUR CAR BREAKS DOWN, PEOPLE
HAVE GOT TO BORROW MONEY.
AND THEY USE A CREDIT CARD TO
BORROW THAT MOPE.
AND WHAT
AND WHAT -- MONEY.
-- MONEY. AND WHAT WE FIND IS THAT AT A
TIME WHEN WALL STREET GETS 2.5%
FROM THE FED, THEY’RE CHARGING
MEDIAN INTEREST RATES OF 21%.
HALF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE
PAYING MORE THAN THAT.
THAT, AL, IS USURY.
THAT IS LOAN SHARKING.
AND THAT HAS GOT TO BE ENDED,
BECAUSE WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE PAY
A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THEIR
INCOME ON INTEREST RATES, ON
HIGH DEBTS, BECAUSE THEIR
INCOMES HAVE BEEN STAGNANT.
SO THIS IS -- THIS REALLY DEALS
WITH THE AGREEDGREED GREED OF WA
AND WE HAVE GOT TO END THOSE
TYPE OF USURIOUS INTEREST RATES.
>> WHOEVER IS THE NOMINEE AT THE
END OF THE PRIMARIES IS GOING TO
THEN HAVE TO FACE, WE ASSUME,
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT AMERICA WILL
VOTE FOR SOMEONE THAT HAS
DESCRIBED HIMSELF AS A SOCIALIST
AND THAT THEY WILL NOT SEE YOUR
POLICIES AS A SOCIALIST POLICY
THAT’S CHANGING THE VERY NATURE
OF WHAT THIS COUNTRY, THEY
BELIEVE, WAS BUILT ON?
>> WELL, I AM A DEMOCRATIC
SOCIALIST.
SOCIALIST. AND WHAT THAT MEANS TO ME -- AND
I SHOULD PREFACE THAT, AL, BY
SAYING THAT EVERY MAJOR PIECE OF
LEGISLATION, WHETHER IT WAS
SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE,
MEDICAID, YOU NAME IT, HAS BEEN
DEFINED BY REPUBLICANS FROM WAY
BACK TO TODAY AS BEING
SOCIALISTIC.
SOCIALISTIC. BUT I BELIEVE THAT HEALTH CARE
IS A HUMAN RIGHT.
I BELIEVE THAT MEDICARE IS THE
MOST POPULAR HEALTH INSURANCE
PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY TODAY.
AND I SEE NO REASON WHY OVER A
FOUR-YEAR PERIOD WE SHOULD NOT
EXPAND MEDICARE TO EVERY MAN,
WOMAN, AND CHILD IN THIS
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. AND WE CAN DO THAT AT THE SAME
TIME AS WE SAVE THE AVERAGE
PERSON A SIGNIFICANT SUM OF
MONEY ON HIS OR HER HEALTH CARE
BILLS.
BILLS. I BELIEVE --
>> NOW -- GO AHEAD, I’M SORRY.
>> THAT’S OKAY.
>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
IN ORDER TO WIN THE NOMINATION,
ANY CANDIDATE IS GOING TO BE
CHALLENGED TO GET SIGNIFICANT
BLACK VOTES.
BLACK VOTES. CLEARLY IN THE LAST TWO YEARS
YOU’VE WORKED VERY HARD TO MAKE
AN IMPACT IN TERMS OF BLACK
VOTERS.
VOTERS. YOU WERE WELL-RECEIVED AT
NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK’S
CONVENTION.
CONVENTION. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE RACE
GAP?
GAP? BECAUSE WHEN WE DEAL WITH USURY,
THERE’S A DISPROPORTIONATE
AMOUNT IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
>> THAT’S RIGHT.
>> WHEN WE DEAL WITH ISSUES OF
UNEMPLOYMENT, EVEN IN AN ECONOMY
WHERE WE’VE GOT THE UNEMPLOYMENT
RATE DOWN 3%, BLACKS ARE 7%
UNEMPLOYED, ALMOST DOUBLE.
HOW DO WE CLOSE THE RACE GAP,
WHERE WE HAVE CONVERSATIONS
ABOUT THE RACE PART OF USURY IS
STILL GOING TO LEAVE US UNEQUAL.
S YES,YES.
S YES,YES. >> YES, YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT,
AL.
AL. WE HAVE MASSIVE LEVELS OF INCOME
AND WEALTH DISPARITIES.
WITHIN THAT YOU HAVE RACIAL
DISPARITIES WHERE WHITE FAMILIES
OWN TEN TIMES MORE WEALTH THAN
BLACK FAMILIES, WHERE, AS WAS
RECENTLY REPORTED, UNBELIEVABLY,
BLACK WOMEN IN CHILDBIRTH ARE
DYING AT RATES EQUIVALENT TO
THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES.
INFANT MORTALITY RATES 2.5 TIMES
HIGHER IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
REDLINING EXISTS.
REDLINING EXISTS. THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS
LARGELY RACIST.
LARGELY RACIST. I THINK WHAT WE HAVE TO DO, AND
JIM CLYBURN OF SOUTH CAROLINA
HAD A REALLY GOOD IDEA, HE SAID
10% OF ALL FEDERAL FUNDS SHOULD
GO INTO DISTRESSED COMMUNITIES
WHERE UNEMPLOYMENT IS HIGH,
WHERE THE SCHOOLS ARE
INADEQUATE, AND WHERE HEALTH
CARE IS NOT AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE.
AND THAT WILL MEAN SIGNIFICANTLY
FUNDING COMMUNITIES OF COLOR ALL
OVER THIS COUNTRY.
AND THAT IS WHAT I THINK WE HAVE
GOT TO DO TO BEGIN TO DEAL WITH
THE RACIAL DISPARITIES WHICH ARE
A PRODUCT OF INSTITUTIONAL
RACISM IN THE UNITED STATES.
>> ALL RIGHT, SENATOR BERNIE