Geoff:
Good evening and welcome to the
newshour.
Former president Donald Trump
says he's been notified that
he's a target in the special
counsel investigation into
efforts to overturn the 2020
election results, signaling that
he's likely to be charged with
federal crimes.
In a post on his truth social
account today, the former
president said he received the
notice Sunday night from special
counsel jack Smith, who is
investigating Mr. Trump's
actions in the aftermath of the
presidential election, including
the insurrection at the U.S.
Capitol on January 6, 2021.
Carrie Johnson covers the
justice department for NPR, and
joins us now.
Thank you for being with us.
Donald Trump set on social media
today that he was given what he
called a very short four days to
report to the grand jury for
testimony.
He said he expects to be charged
because such a move "Almost
always means an arrest and
indictment."
Is he right?
What more do we know about this
letter, what are the
implications?
Carrie: Most of what we know
comes from Donald Trump himself.
In many cases, targets of
federal criminal investigations
get the opportunity to present
their own evidence to a grand
jury before the prosecution asks
the grand juror's to go out and
indict an individual.
It appears that is what is
taking place here.
Trump's lawyers have got to
notice, that trump, if he wants
to, can appear before the grand
jury as late as Thursday this
week.
Otherwise, the doj will proceed
and perhaps seek a federal
criminal indictment of him for
charges related to the January 6
insurrection.
We don't know exactly what those
charges are.
We know the doj has been
investigating classically these
alleged fake slates of electors
from seven different swing
states that were supposed to
replace the legitimate electors
that would have cast their
ballots for Biden and Harris in
2020.
We also know the doj has been
investigating fundraising based
on bogus election fraud claims
trump and his affiliates made.
The nature of these charges
remains unknown for now.
Geoff: What's the expectation
for how the special counsel will
handle both cases?
The potential January 6 case in
Washington, D.C., we don't yet
know that, and the classified
documents case which is
unfolding in Florida?
Carrie: Remember when the
special counsel Jackson it was
appointed last November?
He a two-part mandate.
That is where the two parts.
Smith largely absorbed ongoing
investigations with prosecutors
that had been on the job and
agents that have been on the job
for many months already.
In large part, those same
prosecutors and agents will
remain on those investigations
as the cases go to trial.
Jack Smith has enough human
beings to do his work in two
places at once, both Florida and
Washington, D.C.
Scheduling will be a
complication, as we will learn
more about in the coming weeks
and months.
Geoff: On the classified
documents case, there was a
pretrial hearing today to
-- where the parties involved
discussed a trial date and how
sensitive information would be
handled.
What did we learn from what
transpired today?
Carrie: Lawyers for former
president trump basically wanted
the judge, a judge that trump
appointed to the bench during
his presidency, to wait until
after the election, after
November 2024 to hold this
trial.
Whereas prosecutors for jack
Smith had been raring to go.
They want to go to trial this
December.
The judge did not make a ruling
from the bench.
She seemed to signal the trial
this year was too soon, given
the complexities and volumes of
clclsified information.
She also did not seem to want to
wait until November, December
2024 or even early 2025 to hold
the trial.
She's going to have to find a
time next year that things will
work out.
Geoff: You mentioned the
potential, or the active doj in
the fake electors scheme.
We learned the Michigan attorney
general filed charges against 16
people who signed paperwork
falsely claiming that Donald
Trump had won the 2020 election
as part of a scheme to overturn
the results.
What more can you tell us about
it?
Carrie: These are very serious
charges against Republican party
activists in Michigan.
They include conspiracy and
forgery.
Attorney general Damon Nessel
says these defendants allegedly
undermine the integrity of the
electoral process, and broke
state election law by meeting in
mid-december 2020 two sign these
fake certificates that they
later transmitted to the
congress and the national
archives.
Nessel apparently made a
referral to the federal justice
department of the same conduct
last year.
Because doj has not acted, she
went and did this herself.
There are at least two other
states that were investigating
similar accusations by these
fake slates of electors.
There could be more action to
come there too.
Geoff: Shifting our focus back
to the legal exposure involving
the former president, we have a
presidential election roughly 18
months away, we have Donald
Trump facing potentially
multiple indictments in Fulton
county, Georgia, the special
counsel indictments.
Do you have a sense of how the
timing will align, or is it too
early to tell?
Carrie: This is going to be a
massive air traffic control
problem for these judges in the
federal court system, state
court system.
Trump is scheduled for trial in
New York in March 2020 four on
those hush-money payments to
stormy Daniels.
Accounting allegations regarding
those hush-money payments.
We don't have a trial date as to
the mar-a-lago classified
documents charges, the Fulton
county grand jury in Georgia is
aggressively moving, acting as
early as August.
No trial date there.
And we have to wait and see what
happens in D.C. With this a
federal January 6 case.
It is possible the former
president could be indicted four
times this summer alone.
Whether those cases go to trial
before the election seems hard
at this point to predict.
Geoff: Carrie Johnson, a
pleasure to speak with you.
Thanks for being with us.
Carrie: Thank you.
♪♪