Amna: Lawmakers on capitol hill
are spotlighting recent ethics
concerns surrounding the highest
court in the land.
In a judiciary committee hearing
today, senators debated how to
address concerns involving
supreme court justices,
including whether they should
apply ethical guidelines to the
justices themselves.
Today's hearing focused on the
supreme court and ethics,
unfolded largely along partisan
lines with Democrats arguing the
, court has failed to uphold its
own code of conduct.
>> The court has repeatedly
proven it cannot police itself.
Amna: And Republicans accusing
Democrats of attacking the
court.
>> If you want to talk about
destroying the court, call --
count me out.
Amna: Unlike the guidelines
federal judges must adhere to,
the supreme court has no formal
ethics code, justices are meant
to police themselves.
But a series of recent reports,
documenting justices' failures
to disclose gifts and real
estate deals, has sparked
questions about possible
reforms.
Propublica reported in April
that justice Clarence Thomas
failed disclose hundreds of
thousands of dollars worth of
gifts, including luxury trips,
from a billionaire donor.
They later reported the same
donor purchased properties from
Thomas, including his mother's
home, which she still lives in
today.
And Neil Gorsuch sold a Colorado
property to the CEO of a law
firm and did not disclose that
he was a buyer.
In today's hearing, Democrats
argued lawmakers must now act.
>> The supreme court needs to's
-- to step up and fix this
themselves.
They have refused to for years
and because they will not act,
congress must.
Amna: But Republicans dismissed
the hearing as a liberal effort
to undermine the
conservative-leaning court.
>> The danger is not that robed
justices are operating without
ethics, it's that Democrats are
not winning every fight and they
find it intolerable.
Amna: Not in the hearing room,
John Roberts.
His letter included a statement
on the courts ethics signed by
all the justices.
Trust in the court is at record
low.
In a recent poll, more than six
in 10 Americans say they have
little to no confidence in the
court.
To help us explore these issues
of accountability, I am joined
by Amanda frost, uva law
professor.
She testified before congress
today.
We have learned about the gifts
to justice Thomas, justice
Gorsuch property sales.
From what you have seen, should
it have been information they
disclosed?
>> Yes.
They should clearly have been
disclosed.
They were ethics laws.
A problem is a lack of
transparency and the court is
not taking ethics obligations
seriously enough so whether
congress takes action through
legislation is not clear.
Amna: Is there context for the
conduct?
In history are there previous
concerns we could compare this
to?
>> In the 1960's one justice
took payments from a former
client, leading to his
resignation.
He returned the money.
He could not withstand the
scrutiny because he had been
paid while being a justice.
Amna: In 2016 when Ruth Bader
Ginsburg made comments
criticizing Donald Trump and
then had to come out and
apologize.
>> She violated ethics laws by
making the statements and she
apologized and retracted the
statements.
Justice Thomas is not alone, and
that's the problem.
We need the court to be more
accountable and all of the
justices to follow the laws.
Amna: What about justice Roberts
not appearing.
Should he have?
>> Absolutely.
I am disappointed he did not
take the opportunity to have
dialogue on this question and
justices testify, it's not
unusual.
They testify about matters
affecting the judiciary and I
think it would've been helpful
if he showed up.
Amna: Both Thomas and Gorsuch
are conservative.
Calls for accountability are
largely coming from Democrats
and the conversation seems to be
folding in a partisan arena.
>> Unfortunately.
I've been talking about this for
decades.
It should not be partisan.
Part of the problem is because
the court lacks transparency and
does not make clear what it does
to follow laws, the only way we
hear about stories is through
occasional investigative
reporting.
If the court itself was more
transparent it would prevent
these partisan issues from
arising.
Amna: What would transparency
look like?
What should happen?
>> I wish the court on its own
would adopt a court of conduct.
It's the only court in the
federal judiciary that does not
have one binding.
I wish they would do it.
If not, congress could compel
them to do so through
legislation and they would
hopefully quickly respond.
I hope that happens in the
future.
Right now it is unlikely but the
conversation is progressing and
I think that recent revelations
of unethical conduct have led
more people to think reform is
needed.
Amna: What does the code of
conduct calls for?
Specifically what do you want to
see when it comes to supreme
court justices?
>> It finds the lower court but
not the supreme court.
They could tweet that model as
needed.
It requires things like the
courts making sure they don't do
something that appears in proper
or is actually improper.
Be careful about who they speak
in front of, and get gifts from,
just be more conscious of the
fact that they are public
figures and deciding cases about
the legitimacy of the court.
Amna: When it comes to Americans
on the trust in the supreme
court, we know the trust has
been declining.
There is a recent poll that asks
people how they feel about the
court and 53% of Republicans say
they feel mostly confident.
24% of Democrats.
39% of independents.
When justice Alito was asked he
answered, what do you expect
when you are a day in and day
out, they are illegitimate and
engaging in all sorts of
unethical conduct.
They are doing this, they are
doing that.
Does criticism of the court
contribute to the credibility
problem?
>> There are many reasons why
they are losing the public
support.
But these ethical problems are a
self-inflicted wound.
If they were more transparent
and had an employee responsible
for advising on ethics, the
stories would go away or be
diminished so I feel like they
are injuring their own
reputation by not taking action.
Amna: Amanda frost joining us
today.
Thank you for being here.
>> Thank you for having me.