>> RELEVANT DISCUSSION
CERTAINLY.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> MAJOR INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES
HAVE CANCELED AND MODIFIED
HUNDREDS OF FLIGHTS DUE TO
CONCERN OVER THE ROLLOUT OF 5G
SERVICE.
THE FEDERAL AVIATION
ADMINISTRATION WARNED THAT THE
HYPED HIGH SPEED WIRELESS
SERVICE COULD INTERFERE WITH
AIRCRAFT TECHNOLOGY.
AT&T AND VERIZON ANNOUNCED THEY
HAVE DELAYED LAUNCHING 5G IN
SOME AIRPORTS.
AND JOINING US TO DISCUSS THE
CAUSE FOR CONCERN AND MORE ARE
RANSY BERRY, A PROFESSOR OF
ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING AT
NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY AND
JOSEPH SCHWIETRMAN
TRANSPORTATION SPECIALIST AND
PROFESSOR AT DePAUL
UNIVERSITY.
WELCOME.
RANDY, REMIND US WHAT 5G, OR
FIFTH GENERATION WIRELESS
TECHNOLOGY IS.
>> THIS IS THE NEXT ITERATION OF
THE TECHNOLOGY UNDERLYING YOUR
CELLPHONE.
CURRENTLY MOST OF US HAVE 4G OR
LTE.
5G IS THE NEXT VERSION OF THAT.
IT'S OFFERING HIGHER DATA RATES
AND OTHER ENHANCED FEATURES.
>> AND IT'S BECAUSE IT'S USING A
SPECTRUM OF RADIO FREQUENCY.
AND JOE, IN SHORT WHY ARE
AIRLINES SO CONCERNED ABOUT
CELLPHONE COMPANIES USING THIS
SO-CALLED C BAND SPECTRUM.
>> TOLERANCE FOR RISK OF AIR
TRAVEL HAS FALLEN WHERE RISKS
ARE NOT SEEN AS ACCEPTABLE.
AND WE HAVE UNKNOWNS FOR THE
AIRLINES.
REMINDS ME OF A DEBATE OVER
CELLPHONE CALLS AT HIGH ALTITUDE
BECAUSE OF UNCERTAINTY.
WE HAVE A MASSIVE ROLL OUT OF A
5G PROGRAM BY TWO BIG PROVIDERS
VERIZON AND AT&T AND THE
AIRLINES HAD NOT BEEN GIVEN
CREDIBLE EVIDENCE THAT THERE WAS
NO INTERFERENCE AND LOW
VISIBILITY LANDING.
YOU MULTIPLY THAT BY THE NUMBER
OF FLIGHTS WE HAVE PER DAY AND
THE RISK WAS SEEN AS
UNACCEPTABLE.
>> THE CONCERN IS THE ALTIMETER
WHICH OBVIOUSLY PILOTS RELY ON
TO LAND IN LOW VISIBILITY AND.
RANDY BERRY, HOW MUCH EVIDENCE
IS THERE THAT CELLULAR USE IN
THIS SPECTRUM RF SPECTRUM WILL
IMPACT THOSE ALTIMETERS?
>> THERE'S I WOULD SAY
THERE'S --
I HAVE NOT SEEN A LOT OF HARD
EVIDENCE.
THERE IS A LOT OF DISCUSSION
ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE.
THE BANDS ARE SEPARATED.
THERE IS ABOUT 200 MEGA HURST
BAND BETWEEN THE C BAND AND WHAT
THE ALTIMETERS USE AND THE
QUESTION IS IS THAT ENOUGH?
I THINK THE FTC AND THE WIRELESS
PROVIDERS TEND TO THINK IT IS.
THE AIRLINES OBVIOUSLY DO NOT.
>> AND JOSEPH SCHWIETRMAN TODAY
THEY PUT A PAUSE THEY AGREED TO
A PAUSE IN THE 5G ROLL OUT
AROUND CERTAIN AIRPORTS.
WHICH AIRPORTS AND WHAT ARE THE
PARAMETERS OF THE PAUSE?
>> THIS WAS A REMARKABLE THING
WE HAD A GAME OF CHICKEN WHERE
BOTH SIDES WERE ELEVATING THE
RHETORIC ABOUT MASS CHAOS IN THE
AIR AND THE COMPROMISE BEING WE
ARE NOT GOING TO DEPLOY AT
CERTAIN AIRPORTS AND THAT IS
HOPEFUL TO AVOID THE CHAOS TODAY
AND INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES FELT
THAT THE CUTBACKS DID NOT GIVE
THEM ENOUGH ASSURANCE.
AIRLINES FLYING THE 777 WHICH IS
THE BIG PLANE USUALLY 550 SEATS
SCRAMBLED TO FIND A DIFFERENT
AIRPLANE WHEN THEY FELT THE
RISKS WERE LESS AND LOTS OF
CANCELLATIONS BECAUSE OF THE
AMBIGUITY IN THE AIR.
>> AND CONCERNS FROM DENNIS
TAJER PILOTS UNION HE WEIGHED IN
WITH US TODAY.
>> I MAY GO TO AN AIRPORT LIKE
CHICAGO LAGUARDIA IS GOING TO BE
PROTECTED AIRPORTS.
BUT IF I HAVE TO DIVERT SOMEONE
FOR AN EQUIPMENT ISSUE OR
WEATHER IS NOT GOOD AT EITHER
PLACE, I'M GOING TO GO TO A 5G
AIRPORT I HAVE A LOT TO LOOK AT
AND A LOT OF DISTRACTIONS THAT
WE REALLY FEEL ARE UNNECESSARY.
THEY ARE TRYING TO JUST ROLL
THIS OUT AGAIN, IN A METERED WAY
WHICH IS BETTER THAN FULSOME
LIKE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT AND
SAY CAPTAIN LET US KNOW IF THERE
ARE ISSUES.
THAT IS NOT HOW WE DO BUSINESS
IN THE AVIATION WORLD.
>> WHAT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED
DURING THE PAUSES TO MAKE FOLKS
LIKE DENNIS TAJER FEEL
COMFORTABLE?
>> COMING BACK, THE REAL
QUESTION IS IS THIS DOES IT
INTERFERENCE LEAK OVER IN A
SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT AROUND THE
AIRPORTS FOR 5G IS DEPLOYED THAT
IT WOULD CAUSE THE ALTIMETERS
NOT TO WORK CORRECTLY.
AND I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE
MORE TESTING.
THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE STUDIES
OF THAT TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL
CONFIDENT.
>> AND JOSEPH SCHWIETRMAN IT IS
NOT NEW BECAUSE VERIZON AND AT&T
THEY SPENT $80 BILLION FOR THE
RIGHT TO USE THIS FREQUENCY TO
LAUNCH 5G.
WHY ARE THESE CONCERNS COMING TO
A HEAD NOW WHEN IT'S ROLLING
OUT?
>> 21 COMPANIES, 81 BILLION
DOLLARS SPENT THEY WANT TO SEE A
RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENT AND
THE F.A.A. DID ALLOW A PUSH FOR
DEPLOYMENT TO BE DELAYED AND IT
BROUGHT US BACK TO WHERE WE
WERE.
I THINK WE'RE SEEING THAT THE
BALL DROPPED THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT NOT TO SPACE THIS OUT
TO HAVE CREDIBLE TESTING AND I
THINK WHAT IS REALLY SAD ABOUT
THIS, IS JUST THE NUMBER OF
PASSENGERS THAT ARE GOING TO BE
DISRUPTED DURING THIS UPWARDS OF
32,000 ON EMIRATES ALONE HAVE
BEEN AFFECTED.
WHY THIS DID NOT HAPPEN A MONTH
AGO WITH THE PHASED ROLL OUT
REALLY IS ON THE MINDS OF A LOT
OF PEOPLE THAT THIS DIDN'T DO
ANY SERVICE TO OUR NATIONAL
AVIATION SYSTEM.
>> THE INTERNATIONAL FLIGHTS,
ESPECIALLY FLYING THE 777 ARE
THE ONES CANCELING FLIGHTS AND
WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS
FOR THEM.
RANDY TELL US MORE ABOUT 5G.
THE PROPONENTS SAY IT'S GOING TO
SPUR MORE SELF-DRIVING CARS AND
IT'S GOING TO REVOLUTIONIZE
HEALTHCARE HOW DOES THAT CONNECT
TO ALL THE BIG ADVANCES?
>> TO SUPPORT THOSE BIG ADVANCES
YOU NEED MORE DATA RATES.
YOU NEED TO SUPPORT HIGHER DATA
RATES AND FOR THAT YOU NEED MORE
SPECTRUM AND THAT IS WHAT LED TO
THE C BANDS ONE OF THE BANDS ONE
OF MANY BANDS THAT 5G USES IT'S
NOT THE ONLY ONE BUT THAT IS THE
KEY INGREDIENT TO REALIZE THE
PROMISES YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
>> JOSEPH SCHWIETRMAN IF YOU HAD
TO GUESS WILL THERE BE A
RESOLUTION THAT MAKES EVERYBODY
HAPPY?
ONE THING I READ ABOUT THEY WANT
TO WAIT FOR THE OLDER ALTIMETERS
TO RETIRE AND NEWER ALTIMETERS
WILL NOT FACE THE SAME PROBLEM
OF INTERFERENCE?
>> I THINK THAT IS RIGHT.
WHAT WE SEE THERE IS A LOT OF
PATHWAYS TO KEEP THE AVIATION
SYSTEM RUNNING WHILE BENEFITING
5G.
FOR ONE MOST OF THE PROBLEM ARE
TOWERS TWO MILE FROM AN
AIRPLANE.
AIRPORT.
AND THE F.A.A. IS CERTIFYING
PLANES NOT AT RISK.
WHY IT DIDN'T HAPPEN A FEW WEEKS
AGO I DON'T KNOW.
AIRLINES FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH
CERTAIN EQUIPMENT AND THE 777
MIGHT BE OK.
I THINK WE'LL SEE A FRENZIED
EFFORT WITH COMPROMISE BUT IT IS
A SHAME IT GOT TO THIS LEVEL
FROM WHAT I CAN TELL FOUR OR
FIVE BIG INTERNATIONAL PLANES
CANCELED IN THE CHICAGO AREA.
THERE'S PAIN BEING FELT.
>> A LOT OF CATCHING UP TO DO IN