SUSAN THANKS VERY MUCH INDEED.
LOOK WHOSE HERE NOW, LEGENDARY
AND BILLIONAIRE INVESTOR CARL
ICAHN WHO JOINS ME BY PHONE.
CARL, LOOK YOU’VE HAD 45 YEARS
IN THE INVESTMENT BUSINESS,
YOU’VE SEEN ALL KINDS OF STUFF.
IS IT CORRECT TO SAY THAT
MARKETS HISTORICALLY BOUNCED
BACK QUICKLY FROM OVERSEAS
MILITARY ACTION?
WILL THEY BOUNCE BACK QUICKLY
THIS TIME, CARL?
>> YEAH, THAT’S A BIG QUESTION,
STUART.
I THINK THAT THIS MARKET
POSSIBLY IS OVERREACTED TO
WHAT’S GOING ON IN THE UKRAINE,
BUT I DON’T THINK THAT’S THE
PROBLEM WE HAVE.
I THINK THE PROBLEM WE REALLY
HAVE IS THERES A MUCH DEEPER ONE
WHICH IS INFLATION, AND I KNOW A
LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THAT, SO I’M
JUST NOT GIVING YOU NEW NEWS,
BUT I THINK INFLATION IS A MAJOR
PROBLEM FOR US, AND I THINK THAT
IS WHAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
I LIVED THROUGH IT IN THE 70S
AND IT’S NOT EASY TO PUT THAT GE
NIE BACK NOT BOTTLE.
STUART: CARL I WAS IN THE 70S
TOO AND I REMEMBER VERY WELL, I
REMEMBER INFLATION TOOK OFF
TOWARDS THE END OF THE DECADE,
AND REALLY STAYED WITH US FOR A
VERY LONG TIME, AND IT WASN’T
UNTIL THE PAUL VOLCKER AT THE
FEDERAL RESERVE RAISED INTEREST
RATES DRAMATICALLY THAT WE VENT
GOT RID OF INFLATION.
DO WE HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING
AGAIN THIS TIME AROUND?
>> I BELIEVE THAT EVENTUALLY,
IT’S GOING TO COME TO IT BUT I
CAN’T TELL YOU WHEN, I DON’T
THINK ANYBODY CAN PREDICT THE
EXACT TIMING OF THE MARKET,
AND ANYBODY TRYING TO DO IT IS
JUST, I THINK, WASTING TIME, BUT
I THINK LOOK AT A MACRO PICTURE
AND IF YOU LIVED THIS BEFORE,
AND YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT AT
THIS POINT, WE’RE SORT OF IN A
PRECIPICE, WHEN IT’S GOING TO
HAPPEN THOUGH, COULD BE THREE
YEARS, FIVE YEARS, YOU DON’T
KNOW, OR THREE DAYS.
I THINK THAT A CATALYST WAS THIS
RUSSIAN UKRAINIAN BUT I
THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET
THROUGH THAT.
STUART: WHEN YOU SAY WE’RE AT A
PRECIPICE DO YOU MEAN LIKE ON
THE EDGE OF A HUGE SELL-OFF?
>> WELL, WE ALREADY HAD A
SELL-OFF, SO YOU ALREADY HAD 10%
, BUT I DON’T WANT TO BE AN
ALARMIST, BECAUSE NOBODY IS
SURE WHEN THIS IS GOING TO
HAPPEN, BUT YOU’RE BUILDING
TOWARD IT.
YOU CAN’T KEEP PUMPING MONEY
INTO AN ECONOMY.
YOU CAN’T KEEP JUST PRINTING UP
MONEY.
I MEAN THEN IT GETS TO THE
LOGICAL CONCLUSION WHICH IS
ABSURD THAT NOBODY HAS TO WORK.
AND INDEED, SOME OF THE LEFT
WING DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING THAT
IF YOU FEEL LIKE WORKING, WORK.
IF YOU DON’T, DON’T, AND YOU
CAN’T HAVE THAT, BY DEFINITION
YOU CAN’T HAVE IT, SO EVENTUALLY
, WE’RE PUMPING MONEY
IN, SOME STOCKS ARE PRICED IN A
CERTAIN FASHION, AND IT JUST
ACTUALLY MAKES NO SENSE
CONSIDERING THE PRICES OF THESE
COMPANIES.
STUART: ARE YOU A BITCOIN OR A
CRYPTO KIND OF GUY?
>> LOOK, I’LL TELL YOU
SOMETHING, I’VE STUDIED THEM, I
LOOKED AT THEM.
I CLEARLY ADMIT I CAN’T
UNDERSTAND, I REALLY DON’T
UNDERSTAND AND IF I CAN’T
UNDERSTAND SOMETHING, YOU KNOW,
I’M AN OLD SCHOOL GUY SO I BUY
VALUE, SO I CAN’T UNDERSTAND
WHAT IT IS.
I DON’T SAY THEY’RE NO GOOD OR
THEY CAN’T BE GOOD.
I’M NOT TELLING PEOPLE TO SELL
THEM, BUT I CAN’T BUY SOMETHING
I DON’T UNDERSTAND.
STUART: I’M LAUGHING, CARL,
BECAUSE YOU AND I ARE PRETTY
MUCH THE SAME GENERATION AND I’M
SITTING ON THE SET WITH A YOUNG
LADY WHOSE HALF MY AGE, AND
SHE’S VERY ENJOYING THIS
CONVERSATION ABOUT BITCOIN,
BECAUSE WE’VE HAD THIS
CONVERSATION BEFORE.
I DON’T UNDERSTAND IT TO ME IT’S
A GAMBLING CHIP BUT THERE YOU GO
ONE LAST ONE IF I MAY, CARL, HBO
RELEASED THAT
DOCUMENTARY ABOUT YOU AND IN IT,
YOU SAY THERE IS "NO DEMOCRACY
IN CORPORATE AMERICA."
DO YOU WANT TO SPELL THAT OUT,
WHAT’S WRONG WITH CORPORATE
DEMOCRACY HERE?
>> WELL IT’S A REAL PROBLEM,
AND I THINK, STUART, THAT YOU
HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD HERE.
WE DO NOT HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY.
THERE ARE GOOD COMPANIES, I WANT
TO PREFACE IT, THERE ARE GOOD
COMPANIES, WELL-RUN COMPANIES,
CEO’S BUT THE REASON OVER THE
YEARS WE MADE SO MUCH MONEY
IS GOING IN AND CLEANING UP THE
MESS, IN A LOT OF THESE
COMPANIES OR AT LEAST GIVING
ADVICE THAT HAS WORKED WELL FOR
THEM.
WE DON’T HAVE A SYSTEM.
EVEN POLITICALLY, WHICH IS
FLAWED IN MANY WAYS, IF YOU
DON’T LIKE THE PRESIDENT, YOU
GET RID OF HIM IN FOUR YEARS.
YOU HAVE AN ELECTION, SOME
PEOPLE ARGUE HOW FAIR THE
ELECTION IS BUT AT LEAST YOU
HAVE IT.
HERE, THERE’S NO ELECTION.
IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO
HAVE A PROXY FIGHT, AND
UNFORTUNATELY, THE SEC IS MAKING
IT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT, SO I
THINK THAT ONE OF OUR PROBLEMS
IS THAT YOU HAVE PEOPLE RUNNING
OUR COMPANIES THAT ARE NOT
EQUIPPED TO RUN THEM.
THEY ARE OVER THEIR HEADS BUT
YOU CAN’T GET RID OF THEM.
IT’S A PRINCIPLE THREE TIMES
REMOVED AND AS A RESULT YOU
DON’T PRODUCE AS MUCH GOODS AS
YOU COULD IN OUR ECONOMY.
YOU ABSOLUTELY AREN’T USING THE
POWER OF THESE COMPANIES.
YOU DON’T USE THE PRODUCTIVITY
OF THEM.
AS A RESULT, AND THIS IS NOT THE
ONLY REASON FOR INFLATION,
BUT THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS,
A MAJOR REASON THAT WE’RE NOT
PRODUCTIVE, AND AS A RESULT YOU
HAVE INFLATION, AND IT WOULD
TAKE ME AN HOUR OR TWO TO GO
INTO ALL OF THE OTHER
MANIFESTATIONS OF THIS PROBLEM
WE HAVE.
STUART: WE GOT THAT PROBLEM.
>> SO WE HAVE TO REALLY CHANGE
THE SYSTEM IN A LOT OF WAYS AND
I THINK WE’RE GOING IN THE WRONG
DIRECTION TOWARD IT, NOT IN THE
RIGHT DIRECTION, AND NOW, IN
FACT, I DON’T THINK THAT’S THE
TROUBLE WITH CORPORATE
DEMOCRACY, BUT THE PROBLEM WE
HAVE TODAY IS THAT WE ARE GOING
TO HAVE MORE AND MORE, WE HAVE
INFLATION IN OIL PRICES.
I MEAN, A YEAR AGO, JUST A YEAR
AGO, OIL, WE WERE BUYING OIL A
THE MINUS $35.
STUART: I REMEMBER.
>> WE NEEDED STORAGE AT ONE OF
THE REFINERIES, BUT WE OWN A BIG
PIECE OF.
WHAT I’M SAYING IS NOW LOOK AT
IT $100 NOBODY WOULD BET ON THAT
AND REALLY, ONE OF THE REASONS
IS BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THAT
YOU’RE PAYING A TAX, THE
CONSUMERS ARE PAYING A HUGE
TAX OF OVER $40 BILLION IN
SOMETHING CALLED RINS, AND THEY
WERE PUT INTO EFFECT IN 2005 TO
MAKE ENERGY INDEPENDENCE.
STUART: CARL I’VE GOT TO JUMP IN
, I’M TERRIBLY SORRY, I’M
COMING AT A HARD BREAK, YOU KNOW
HOW THAT WORKS SO I’VE GOT TO
TAKE A COMMERCIAL BREAK BUT I
WANT TO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
BEING ON THE SHOW, CARL,
YOU’RE AN ICON.
YOU’VE HEARD THAT BEFORE, COME
BACK AND SEE US AGAIN, SOON,