>>> WELCOME BACK, I’M STEPHANIE RUHLE.
RUHLE. A RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY THEORIST
LINKED TO ROGER STONE TELLS NBC
HE BELIEVES HE WILL SOON BE
INDICTED FOR SURGERY.
JOINING ME NOW, ANNA SCHECTER,
WHO SPOKE WITH CORSI.
HE TOLD YOU HE’S AFRAID HE’S
GOING TO BE INDICTED FOR
PERJURY.
PERJURY. SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING MAYBE
THIS IS A FAKE, PERJURY FOR
WHAT.
WHAT. >> HE EXPLAINED HE SAT FOR 40
HOURS.
HOURS. THERE WERE NINE FBI AGENTS, SIX
PROSECUTORS.
PROSECUTORS. HE FELT LIKE HE WAS BEING
GRILLED.
GRILLED. THEY GAVE HIM A BINDER, 6 TO 8
INCHES THICK.
INCHES THICK. THEY KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM.
EVERYTHING HE’D SAID TO ROGER
STONE, ABOUT JULIAN ASSANGE AND
WIKILEAKS.
WIKILEAKS. WE REPORTED LAST MONTH HE
ACTUALLY COMMUNICATED WITH THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN AFTER THE OCTOBER
SURPRISE, THE WIKILEAK DUMPS OF
JOHN PODESTA E-MAILS.
IN A SENSE TAKING CREDIT FOR IT.
HE EXPLAINED HE ACTUALLY FIGURED
OUT ON HIS OWN THE PODESTA
E-MAILS WERE COMING.
HE SAW, HEY, NOT SO MANY JOHN
PODESTA E-MAILS.
PODESTA E-MAILS. >> IS HE CLAIRVOYANT?
>> THAT IS HIS DEFENSE, THAT HE
DID NOT HAVE ADVANCE KNOWLEDGE.
THAT’S THE HEART OF IT, IS DID
HE HAVE ADVANCE KNOWLEDGE FROM
ASSANGE OR ANOTHER SOURCE, PASS
IT TO ROGER STONE, OR PASS IT TO
THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THAT
WOULD BE COLLUSION BUT WE’RE FAR
FROM THAT.
FROM THAT. >> FAR FROM COLLUSION BUT HE
TOLD YOU THIS ABOUT THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL, QUOTE, THEY HAVE ALL
YOUR E-MAILS.
YOUR E-MAILS. THEY’RE VERY GOOD AT THE PERJURY
TRAP.
TRAP. >> HE’S SUGGESTING HE GOT
TRIPPED UP.
TRIPPED UP. HIS MIND WAS MUSH AFTER 40 HOURS
OF WHAT HE CALLED INTERROGATION,
THAT HE MUST HAVE SLIPPED UP --
>> DID HE HAVE A LAWYER WITH
HIM?
HIM? >> HE DID.
>> SO HE THINKS HE SLIPPED UP,
IT WAS 40 HOURS OF HIGH
PRESSURE.
PRESSURE. WHY DOES HE THINK HE’S BEING
INDICTED IN THE NEXT DAY?
>> HE SAYS HE DOESN’T BELIEVE HE
EVER MET JULIANNE ASSANGE OR HAD
ADVANCE KNOWLEDGE, BUT PERHAPS
SOME OF THOSE COMMUNICATIONS OR
TEXTS OR E-MAILS HE HANDED OVER
TO INVESTIGATORS MIGHT INDICATE
OTHERWISE.
OTHERWISE. >> BUT HOW DOES THIS LINK BACK
TO THE CAMPAIGN?
HE WAS NOT A CENTRAL PLAYER.
THERE ARE LOTS OF FRINGE
RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY THEORIES
WHO ARE ALWAYS TROLLING FOR
STUFF.
STUFF. DOES THIS LINK HIM TO THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN?
CAMPAIGN? >> NOT NECESSARILY BUT THIS ALL
GOES TO THE ROGER STONE CIRCLE
OF THE SORT OF CHARACTERS WHO
ARE COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK
AND THEY’RE GOING THROUGH
STONE’S COMMUNICATIONS, AND THEY
PROBABLY FOUND CORSI AND STONE
COMMUNICATIONS IN AUGUST,
SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, THAT CRUCIAL
TIME, RIGHT BEFORE AND RIGHT
DURING THAT WIKILEAKS DROP OF
JOHN PODESTA E-MAILS.
>> I NEED TO BRING IN MSNBC
LEGAL ANALYST.
LEGAL ANALYST. FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR GLEN
KERR
KERR KERRSHNER.
KERRSHNER. WHAT WOULD THE STRATEGY BE BY
INDICTING CORSI?
INDICTING CORSI? >> I THINK MUELLER’S STRATEGY IS
A LOT LIKE WHAT WE SAW HIM DO
WITH RICK GATES WHEN HE WORKED
RICK GATES AS A WITNESS, THEN AS
A DEFENDANT, THEN A COOPERATOR.
WHY, WELL, ONE, RICK GATES
COMMITTED CRIMES, BUT I SEE SOME
PARALLELS HERE.
PARALLELS HERE. BETWEEN THE MUELLER TEAM GOING
AFTER JEROME CORSI AS A VEHICLE
TO GET TO ROGER STONE AND
PERHAPS BEYOND.
PERHAPS BEYOND. WHEN I HEARD ANNA’S REPORTING
THAT JEROME CORSI GIVES ANSWERS
LIKE I CAN’T RECALL --
>> YOU KNOW IF YOU’VE MET
JULIANNE ASSANGE.
JULIANNE ASSANGE. >> YOU PROBABLY TOOK A SELFIE
WITH HIM.
WITH HIM. WHEN I HEAR THAT, IT’S OBVIOUS
THE INVESTIGATORS AND THE
PROSECUTORS ON THE MUELLER TEAM
BELIEVE THAT CORSI IS LYING TO
THEM.
THEM. I CAN TELL YOU, HERE’S THE
CHALLENGE, AN IMPORTANT WITNESS
WHO IS LYING TO THEM, YOU KNOW,
IF THIS IS THE LINE OF TRUTH,
THEY WILL TRY TO PUSH AND PUSH
AND PUSH UNTIL THEY GET THAT
WITNESS RIGHT TO THE LINE OF
TRUTH.
TRUTH. AND FRANKLY IF YOU DON’T GET
THEM THERE, THEY’LL GET HIM FOR
PERJURY OR FALSE STATEMENTS AND
TRY TO SQUEEZE TRUTH OUT OF HIM
THAT WAY.
THAT WAY. >> MAYBE I’M JUST AN ABSOLUTE
DOPE BECAUSE ROGER STONE HAS A
THEORY.
THEORY. HE SAYS THIS, DR. CORSI STRIKES
ME AS A MAN WHO HAS BEEN
SQUEEZED HARD BUT REFUSES TO DO
ANYTHING BUT TELL THE TRUTH,
WHICH IS WHY THEY MAY BE
INDICTING HIM.
INDICTING HIM. ALL HE’S DONE IS TELL THE TRUTH
SO MAYBE HE’LL GET INDICTED.
LET’S JUST SAY THAT’S ME.
IF I WERE TO TELL THE TRUTH,
THERE’S NOTHING I’D BE INDICTED
FOR.
FOR. >> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. IF YOU’RE TELLING THE TRUTH,
THEN PROSECUTORS ARE NOT GOING
TO BRING CHARGES AGAINST YOU.
RELYING ON ROGER STONE’S TAKE
AGAINST SOMEONE ELSE’S
CREDIBILITY I THINK IS A DICEY
PROPOSITION
PROPOSITION PROPOSITION.
PROPOSITION. AGAIN, I THINK ANNA WAS
REPORTING CORSI’S EXPLANATION
FOR HOW HE KNEW, WHEN AND IF
PODESTA’S E-MAILS WOULD --
>> DO YOU MEAN THE PSYCHIC
CONNECTION?
CONNECTION? >> HE’S TRYING TO PETDDLE THIS A
THAT.
THAT. I THINK THAT’S WHY THE MUELLER
TEAM IS TRYING TO GET TO THE
ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
ABSOLUTE TRUTH. THEN THEY CAN AND SHOULD INDICT.
>> ABOUT WHAT I TALKED JUST A
FEW MINUTES AGO, THE STATE OF
MARYLAND IS PLANNING TO ASK A
FEDERAL JUDGE TO DECLARE ROD
ROSENSTEIN ACTING ATTORNEY
GENERAL.
GENERAL. HOW IS THIS PLAYING OUT?
>> THIS IS AN INTERESTING ONE
BECAUSE THERE’S SOMETHING CALLED
THE POLITICAL QUESTION DOCTRINE.
WHAT THAT STANDS FOR IS WHEN A
POLITICAL DECISION IS TAKEN BY
AN ADMINISTRATION, THE COURTS
ARE LOATHE TO JUMP INTO IT AND
BEGIN TO LITIGATE THAT ISSUE.
FOR EXAMPLE IF SOMEBODY JUST
REALLY DIDN’T LIKE THE IDEOLOGY
OF A PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE, WELL,
GUESS WHAT, THAT’S THE
PRESIDENT’S CALL.
PRESIDENT’S CALL. THE COURTS WILL NOT INTERVENE.
WE HAVE AN ACTING ATTORNEY
WHO -- BY MOST ACCOUNTS IS AN
UNLAWFUL APPOINTMENT.
UNLAWFUL APPOINTMENT. I AGREE WITH NEIL AND I AGREE
WITH GEORGE CONWAY.
CONCLUDING THIS VIOLATES THE
CONSTITUTION.
CONSTITUTION. I THINK THAT’S A WINNING
ARGUMENT.
ARGUMENT. EVEN THOUGH TYPICALLY, THESE
KIND OF PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATIONS
ARE POLITICAL QUESTIONS THAT THE
COURT WILL NOT VENTURE INTO.
I ACTUALLY THINK THE STATE OF
MARYLAND MIGHT HAVE STANDING,
WHICH JUST MEANS THEY MIGHT
ACTUALLY HAVE A LEGAL REASON TO
BRING THIS SUIT.
>> BECAUSE UNTIL NOW, I READ
WHAT NEIL WROTE.
YOU GUYS ARE LEGAL SCHOLARS.
YOU DON’T MAKE THESE DECISIONS.
IS THERE A LEGAL BASIS.
AS FAR AS REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP,
ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO COULD
STAND IN THE WAY AND SAY NOT SO
FAST MR. PRESIDENT, THEY HAVEN’T
SAID ANYTHING.
SAID ANYTHING. >> WELL, YES.
I THINK OVERSIGHT IS COMING.
IT’S NOT COMING INTO JANUARY
PERHAPS.
PERHAPS. ONCE THE NEW CONGRESS IS SWORN
IN.
IN. I DO THINK THERE’S A LEGAL
BASIS.
BASIS. I THINK THE COURTS WILL SAY
WE’RE TYPICALLY NOT INCLINED TO
GET INVOLVED BUT IN IS AN
UNLAWFUL APPOINTMENT, THAT COULD
COMPROMISE EVERY SINGLE THING
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DOES
EVERY DAY.
EVERY DAY. THAT WILL HAVE A RIPPLE EFFECT
AND GIVE ALL LITIGANTS AN
OPPORTUNITY TO ATTACK WHAT THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS DOING
IN THEIR INVESTIGATIONS AND
PROSECUTORS.
PROSECUTORS. SO I THINK THIS IS ONE THE
COURTS MAY TAKE UP.
>> WHEN YOU SAY OVERSIGHT IS