>>> NOW TO A NEW REPORT THAT
OFFERS AN UNPRECEDENTED LOOK
INTO HOW THE WEALTHIEST
AMERICANS ARE ABLE TO WORK
AROUND THE SYSTEM AND PAY NEXT
TO NOTHING IN TAXES.
NBC NEWS WASHINGTON
CORRESPONDENT HELEN JACKSON HAS
THE DETAILS.
>> Reporter: THEYRE THE BIGGEST
BILLIONAIRES IN AMERICA BEHIND
BRANDS LIKE AMAZON AND TESLA.
THEIR PERSONAL FORTUNES
ENORMOUS.
BUT TURNS OUT THEIR TAX BILLS IN
SOME CASES, ARE NOT.
NOT EVEN CLOSE.
AS NEWLY REVEALED RECORDS SHOW
EXACTLY HOW THE ULTRA RICH CAN
WORK THE SYSTEM TO PAY NOTHING
IN INCOME TAX IN CERTAIN YEARS.
THE NEW REPORT PRODUCED BY THE
NONPROFIT NEWS ORGANIZATION
PROPUBLICA.
>> WHAT WEVE SHOWN IS THAT THE
SYSTEM IS UPSIDE DOWN.
THAT THE ULTRA WEALTHY PAY LESS
IN TAX THAN THE AVERAGE PERSON.
>> Reporter: IN 2018, FOR
EXAMPLE, ELON MUSK PAID NO
FEDERAL INCOME TAX.
NEITHER DID JEFF BEZOS IN 2007
OR 2011, THE SAME YEAR HE
CLAIMED A $4,000 CHILD TAX
CREDIT AND RENOWNED INVESTOR
WARREN BUFFETT AVOIDED THE MOST
TAX.
>> AS SHOCKING AS IT IS, NOTHING
THEY DID IS ILLEGAL.
EVERYTHING THAT THEY DID IS IN
KEEPING WITH OUR TAX CODE.
AND THE BASIC REASON, WE TAX
INCOME, NOT WEALTH.
>> Reporter: RICH PEOPLE OFTEN
GROW THEIR FORTUNES THROUGH
STOCKS, REAL ESTATE OR COMPANY S
SO THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY TACKS
UNTIL THEY SELL.
AND THEY CAN OFFSET THEIR INCOME
IN OTHER WAYS, TOO.
MEANING ITS LEGAL TO BE WORTH A
LOT AND PAY A LITTLE.
>> THIS WILL START A DEBATE THAT
IS WELL NEEDED IN AMERICA.
>> Reporter: PROPUBLICA POINTS
OUT IN SOME YEARS THE
BILLIONAIRES DID PAY HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS IN TAXES DEPENDING ON
THEIR INVESTMENTS.
BEZOS AND MUSK DID NOT RESPOND
TO US FOR COMMENT BUT BUFFETT,
WHO HAS CALLED FOR MORE TAX ON
THE WEALTHIEST
NOW THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT IS
REFERRING AN INVESTIGATION OF
THE UNAUTHORIZED DISCLOSURE OF
THIS CONFIDENTIAL MATERIAL TO
ITS INSPECTOR GENERAL, THE FBI
AND THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR D.C.
THE REPORT ADDING FUEL TO THE
FIRE FOR DEMOCRATS LIKE
ELIZABETH WARREN, PUSHING FOR A
WEALTH TAX.
>> WHAT THIS SHOWS IS THAT ITS
ONLY HARD-WORKING, MIDDLE-CLASS
FAMILIES THAT ACTUALLY PAY
INCOME TAX.
THE BILLIONAIRES ALL KEEP THEIR
MONEY IN WEALTH ACCUMULATION AND
PAY NO TAXES AT ALL.
ITS JUST NOT RIGHT.
>> ALL RIGHT.
JOINING US NOW, AUTHOR OF
"WINNERS TAKE ALL," POLITICAL
ANALYST AND PUBLISHER OF THE
NEWSLETTER ENTITLED THE YANK.
AND COLUMNIST FOR INSIDER AND
HOST OF KCRWS "LEFT, RIGHT AND
CENTER," JOSH BARROW.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU BOTH.
HOW DO WE FIX THIS PROBLEM?
THERES CERTAINLY SOME OF THOSE
BILLIONAIRES WHO WOULD BE
PERFECTLY FINE PAYING THE CHILD
TAX CREDIT, BUT THEYRE NOT
BREAKING LAWS, BUT YET PERHAPS
THE LAWS ARE BEING CREATED IN
THEIR FAVOR BECAUSE OF A CYCLE
THAT MIGHT NEED TO BE STOPPED.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?
>> THIS IS NOT A STORY OF LAW
BREAKING, AS YOU SAY.
ITS A STORY OF A SOCIAL
CONTRACT BUILT ON MADNESS.
WHEN YOU TAX REGULAR PEOPLE AND
THEIR INCOME, WHICH IS
ESSENTIALLY A TAX ON WORKING FOR
A LIVING AND YOU DONT TAX
WEALTH, WHICH IS THE CORE OF
INCOME THAT RICH PEOPLE HAVE,
YOU END UP WITH THIS OUTCOME.
TO BE VERY CLEAR FOR FOLKS, TAX
ING BILLIONAIRES FOR THEIR
INCOME IS SORT OF LIKE AWARDING
MEDALS IN A PIE-EATING CONTEST
FOR SHOE SIZE.
YOURE SIMPLY MEASURING THE
WRONG THING.
ITS A MADE-UP NUMBER THEYRE
ABLE TO CONJURE.
WARREN BUFFETT EXPLAINED THIS TO
ME MANY YEARS AGO IN NEBRASKA.
I WANT MY INCOME TO BE $11
MILLION, MY NET WORTH MAY BE $SO
BILLION BUT I WANT MY INCOME TO
BE 11 MILLION THIS YEAR OR I
WANT MY INCOME TO BE ONE DOLLAR
OR LIKE DONALD TRUMP, I WANT MY
INCOME TO BE NEGATIVE THIS YEAR.
YOU CAN PICK A NUMBER, FIND AN
ACCOUNTANT AND THEY CAN SET UP
TRUSTS OR DO SOME KIND OF
PHILANTHROPY THING, DECLARE SOME
LOSS OR SELL SOME DEBT STOCK, DO
ANY NUMBER OF THINGS AND
LITERALLY GET TO WHATEVER INCOME
NUMBER YOU WANT.
WE NEED TO BE SERIES THAT WEALTH
IS THE INCOME THAT RICH PEOPLE
HAVE AND SHOULD BE TAXED THE
SAME WAY THAT REGULAR PEOPLES
INCOME IS TAXED IF NOT HIGHER.
WERE TAXING THE IDEA OF GOING
OUT OF YOUR HOUSE AND WORKING
EVERY DAY BUT WERE NOT TAX INGI
THE IDEA OF SITTING ON TOP OF
MOUNTAINS OF MONEY.
>> AT THE SAME TIME THIS CAN BE
OUTRAGEOUS AND COMPLETELY
UNSURPRISING THAT RICH PEOPLE
FIND WAYS NOT TO PAY TAXES.
WHAT DO YOU SEE IN THESE
NUMBERS?
>> I DONT FIND THE NUMBERS
SURPRISING.
JEFF BEZOS IS RICH BECAUSE HE
OWNS A BUNCH OF STOCK IN AMAZON.
IF HE DOESNT SELL THE STOCK, HE
DOESNT OWE CAPITAL GAIN THAT
YEAR.
ITS FINE PEOPLE PAY TAX ON THIS
STUFF LATER.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY PAY TAX
ON IT NEVER.
IF YOU HOLD ON TO IT UNTIL YOU
DIE
DIE, YOU PASS IT TO YOUR HEIRS,
AND NOBODY EVER PAYS INCOME TAX
ON THAT APPRECIATION.
THE POINT OF WEALTH IS THAT IT
GENERATES INCOME.
ITS THROWING OFF INCOME THAT IS
ALLOWING THESE PEOPLE TO SUPPORT
A TREMENDOUS STANDARD OF LIVING
DUE TO THE PHILANTHROPIES THEY
DO.
THE WAY WE DEFINE INCOME IS NOT
TRULY CAPTURING ALL THE INCOME
THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE RECEIVING.
WE CAN CHANGE THE RULES IN ORDER
TO DO THAT.
THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS ABLE
TO
WHEN DIE ITS TREATED AS THOUGH
THE STOCK IS SOLD F JEFF BEZOS
DIED TOMORROW THERE WOULD BE
ENORMOUS CAPITAL GAIN.
THERES PROBLEMS WITH THE WAY WE
CALCULATE CHARITABLE DEDUCTIONS.
IF YOU GIVE WAY APPRECIATED
STOCK ITS AS THOUGH YOU GET TO
DEDUCT TWICE THE APPRECIATION OF
THAT STOCK.
THATS NOT THE WAY THE SYSTEM
SHOULD WORK.
WE SHOULD REIGN THAT IN.
I WANT A CHARITABLE DEDUCTION.
I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
BILLIONAIRE PHILANTHROPY.
I JUST DONT WANT THEM TO DEDUCT
IT TWICE.
IF YOU LOOK AT WELFARE STATES,
THEY HAVE INCOME TAXES THAT HAVE
HIGHER RATES.
YOU COULD HAVE HIGHER RATES
ESPECIALLY IF YOU TIGHTEN THAT
STUFF UP AROUND CAPITAL GAINS
AND MADE IT HARDER TO AVOID EVER
PAYING THE TAX, MAKING IT
ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE.
THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS
PROPOSED TO TAKE THAT ALL THE
WAY UP FROM 43% FROM WHERE IT IS
IN THE LOW 20s.
THAT WOULD BE FEASIBLE IF YOU
HAVE THESE RULES THAT FORCE
THESE WEALTHY PEOPLE TO SOONER
OR LATER DECLARE THIS INCOME ON
THEIR TAXES.
THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO ABOUT
IT.
>> DO YOU THINK THERES ANY
ENERGY?
WERE TALKING ABOUT A REPUBLICAN
PARTY THAT DOESNT WANT TO ROLL
BACK ITS SIGNATURE TAX CUT FROM
2017.
IS THERE ANY MOTIVATION AM THIS
CONGRESS TO DO WHAT YOU JUST
ROLL OUT?
>> NOT IN THIS CONGRESS, I DONT
THINK.
DEMOCRATS CONTROL ANY PART OF
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN 2025,
THEYLL BE ABLE TO FORCE
REPUBLICANS TO THE TABLE, MUCH
AS OBAMA DID IN 2013, WHEN THERE
WERE BIG TAX INCREASES IN 2013
FROM THE PARTIAL EXPIRATION OF
THE BUSH TAX CUTS BECAUSE BARACK
OBAMA HAD BEEN RE-ELECTED.
THEY WILL HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY
IN 2025 TO SAY REPUBLICANS CANT
KEEP ALL OF THIS STUFF ON THEIR
TAX CUT AND HERE ARE THE THINGS
WE WANT TO DO.
>> RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD PAYS
NO TACKS, CHANGES THE DIE NAMYNA
AT ALL IN CONGRESS?
>> I HOPE SO BECAUSE I THINK
REGULAR PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING
THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN TAXES
THAT HURT THEM, THAT CAUSE THEM
NOT TO BUY SOMETHING FOR THEIR
CHILDREN THAT THEY OTHERWISE
WOULD HAVE BOUGHT ARE SEEING
SOMEONE ELSE NOT PAYING ANY AND
GETTING A $4,000 CHILD CREDIT.
AND SOME OF THE POLICIES JOSH
TALKED ABOUT ARE IMPORTANT BUT
FRANKLY WE NEED TO BE MORE